Fighting I Am Getting Nervous

[PrttyChngaderas]

So, I have three boys. Two were born on Thanksgiving 2010. They are brothers and were doing great with one another until I brought in another little guy. Sancho is a Peruvian. He is 6 weeks old now. The brothers are Ricardo and Guillermo and are the product of a Skinny pig dad and a Teddy mom.

Ricardo and Guillermo were in a 2x3 baby proofed cage. When I got Sancho, I built a 2x2 loft (also baby-proofed). It was my intention that when they got big enough to not fit through the grids, I would expand to a 3x3 with a 2x3 loft. It's all that space would allow for and with the killer ramp my husband built, the 3x3 would provide lots of floor space the loft would be full of cozies and the kitchen.

Last week, Guillermo and Ricardo started really fighting. They both LOVE the baby, it seems. But Ricardo and Guillermo keep fighting. They each show up with new scabs and bite marks every single day. their noses are torn up, one of Ricardo's eyes has a scab in the corner and when I was holding him yesterday, he seemed to act as if his body was tender. I checked everyone over. Guillermo and Ricardo are CLEARLY the ones starting a Guinea Pig UFC club. Sancho doesn't have so much as a single scab or bumpy spot. So, he is not in the UFC competition. I often see him cuddling with one of the bigger guys. But if he is doing his own thing, I hear Ricardo and Guillermo going at it and I am constantly splitting them up or giving one of them lap time/floor time.

Because of this, this weekend, I am rearranging my studio and will be building out their cage to a 2x6 with two small 1x1 kitchen areas. I will be making more cozies and adding some more toys, water bottles and nesting areas. There will be no loft so I can keep a closer eye on them. Still I am scared. What if this doesn't calm them down? I am super concerned. Guillermo is clearly the one that is kicking Ricardo's butt. Ricardo is just looking terrible. Guillermo is scabby and his nose is roughed up but he is not nearly as bad as Ricardo. Like I said, Sancho is completely unharmed.

This 2x6 is the best I can do for them. This is the biggest I can go and there will be no other options for more cages unless I put Guillermo in a Store cage and put him on the floor. THAT clearly doesn't seem like a good option.

I guess I will build out my cage and see how things go and wait a little bit. But, am I looking at possibly having to rehome one of them?

Input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[foggycreekcavy]

Unfortunately they are all going through adolescence. This is a time in their lives when they have hormones raging and they want to be top dog (guinea pig, in this case!) and until they get over it there will most likely be this back and forth dominance fighting.

A larger cage will be good--can you still have a loft? Sometimes it helps when you've got pigs going at each other. Also, make sure there are no houses/pigloos with only one entrance. It's when the guinea pigs get trapped that they get injured.

All this stress could also be causing a mite outbreak (hence the tenderness). Keep an eye out for excessive scratching and bald spots.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

*sighs* Stress can cause a mite outbreak? Even if no one had any to begin with? AY! AY! AY! I guess I better look for some vermectin (?sp) online. Good grief. Should I just go ahead and treat for mites?

Also, the loft is the biggest place they fight. There was actually blood on two of the walls. You know how in cartoons they show animals fighting and all you see is a big ball spinning with dust and fur flying? That's what it looks. I am finding fur and blood all over the place.

I just got most of the stuff moved around in my studio and I am getting ready to build out their cage. They are currently all sleeping in different parts of the cage. God, I hope it gets better. My heart actually aches to see them doing this to one another.

Thanks for the input. I really feel sick over all of this.

 

[Llamasomething]

If the loft was the main area for fighting, it was probably too small for them. A bigger loft may solve that, I know my boys would fight over the loft. They would even go so far as to sleep right at the top of the ramp to try to not let the other one through.

