Stones Bodie Has Kidney Stones

[NicholsS10]

For those of you who don't know Bodie, or his adoption story, here is a link to a thread I started about it: https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/about-guinea-pigs/49587-joys-adopting.html

Also, if anyone knows any links or where I can find GOOD information on kidney stones in guinea pigs, PLEASE let me know.

On Friday (2-27-10) morning, Bodie was diagnosed with kidney stones. He started to act ill on Thursday (2-26-10) night- lethargic, puffed up coat, sitting in the corner by himself, and not eating much of anything. I figured that he had a URI, so I brought him into the vet. After an exam the vet noticed that one kidney was significantly larger than the other, and was causing him pain. They took 2 x-rays. She showed me the x-rays and I began to cry with Bodie in my arms... I could see 3 stones in his left kidney...they weren't too large, one was even small... but there they were.

Bladder stones is something I think I could deal with... but kidney stones? I NEVER thought that he would get those. In fact, I still cannot find a lot of information on kidney stones, or anything about the prevalence of them in guinea pigs.

Since it's Kidney Stones, surgery is not an option... and we have very few options. Boars can rarely pass stones, since the urethra is too narrow.

She said that he has a 50-50 chance of survival if I do everything in my power to help him fight this, and he deserves that chance.

He's on some painkillers twice a day, and on a medicine that I have not heard of before, and is not listed on guinealynx anywhere (on safe OR dangerous medicines). It's called potassium citrate, and I got it grape flavored for him. It was hard to concentrate on everything she was saying since I was in shock over the stones... but it seems that the medicine is suppose to help get rid of the stones by making the urine less acidic.

He has also become anorexic, and even refusing his favorite food: carrots. I have started to force feed him a pellet slurry every 4 to 5 hours, about 10 to 15 cc in a syringe at a time, and not all of that goes down. I've also been syringing him water.

While still at the vet, I had them give him fluids, even though he was not dehydrated.

At the end of the visit, he started to urinate blood... and he has continued to urinate lots of it. He's in a lot of pain...but I can tell that he still wants to live, and is a fighter. Once in a while I see him nibble on a pellet on his own, or much a little bit of hay, but most of the time while he's in his hospital cage (I sectioned off part of the cage so he's still near the girls) he's underneath a fleece tent AND in a cozy to keep warm.

I'm encouraged when I force feed him or give him medicine. I even smiled when he bit me because he was so adamant about not wanting to be force fed. If he has the energy to fight me, he must have the energy to fight this illness as well.

The girls (I have 4... Bodie is neutered) all know something is up. When I was fixing up the hospital cage, I had him in the cage with the girls. ALL of the girls came up to him and nuzzled him for extended periods of time, showing their affection for him. He's king of the cage, and a wonderful piggy husband to my girls. He also has a LOT of personality, and is a very unique pig. I have a special bond with him, and love him so much... I really hope he survives this...

PS: Bodie is my avatar and profile picture.. Isn't he handsome?

 

[coojoe135]

He will be ok. When I was 7 I lost a guinea pig due to a URI. When they done an autopsy on the poor thing, they found a tiny tiny kidney stone developing. Keep him on the meds, keep syringe feeding him. You are doing all of the right things. If he continues to pass blood, you need to take him back. When you see like clumps of blood immeditaley get him to the vet. mine did that and died the next day. Again, Im super Sorry about that. He is strong and a fighter. Good Luck

 

[NicholsS10]

Thanks CooJoe135, I really hopes he makes it... I really need him to make it.

I was also wondering how much a guinea pig should gain in weight between forced feedings?

I realized I should be doing that, and just got done with a forced feeding about 10 minutes ago with him, he gained .5oz. Is that good? Should he gain more or less than that. He normally weighs around 2lb 4oz when sick and 2lb 9oz when healthy if that's any help.

 

[blackarrow]

Oh no! Bodie is one of my favorite board pigs.

I don't understand why surgery would not be an option, though - I've seen several sites which say it is.

I also wonder if lithotripsy (pulverising the stones with sound waves) is an option, if you can find a veterinary hospital with the device?

Good luck to Bodie.

 

[wigglesgiggles1]

Aww poor Bodie! He will be fine, he just has to keep fighting. Give him some piggy hugs and kisses from me and give him lots of lap time. Sorry I don't have any kidney stone experience. Best of my wishes goes to you and Bodie.

 

[NicholsS10]

I don't understand why surgery would not be an option, though - I've seen several sites which say it is.

Thank you Blackarrow!

Can you provide me with the links to those sites?

I'll also talk to the vet about the sound wave treatment! Thank you!!!

