Urine Calcium sludge

[kirt15]

So here is the story of Jellybeans bladder problems that I need help with.

So it started with him squeaking every so often for months and I thought it was his buddy annoying him as he always squeaks a similar squeak when his buddy tries to get next to him in the hay, his house, his tunnel etc. Then I saw him squeak when he was peeing and pooping. We took him to the vet and they did x-rays and could find only extremely tiny dots that could have been stones or something else and if they were stones could easily be passed. Just in case it was anything else like a UTI he was given some medicine to help with that. So we brought him home and radically changed his diet so no more parsley, Kale, Dill or Spinach. He seems to do really well for a while on this new diet and then he starts squeaking again maybe once a week and leaves white spots and calcium sludge when he pees and then he is fine again for a little while. I am in Australia so can only get oxbow for his pellets which I have read on this forum can sometimes be a problem. The vet also said he should drink more water and this is a problem as he doesn't drink water (and hasn't for 4 years) we tried again after what the vet said, we put in a dish of water and he stuck his head out of his house stretched forward sniffed and then ran for his little life. For the rest of the night he would make sure to skirt and go all the way around the water bowl and not come out one side of the tunnel as it was too close to the water bowl (he is terrified of anything new) which I am pretty sure would help him dilute his pee a bit. As for his vegetables he currently gets romaine lettuce (which I also read can cause problems but he only gets that in the morning and I use it as a water source for them as well), Radicchio, Celery, Silverbeet, swiss chard, carrot, red and green capsicum, cucumber, chickory, endive, fennel, Pak-Choi, red and green coral lettuce I think (I get them a leaf mix so can't remember what the name is), Corn Husk. Not all of this is in the one day but spread throughout the week except for a few that are staples.

So any ideas about what I should do next? Is it strange that his squeaking when he pees only happens like once a week and then stops until around the following week? Is there anything I can do to get him to drink water?

Any help would be great thanks.

 

[bob101]

This is a long shot since I know nothing about Guinea Pigs but since no-one seems to be replying to you...

I saw this thread earlier while researching food for my Iguana. No idea what your Piggies problem is but this sounds similar?

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...r-leafy-greens-and-natural-foods.56103/page-2

Please don't feel beet root leaves, they are toxic.
A few slices of beetroot a week is very good for them, the acidic-ness helps break down and dissolve any clacium build up which can lead to stones, I give my 4 2 slices each once a week. Just chop the tops off then slice

[/QUOTE]

Another thing to consider...

From my Iguana knowledge I know Endive and Pak-Choi are very high (but not extremely high) in calcium. Again I have no idea how much Calcium piggies need or how their calcium interacts with other chemicals in their system, so i'm in no way recommending you remove these from his diet.

I did however find this random page which suggests you need more than 1.33 to 1 ratio of calcium to phosphorate in their diet and has a nice little calculator at the bottom of the page (don't open it in read only). You could use it to see if you are giving them ridiculously high amounts of calcium and its just coming out of his... u know.
https://www.guinealynx.info/stones_diet.html

Hope you can solve the problem!

 

[bob101]

In fact adding to my above post, if all you are giving the Guinea pig excess calcium and phosphate you could try reducing both of these to a more reasonable level to see if it stops the build up. As I said though no expert so I would do your own research. Just looking at a few random sites on the internet such as: (broken link removed) it seems that this could cause the problem.

 

[bpatters]

The first thing you should do is take him off romaine lettuce. Some pigs have excess urinary calcium, which can lead to stones, when eating it. Others don't, and we don't know why that's the case, but those pigs generally have fewer problems with red or green leaf lettuce.

Chicory and fennel are both high in calcium, and bok choi is very high in calcium.

See https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...vy-Nutrition-Charts-amp-Poisonous-Plants-List for what they can eat, and how often. It's a little out of date, but essentially correct.

Also take him off pellets entirely. Oxbow uses calcium carbonate as the source of calcium in those pellets, and there are tons of anecdotes about people whose pigs have more problems with urinary calcium when eating Oxbow. With the range of veggies you're feeding him, he should be fine. When he's a senior pig, you may have to consider supplementing him with vitamins.

The two best things you can do for your pig are to syringe him water or pedialyte, and keep him moving. The activity will keep the calcium in his bladder in suspension so it can be eliminated when he urinates, and the extra liquid will keep things moving through. Most pigs like pedialyte and will readily take it from a syringe, so giving him 30-40 cc a day would be a good thing.

One thing about pedialyte (the generic is fine). It molds quicker than anything I know, and you can only keep it in the fridge for about 48 hours. The easiest thing to do is to freeze it in ice cube trays and just thaw them out as you need them.