 

[MaggieMae]

My two girls fight over the second level constantly. They block the entrance, face off, even hair pull over it sometimes. The kitchen is a 1x4. They are perfectly find and happy in the bottom (a 3x4)

The best bet to stop the fighting is probably to have a second story that has two entrances and is two grids wide and however long. This would help fight the blocking the entrance and it gives them enough room to step around each other instead of trying to step "through" each other.

Good luck!!

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

That is what Guillermo and Ricardo would do! Stand at the top and keep each other out. However, they would lays let the baby through. Either they both really like him or he is good at minding his own darn business!

Well, the 2x6 is built. It's actually a 2x5.8. I was just an inch shy so I had to overlap the last grids about an inch and a half. I had to get rid of a bookcase and I am kinda hurting for space but, they are completely my responsibility and keeping them from killing each other was priority.

Anyway, they all played in the tub while I put clean fleece in their cage and I gave them all baths. I hope they gtg through this in one piece. I don't know how much more I can take.

 

[KiwiCavyAdorer]

Prtty... this is probably not much help as I am also asking questions but for what my thoughts are worth, I'm wondering if, in a case like this one could have two accesses (and exits) to a kitchen area but separate the area: blank it out so that they could not see anyone else up there in the other partitioned off part. They would still hear of course but would that help feeding space; if one would claim one kitchen as his and would he allow the other partition to be used by the others? Are they territorial like that? or would he end up being likely to try and claim both kitchens? and lots of exercise would ensue?
I hope you start to see some changes for the better. My heart really goes out to you! it can't be easy to be you right now. Good luck

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

Okay so, the first night went good. I have found no new blood stains and no new wads of fur. YAY!

Now that I have the cage set up, I am trying to figure out some creative things to do to give everyone something to do in there. Because the cage is so long and I needed it to be a certain height to clear the window ledges, I had to put it on a table. This is GREAT because now I have a lot of storage under the table but now, it is too high for me to build a loft. I have rotator cuff issues (old sports injuries) and reaching up is something I can absolutely not do at this height. I love my pigs but, they are going to have to make do with a 2x6 plain old flat cage. I cannot expand outwards any more, I have already lost too much room so, the 1x1 kitchen extensions are not going to happen.

I am sure I can figure it out and look around and find some good alternatives. They way I look at it, they have a 2x6. They get the best food, hay and pellets (my) money can buy and they get tons and tons of attention. I have sacrificed my space for them. So, I am hoping they can cut me some slack. I am not such a horrible parent. *laughs*

 

[lissie]

I think a 2x6 flat cage is gonna be better than one with a 1x1 kitchen. With a kitchen that size, they'll fight in the kitchen. With the flat cage, they won't be able to block the other from food.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

Well, I was going to make 2 little 1x1 kitchen nooks so there could be separate eating quarters. I just don't have room for that now.

 

[CavyMama]

2X3 is too small for 2 males, regardless of if you have a loft or not. It might be part of the reason for the squabbles.

 

[lissie]

This is how I used to have my cage. It had 1x2 hay lofts on 2 sides. Oreo would run across the ramp to chase the others away from both lofts.


This one worked better for them. Just a hay area at the end of the cage.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

Yeah. I realize that 2x3 is too small for three males. I was trying to buy some time because that cage was baby proofed. I now have a 2x6. No loft.

 

[Deb's4Pigs]

Are they still getting along. Glad the larger cage is working.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

Are they still getting along. Glad the larger cage is working.

Funny you should ask this. Just as I was feeding and reloading their hay (I had forgotten to give them hay last night) I found Guillermo with with a wad of fur in his mouth and Ricardo was doing what sounded like whimpering and I started crying. I picked up Ricardo and he snuggled in my arm. I shook my finger at Guillermo and asked him why but, he's not talking. Darn pig!

I know they are going through adolescents but doesn't this abuse seem extreme? I really feel like I might need to rehome him soon because I can't have the violence. They are the same exact age. Will they ever establish top "dog?"
My heart feels like it is breaking when I see this happening and getting rid of one of them is not what I want to do but.... I feel horrible now for adding a third.