 

[PiggiePaws]

I don't know anything about kidney stones, but he is a gorgeous pig and sounds like a strong fighter! He'll pull through, don't worry

Sending happy thoughts and prayers your way! Keep us updated

 

[fieryone]

Oh no! I don't have any advice but I am thinking good thoughts for Bodie. I know he's in great hands.

 

[NicholsS10]

I don't understand why surgery would not be an option, though - I've seen several sites which say it is.

I believe that many vets don't want to risk further compromising the kidney, possibly doing more harm than good especially when there are non-invasive options.

I also wanted to add that once the vet's office opens on Monday, I'm going to get the supplies to start giving Bodie SubQ injections. He had one done at the vet, since then I've been trying to syringe feed him about 60cc of water a day, and it's really hard to do. The vet recommend that I do the injections with him, but I've NEVER been comfortable giving injections...but since to me, this is a life or death situation, I know I can muster up the courage and give him the injections he needs to keep going and give the medication a chance to work.

 

[Paula]

I'm sorry to hear about Bodie. Kidney stones really are the worst.

That said, I feel like you're being given a bit of false hope with the comments that "he'll be fine," and "he'll be ok," because the reality of kidney stones is that they are generally very aggressive and very debilitating - and you should really understand what you're up against.

I don't understand why surgery would not be an option, though - I've seen several sites which say it is.

I believe that many vets don't want to risk further compromising the kidney, possibly doing more harm than good especially when there are non-invasive options.

Surgery, while theoretically possible, is generally dismissed in the case of kidney stones because 1) very few vets actually have the experience or skill to perform it successfully and 2) kidney stones are very aggressive and tend to return nearly immediately after surgery.

Kidney stones also increase the likelihood that he will develop stones in one or both ureters.

As for the potassium citrate - just a quick comment - guinea pig urine is alkaline, not acidic. I'm not sure if you meant "increase" acidity, but you should understand that potassium citrate has not been shown to be effective at slowing calcium carbonate stone formation.

All that said, there are some things you CAN do to help improve his qualify of life. Because his kidney function is likely already compromised, subcues can help, and once you've done it once or twice you will feel much more comfortable with it. I would suggest not attempting to push through the entire amount at one time, mainly because I find the 60 CC syringes nearly impossible to push fluid through. I'd split it up into two 30 CC syringes, and either give it at one time or once in the morning and perhaps once in the evening. There are online shops where you can get butterfly syringes for MUCH cheaper than your vet's office probably offers them, too, just PM me if you want links.

Also, I personally would cut out pellets altogether at this point, or at least consider drastically reducing the amount.

Good luck to you and again, I'm sorry you and Bodie are facing this challenge.

 

[1frankie7]

I'm sorry, Don't have any medical advice.


Bodie is a beautiful pig(and like others, he is in my top five pigs on the net!!!), I wish him good luck with everything!!! I really hope he gets better, really soon!

 

[pinky]

I'm so sorry to hear about Bodie. I know people whose guinea pigs have had stones and had surgery only to have the stones return. My vet said that one of the major universities in IL has conducted a lot of research to try to find ways to reduce stone formation in guinea pigs with little success. He said as a preventive measure, try and keep the urine ph at around 7.0 and to add 7 drops of vinegar per pint of drinking water to keep it slightly acidic. Don't give them well water which tends to have a high mineral content. Even bottled water sometimes has minerals added so check the labels. I lost a guinea pig to stones a few years back. I believe it was from our well water. I use bottled water now and none of mine have developed stones. I do add the vinegar drops, but not all the time. They don't seem to even notice it. I don't think there's a good prognosis without surgery. The pain meds are important. I'm not sure if everyone will agree with what I've written, but I'm just posting this for you to discuss with your vet.

 

[Evangela]

Hi Pinky,
Can you tell me why you add the vinegar drops to your water bottle? Thank you

 

[pinky]

Hi Pinky,
Can you tell me why you add the vinegar drops to your water bottle? Thank you

The way I understood it is that the acidity of the vinegar helps maintain the right ph which makes it unsuitable for certain types of stones to form. He gave me test strips to check the urine. As I mentioned in my other comment, I lost a pig to stones. I use a syringe dropper so the drops are very tiny. When stones are surgically removed, they determine what they are made of and modify their diet based on that to try and keep them from reforming. My pig could not have surgery because he lost weight and wasn't a candidate for surgery.

 

[coojoe135]

Thanks CooJoe135, I really hopes he makes it... I really need him to make it.

I was also wondering how much a guinea pig should gain in weight between forced feedings?

I realized I should be doing that, and just got done with a forced feeding about 10 minutes ago with him, he gained .5oz. Is that good? Should he gain more or less than that. He normally weighs around 2lb 4oz when sick and 2lb 9oz when healthy if that's any help.