Don't ever ignore squeaks when peeing, and especially when pooping. Most vets believe that stones form when there's some infection in the bladder, so the quicker you get it treated, the less likely the pig is to go on to develop stones. And it will never get better by itself if it's an infection. If it's a small stone, the pig can sometimes eliminate it, particularly if it's a sow, but boars usually can't.

The really bad news in all this is that some pigs are just genetically wired to develop stones, and there's not much you can do about it. You can reduce calcium as much as possible, but that's about it. I know of several pigs that formed new stones within days of having one removed. Just stay on top of any possible infection, give him lots of liquids, and make him move. Good luck!

 

[kirt15]

Thankyou so much for everyone's responses I feel a little bit better equipped to deal with the situation now. I will be cutting out the romaine lettuce for sure and will be keeping a better eye on the calcium in his diet. I will try and find the equivalent of pedialyte because we don't have that in Australia but there would surely have to be something similar and start syringe feeding him fluids. I will also keep more of a diary on his episodes (thanks @spy9doc).

 

[kirt15]

Okay so I have looked here in Australia and we don't have pedialyte. The closest thing we have here is hydralyte and gastrolyte but they are all flavoured and they don't have dextrose they have glucose (which apparently means the same thing). So I have included below the ingredients in hydralyte, gastrolyte and pedialyte. I was hoping if someone could tell me if either the hydralyte or gastrolyte is okay to use compared to the pedialyte? Also is it better to used the powdered one you make up or the bottled pre made one? Otherwise I have been reading that you can make your own homemade pedialyte is this a better option? If so does anyone have a good recipe?

Hydralyte Apple Blackcurrant Flavour Electrolyte Powder
10 x 5 g sachets per pack (each sachet makes a 200 mL serve)
Ingredients
In 4.9 g (average mass) of powder:
Sodium chloride 0.53 g
Potassium citrate 0.44 g
Anhydrous citric acid 0.88 g
Anhydrous glucose 2.91 g
This product also contains: Natural colour, natural flavour and nature identical flavours, sucralose

Hydralyte Ready to use Apple Blackcurrant Flavoured Electrolyte Solution
4 x 250 mL OR 1 litre Bottle
Ingredients
Sodium chloride 2.5 mg/mL
Potassium citrate (monohydrate) 2.2 mg/mL
Citric acid monohydrate 4.8 mg/mL
Glucose (monohydrate) 16 mg/mL
This product also contains:
Purified water, blackcurrant colour solution (122, 133), natural flavour, sucralose, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate.

Gastrolyte Electrolyte Rehydration Formula (Sachets) Available in Orange flavour
Glucose 356mg/sachet
Potassium Chloride 300mg/sachet
Sodium Chloride 470mg/sachet
Sodium Acid Citrate 530mg/sachet

Gastrolyte Electrolyte Rehydration Formula (Ready To Drink) Available in Orange and Strawberry flavour
Glucose 15.8mg/mL
Potassium Citrate 2.11mg/mL
Sodium Chloride 2.6mg/mL
Citric Acid Anhydrous 2.53mg/mL

Pedialyte® Unflavored

Water, Dextrose. Less than 2% of the Following: Potassium Citrate, Salt, Sodium Citrate, Citric Acid, and Zinc Gluconate
Hyd

 

[bpatters]

I'd stick with the Gastrolyte because the Hydralyte has sucralose (Splenda) in it.

 

[Agrimony]

I have a boar who had recurring issues with stones. Within a two month period before he was one year old he had them three times- one he passed on his own, two required veterinary interference to help him pass them. After that I took him off pellets completely, gave an Oxbow urinary health tab daily, and cut high calcium veggies out completely (no more romaine, parsley, spinach, kale, etc.)

This helped a lot, and since then (two years later) he has not had any serious issues. His urine is a little gritty/sludgy some times but has not since passed a stone, squeaked in pain, or had blood in his urine. I recently started giving him KMS pellets occasionally (he LOVES) them and he has not had any issues with them.

 

[kirt15]

I was looking up where to get my oxbow pellets for my other 2 boys (not Jellybean and his mate) and I noticed that they have oxbow-Natural science urinary support tablets that they say are supposed to help with urinary issues such as infections, bladder stones or sludgy urine. Is it worth giving these to Jellybean to help with the calcium sludge as well as giving him the gastrolyte? Does anyone have any experience with these tablets or are they just a load of crap that don't really work?

 

[bpatters]

I give them, but I don't know if they help. I have one pig that is nearly six that has had no stone problems at all. Her litter mate had two rounds of stones, in spite of the urinary support tablets, low calcium diet, and no pellets.