Fighting Two male piggies having trouble living together....

[Highhopes112]

About three weeks ago I brought home my two new piggies, Abaddon and Cain, both male, Abaddon (Peruvian) is quite a bit bigger then Cain (American, I guess) and I assume a little bit older. At first Abaddon chased Cain around and put him in his place but then for the first few weeks they got along fine I guess, they chased each other around the cage a bit and were a little rough but every thing I read said that unless one was getting hurt to just leave them to work it out, which I did. But now I think Cain is scratching up Abaddon's back, I don't think he does it intentionally or maliciously but they have little tussles and one of them squeals in pain, and now when I pick Abaddon up he squeals a little bit and I think his hair is coming out in small chunks though I don't know or certain that it's related. I know that the cage they are in is too small (it's a long rectangular pet store type) and I have begun trying to put together a bigger C&C cage but with my financial situation that might take some time. I have them separated, Abaddon is in a "run" that I made from cardboard boxes and other household materials but I don't want to leave him in there 24/7, I'm afraid he'll escape and when I built it I intended to use it for play time, under my direct supervision only (I used a lot of tape and plastic and don't think he should be chewing on all that stuff) and I can't watch him in there all the time. Plus the whole point of having two piggies was so that they could play and live together... so here are my questions:
1-How do I know if they are just playing rough or are actually acting aggressively? How do I know if they are having a dominance issue?
2- If I get them in a bigger cage will this sort itself out enough that they can live together?
3- Is there anyway to make them play nicely enough that I can leave them both in the cage until I can put together a better one?
4- Is there anything I need to be doing to treat Abaddon's scratches? Is his hair coming out a result of their interactions or is it something else? He's really mellow and quiet but he's been like that since I got him.


P.S.- I haven't really seen it as much on this site but I've seen it a lot on others: Every time someone says that they have a cage that's too small and they are working on putting together a C&C cage people go on and on about how it doesn't cost much and if you're going to get a piggies you're supposed to make sure that you have the proper cage size and they money to care for them properly but the cage I have came with my first piggy that I got as a rescue and she died about a week before my birthday so my sister got me Cain and Abaddon for my birthday and I've been in between jobs, I've been looking for one like crazy so that I can afford to take excellent care of them...

 

[jaycriae]

Once they have a bigger cage, there's a pretty good chance they'll get along, but you'll have to do full reintroductions (clean out the whole cage thoroughly, put them in a big neutral area to get reacquainted, etc).

Lining Abaddon's temporary cage with some sort of fabric, even like a sheet or something, to prevent him from chewing the tape and cardboard would be a good idea.

You can tell if you need to be concerned by whether blood is drawn. It sounds like it has been, so you were right to separate them until you get the bigger cage.

As for Abaddon's back, the hair loss could be from Cain pulling it out or it could be from stress. You mostly need to pay attention to his healing wounds to make sure there's no signs of infection or abscess- if it's extra warm, swollen, et cetera, he needs to go to the vet.

Btw you should think about vet bills, also. All pets have to go eventually, and if you can't afford their cage, you're going to be in trouble when that time comes. Not to be ominous, but I'd start working on an emergency fund once you've got the cage.


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[Highhopes112]

Thank you so much for your help, I will defiantly take that advice. As far as vet bills go our vet is practically a saint and is fantastic about making payment arrangements in emergency situations and my sister already told me that if I needed help taking care of them financially speaking we could strike up some kind of deal, but an emergency fund is second on my list right after the cage.

 

[ZiggyPig]

How big is the cage they were in together? Not asking to shame you as you know what you are doing right now, simply to get a size idea.

What size C&C cage are you aiming to build? Some of the people on here with males can give you better advice than me on this, but I think if I remember correctly while 2X4 is bare minimum for 2 females, 2x5 or 2x6 for males.

I'm assuming that since you say you are building the new cage you know you can find all the materials cheaper at places like Home Depot, Lowes, etc. If not, FYI!

It sounds like you are doing right by your piggies, I look forward to hearing more about Abaddon and Cain!

 

[Soecara]

Keep an eye on abaddons back, he could have been losing fur from being nipped at, but it is also possible that he might have something like a fungal infection or lice/mites. Watch him for further hair loss, excessive scratching, and discomfort when touched.

 

[Highhopes112]

The top of my current cage is 40"x18" and I was going to start with a basic 2x4 cage and then build up and out as time goes on. I was going to steal the specs for the 2x4 cage from this site and when I have some money take to the internet and start building from the ground up, that was the plan I made after I got my first piggy and was going to work on it while I had just her but she died significantly sooner then I had anticipated, but as far as how big i'm aiming for, frankly I'm fairly certain that I'm going to end up sleeping in the bathtub because all the other rooms in my house have been taken over by a guinea pig cage...