Has he lost any? If he lost any, it would be smart that he gain a little bit back.

 

[NicholsS10]

Has he lost any? If he lost any, it would be smart that he gain a little bit back.

His weight has stabilized, and even increased by almost an ounce since I started the forced feedings.

 

[wigglesgiggles1]

His weight has stabilized, and even increased by almost an ounce since I started the forced feedings.

Thats good to hear! How is he doing now?

 

[NicholsS10]

I'm sorry to hear about Bodie. Kidney stones really are the worst.

Thank you... and I know... once I saw the x-ray I started balling, and have been crying on and off since finding out. I also have been considering euthanasia...

That said, I feel like you're being given a bit of false hope with the comments that "he'll be fine," and "he'll be ok," because the reality of kidney stones is that they are generally very aggressive and very debilitating - and you should really understand what you're up against.

I've tried to stay positive since there is a chance he can pull through... but the vet DID try to give me some false hope. I wasn't having any of it, and made her talk to me frankly as I could.

As for the potassium citrate - just a quick comment - guinea pig urine is alkaline, not acidic. I'm not sure if you meant "increase" acidity, but you should understand that potassium citrate has not been shown to be effective at slowing calcium carbonate stone formation.

Sorry if I was unclear, I was told that it would change the pH of the urine to help dissolve the stones. The vet also said that it would be a shot in the dark, of course she also said he has a 50 50 chance (which I figure she was selling as false hope). She then told me that most people give up, and euthanize their pigs with this diagnosis.

All that said, there are some things you CAN do to help improve his qualify of life. Because his kidney function is likely already compromised, subcues can help, and once you've done it once or twice you will feel much more comfortable with it. I would suggest not attempting to push through the entire amount at one time, mainly because I find the 60 CC syringes nearly impossible to push fluid through. I'd split it up into two 30 CC syringes, and either give it at one time or once in the morning and perhaps once in the evening. There are online shops where you can get butterfly syringes for MUCH cheaper than your vet's office probably offers them, too, just PM me if you want links.

I actually have decided to start doing this instead of constantly syringing him water, but once I decided this the vet office was closed, and won't be open again until Monday morning, which is when I will be getting supplies.

Also, I personally would cut out pellets altogether at this point, or at least consider drastically reducing the amount.

He has actually stopped eating on his own all together. He won't eat ANY vegetables, stopped eating hay, and won't even eat fresh wheat grass... the only times he eats is when I force feed him a pellet slurry (to which I add some fresh wheat grass or cilantro to improve the taste for him).

Good luck to you and again, I'm sorry you and Bodie are facing this challenge.

Thanks, I know that we need all the luck we can get...

Paula, there are some other things I have noticed. Since Bodie has fallen ill, and been separated (their cage is so big I was able to portion a section off so they can still be nose to nose) the girls are already challenging each other for the top position in the hierarchy (which is Bodie's position). This makes me feel that they know he's not going to be around much longer, and are in the process of moving on. I also feel like they sense something that I don't want to face... that he won't pull through, that he's dying.

Also, I've noticed that he NEVER leaves his cuddle cup.. I mean NEVER. I'm constantly staying with him now (I've taken the semester off of school for my own personal health reasons). Twice I've put him back in his cuddle cup after a feeding. To keep him warm I cover his body loosely with a piece of fleece that has been folded in half, and cover him and the cuddle cup completely with a small fleece blanket that is clipped to the side of the cage. Since I positioned the fleece over him, I know whether or not he's moved. Sometimes he doesn't move for 4 hours at a time.

Today there were only 5 poops, and they were terribly unhealthy.

Everytime he pees, blood comes out. Either concentrated or somewhat diluted.

I've started to wonder if he'll be able to pull through this at all, and I know that deck is set against us. And if that's the case, I don't want to prolong his suffering, he is obviously in a LOT of pain. I've only had him for nearly 2 years, and for a little over a year of that, he's had a LOT of UTIs, the vet now thinks that it may have been stones all along.

Paula, at what point will I know that he won't be able to pull through?

I feel like I'm pushing him through this for my own selfish reasons, and this is NO TIME for me to be selfish, I have to put him first... so when do I know that my hope for his recovery has changed into my selfishness of not wanting to let him go because I know the pain of losing him will be horrendous?

 

[NicholsS10]

His breathing has started to become noticeably more labored....

 

[Ly&Pigs]

If he's not eating, not moving around much and has labored breathing, chances are his body is starting to shut down. He may not even make it through the night.

I'm so very sorry Nichols. I know you love him and want what is best for him. Right now letting him know it's ok to go if he needs to and giving him extra love may be what is needed.