Something I have been thinking of is... I have another male pair. They are a little over 2 years old. They have their occasional tiffs but mostly, they eat, sleep and poop. I am not suggesting just switching and dumping them into different cages but, do you think if I switch out one of the older ones for one of the brothers that maybe the battle for top male will end? Both of my older males each have wonderful qualities. They run when we try to catch them but once we get one of them, they lick our fingers, take treats, snuggle on the couch on their towels right next to us. They are good boys. Is this something that may be worth trying? If so, how would I go about it?

I just feel awful about the bloodshed. Once the fighting starts, Baby Sancho runs and takes cover. I am trying to be patient through this "tweeny" time. It just really disturbs me to see all the fur and bloodshed.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

I woke up this morning to find Ricardo shivering in the corner. He crawled into my hand and slept in my pocket for awhile. He had a big bloody avaunt spot on his ear and one on his side. I divided the cage and an going to go out and buy a small animal cage for him. I am thinking of maybe finding him a new home. I know he is a teen and this is how it goes but this us vetting ridiculous and heartbreaking. As yet, the baby, Sancho is completely untouched but he is horribly skittish. Can anyone give me any thoughts on the suggestion I gave above of maybe doing some pig switching within the cages. Maybe if Guillermo was with an older guy he would calm down. Any advice is completely welcome.

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

I woke up this morning to find Ricardo shivering in the corner. He crawled into my hand and slept in my pocket for awhile. He had a big bloody avaunt spot on his ear.

That should read SCABBY not AVAUNT. Darn auto correct.

 

[crazy4looney2n]

I was wondering what Avaunt meant. The situation sounds horrible. I honestly wouldn't know what to do if my piggies were hurting each other the way your's are. I have two males and the other night they were fighting. I don't think that it really got too physical but for a while I got scared. The newer one was trying to be the alpha and the older of the two wasn't too happy about it. I had added an empty cookie box to the cage and they really liked it. I think I may have ruined the balance of the cage by adding that box. So I remove the box that night and the next morning they were fine like nothing had happened. I put the box back in this weekend but removed the PVC pipes and another hiddie tunnel before adding the box and no fighting broke out. I hope you can resolve this fast before there is any more blood shed. I wouldn't want to break up that older bonded pair due to the brothers fighting but perhaps if you moved the baby in with the older bonded pair the issue would resolve itself, oh and are you 100% sure that the baby is a male? You know just in case.

 

[lissie]

How about put Ricardo with the older guys? Don't separate the older guys if they are bonded. How big is the cage the older pair is in? Maybe you could move them to the 2x6 with Ricardo and move Guillermo and the baby to the other cage?

 

[PrttyChngaderas]

How about put Ricardo with the older guys? Don't separate the older guys if they are bonded. How big is the cage the older pair is in? Maybe you could move them to the 2x6 with Ricardo and move Guillermo and the baby to the other cage?

I would TOTALLY be willing to make that switch. How should I go about doing that? The older boys are in a 2x4 with a 1x2 kitchen. The babies are all in a 2x6.

Also, Carlos and Allen have been together for about 2 months. They politely tolerate one another but, I wouldn't say they are bonded. Carlos and Allen are about 2 years old or so. I was thinking that maybe I could take Guillermo, the major trouble maker and put him in with one of the older boys. Then take the mellower of the older boys and put him in with the other two little ones. I would then have an older male in each cage, then a teen and then the baby in with one of the groups. In my little brain, I figure that this would set up a clear "chain of command" within the ages. Does that make sense or am I just full of wishful thinking? I am trying to do it this way, if possible, because what if the two older guys try to establish dominance with a younger fella in there? Could that happen?

After seeing all that Guillermo is doing, I am really starting to not like him and I feel like a jerk about that. It's totally not his fault, this is all on me to fix I just don't know what to do. Thank you all for listening to this big fat whiner.