 

[Highhopes112]

Keep an eye on abaddons back, he could have been losing fur from being nipped at, but it is also possible that he might have something like a fungal infection or lice/mites. Watch him for further hair loss, excessive scratching, and discomfort when touched.

Thank you. I never even thought about that, I'm a little worried about him because he's super quiet and doesn't move around much, or eat a whole lot but I called my vet and he said that he probably was still adjusting to his new home and cage-mate, and he's been like that the whole time I've had him, but I've just been keeping a close eye on him to make sure he doesn't get any worse while trying to give him extra love...

 

[ZiggyPig]

The top of my current cage is 40"x18" and I was going to start with a basic 2x4 cage and then build up and out as time goes on. I was going to steal the specs for the 2x4 cage from this site and when I have some money take to the internet and start building from the ground up, that was the plan I made after I got my first piggy and was going to work on it while I had just her but she died significantly sooner then I had anticipated, but as far as how big i'm aiming for, frankly I'm fairly certain that I'm going to end up sleeping in the bathtub because all the other rooms in my house have been taken over by a guinea pig cage...

hmmm, @Guinea Pig Papa @jaycriae want to weigh in on whether a 2x4 will be enough for these two boys? I have a feeling it won't be big enough for a re-introduction. I think you are going to have to go a little bit bigger.

 

[Highhopes112]

Would it be better to go 2X5 or 2X4 with a loft?

 

[Guinea Pig Papa]

Lofts don't really count toward square footage. Bigger is ALWAYS better. If you're having issues with them, try a 2 x 5 and go from there, depending on how much room you have.

 

[Highhopes112]

I'm not really worried about taking up space I just think the lofts look like fun, honestly I have no problem getting rid of furniture to make room for my piggies.
So I'd also like to as where you guys got your grids and which ones I need specifically...

 

[Guinea Pig Papa]

You need the grids that are 9 squares high and 9 wide. Each square is roughly 1.5 inches. There are others that have larger holes, and those are dangerous for piggies.

As for my grids, I got them at Canadian Tire, which won't help you at all. I believe you may be able to get them at Walmart in the States, or Home Depot. As far as getting them in the U.S. I'm not sure.

 

[ZiggyPig]

I've heard Home Depot, Lowes, other hardware stores sometimes. Coroplast too. You can totally put in a loft, my piggies ADORE theirs, but it definitely won't help with space issues.

 

[Highhopes112]

Thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it. I know my problems are on this site 100 times but I feel much better having some back and forth rather then just reading someone else's conversation.

 

[Guinea Pig Papa]

If you'd like to add a loft, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Some pigs will love it and use it a lot, but flat square footage is best for boars. A loft will add somewhere else for them to investigate on a regular basis.

I applaud you for willing to move your home around to create space for your piggies. My living room is literally just over half full of cage and pen

 

[Highhopes112]

I want to get more then just the two boars in the future, I would love a whole heard. Frankly I really want a cage big enough that I can lay down in the middle and just have piggies crawl all over me.

 

[Guinea Pig Papa]

I want to get more then just the two boars in the future, I would love a whole heard. Frankly I really want a cage big enough that I can lay down in the middle and just have piggies crawl all over me.

Haha that would be cool, but you're better off doing that with sows than boars. The more boars the you have, you need TONS of space. I just tried a boar trio with 2 babies and a senior, and after one of the babies hit puberty that didn't work out. At the time I had roughly 30 square feet of cage and pen.

I have no idea if anyone here has tried a whole bunch of boars at one time. I would think there'd be a LOT of bickering and blood.

Right now I have the three boars and they've got almost 40 square ft split in half.

 

[Highhopes112]

My heart isn't set on just boars, I kind of want a little bit of everything eventually. I don't know if its true for guinea pigs or any other animals but when I was in Jr. High I was in 4-H and FFA and raised actual pigs and we noticed that we had fewer problems with males they were a bit more, lets say, durable. I don't know if that's actually a thing or not but since my last piggy was female and died so quickly I kind of figured I'd give boars a try. Plus I really wanted one with fun long hair and when we saw Abaddon I fell in love with his face and hair patterns and he was a boar so we picked out another one to be his cage-mate... and we can see how well that worked out... JK I love Cain and Ill do whatever it takes to make them both happy.

 

[jaycriae]

You can buy coroplast at sign shops. Coroplast and grids are also both for sale on this website's Store section.

 

[Highhopes112]

So I have another question... after all of this I'm pretty sure Cain is lonely, Abaddon is like whatever, he doesn't seem to care as long as he's not getting trampled, but Cain won't stop chewing on the side of his cage that is next to Abaddon's "cage" and randomly wheeks no matter what is going on... I always did floor times seperatly because they were in the same cage and I just figured the time apart would be a good thing, plus it's easier to handle one piggy at a time but now I'm thinking I should do floor time together...any thoughts?