General Questions and wanting to understand.

[pinky]

I guess it's hard for me to understand, because normally when some one starts something to change the way the world thinks, they have a end game in place. But with this issue there is not good endgame. I think instead of boycotting breeders and pet stores we should try and get better breeding regulations. And shut down the " bad guy" factory's , not buy boycotting stores but bringing the factory's more in the lime light. And there are legal ways of doing so. Pet stores could still sell pets but they have to get pets threw reputable places and breeders. Cast of animals will go up, but it's for a good reason, which then would bring down the amount of demand , and less animals will be Generated. . This is a better game plan.

And how do you personally plan to do your part to implement it and how will it be done? Tell me about your legal solutions? Did you know it's not even illegal to keep small pets locked in a car in MI? A case like that in MI was discussed on her a couple of years ago. Look at the large scale rescues where dog mills are shut down. It takes a lot of legislative power to enact the laws that make it legal to do so. And that's for dogs. AND what happens is those operations just move to another state where there laws aren't in place and have little chance of passing. Guinea pigs are transported to stores. They're not being bred in the back room at Petsmart and Petco. There is little hope that a type of law to stop breeding guinea pigs would be enforced considering that they are used in laboratory testing and for feeders. It's not going to happen. That's why you have to hit the stores that sell them in the pocketbook. It's so simple and doable, especially when there are so many guinea pigs for adoption from other sources.

 

[pinky]

Would it not be acceptable to get the big chains, like Petco, to do adoptions? Like I said, there don't seem to be real guinea pig rescues near me, just the few the humane society gets. Could we work towards, as a middle ground, adoptions only like they do with the cats and dogs? Are we trying to work with store managers on proper cages in store for the ones they are selling? Are there any baby steps we can take to improve things with the end goal still in mind? These are the things I need to have discussed I guess. I feel it's not a reasonable solution to just wait for the supply and demand stand to work because it leaves too many casualties. There has to more.

I just noticed that you're from MI. I grew up in Detroit and still have family in Canton, Wixom and Ann Arbor. There are a ton of rescues that carry guinea pigs near you. Westland, Rochester, Plymouth or Novi, Ann Arbor, Wyandotte. Look at shelters, rescues, animal control and you'll find a lot. I know that some of the rescues have volunteers who will move their animals to get them closer to you to adopt. There's no reason that you should need to buy from a pet store. You just need to keep watching Petfinder or contact them and ask them to contact you. It takes a little time and patience and that's not a big deal when you keep in mind it's a life we're talking about, not a simple purchase.

 

[Suzzanne]

And how do you personally plan to do your part to implement it and how will it be done? Tell me about your legal solutions? Did you know it's not even illegal to keep small pets locked in a car in MI? A case like that in MI was discussed on her a couple of years ago. Look at the large scale rescues where dog mills are shut down. It takes a lot of legislative power to enact the laws that make it legal to do so. And that's for dogs. AND what happens is those operations just move to another state where there laws aren't in place and have little chance of passing. Guinea pigs are transported to stores. They're not being bred in the back room at Petsmart and Petco. There is little hope that a type of law to stop breeding guinea pigs would be enforced considering that they are used in laboratory testing and for feeders. It's not going to happen. That's why you have to hit the stores that sell them in the pocketbook. It's so simple and doable, especially when there are so many guinea pigs for adoption from other sources.

Trying to boycott stores are not going to do anything, for over ten years I've read people saying to boycott pet stores and I have not seen a decress in stores, infact more have poped up. Plus like I said the end game will not work. People are thinking small. It's not just guinea pigs that are over populated and that are breed in unsafe factory's or in mills. If you live in America, then you know most people own pets . People of all kinds with all kinds of jobs. That can make a difference. If I knew how to start a web page To bring awareness I would. Writing to your goverment, signing petitions, rally, the list go's on. You have to look at it in the governments way of thinking, shutting down pet stores is not really a good stance. But changing the laws on breeding and how animals are housed is very do able. If the right people join in on it, it will improve your chancing and how fast it could take. I'm not saying it's a change that could happen over night, it may take years, but at least you know it's possible. We need breeders and pet stores if you want to keep having the kind of animals you have. It's sad but true. And it's not the pet stores or breeders that you have a issue with. It's the way they are housed and how they are not regulated enought before entering the pet stores. Your going after the middle man not the bad guy. If all the bird forums, dog forums, cat forums, guinea pig forums, suger glider forums, ect would to join forces can you imagine the possibilities? Your all working for the same goal why not try. It's better then buying your stuff offline ( which if you think about it, your still helping pet stores so I don't see how that makes a difference. It's just a pet store who sales on line in another state. Even if they don't sale pets on that web sites, who says they don't on one of their other websites.).

 

[Starthecavy123]

@Suzanne me and another member have actually made a Facebook group and page to do that very thing. Its called Cavy Owner's Unite:Against Breeders & Mills

 

[Suzzanne]

@Suzanne me and another member have actually made a Facebook group and page to do that very thing. Its called Cavy Owner's Unite:Against Breeders & Mills

Can you share the the URL .its not always easy to find pages even if you have the name lol

 

[Suzzanne]

Never mind found it!

 

[Starthecavy123]

Okay here's the link for the group.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/262882020560885

And here's the link for the page

www.facebook.com/adoptacavy

 

[Starthecavy123]

There's not much content as its still a work in progress.

 

[Suzzanne]

That's understandable, but if you want more people to be a part of it, you should add in others animals groups. Pinky was right in the fact that people don't see guinea pigs as a need to protect, but if you group it with every animal that is breed unfairly and have mills you can throw the net out wider. Still make guinea pigs your main project so they don't get swept under the carpet but start adding links or news reports of other animals going threw the same. Also you could join other forums and share your Facebook page to get the news put there. Also twitter can be your best friend. Tweet celebs like Leonardo who are big on animal rights . I think it's a amazing thing your doing and I hope it spreads fast!

 

[Starthecavy123]

I don't have Twitter

 

[pinky]

Trying to boycott stores are not going to do anything, for over ten years I've read people saying to boycott pet stores and I have not seen a decress in stores, infact more have poped up. Plus like I said the end game will not work. People are thinking small. It's not just guinea pigs that are over populated and that are breed in unsafe factory's or in mills. If you live in America, then you know most people own pets . People of all kinds with all kinds of jobs. That can make a difference. If I knew how to start a web page To bring awareness I would. Writing to your goverment, signing petitions, rally, the list go's on. You have to look at it in the governments way of thinking, shutting down pet stores is not really a good stance. But changing the laws on breeding and how animals are housed is very do able. If the right people join in on it, it will improve your chancing and how fast it could take. I'm not saying it's a change that could happen over night, it may take years, but at least you know it's possible. We need breeders and pet stores if you want to keep having the kind of animals you have. It's sad but true. And it's not the pet stores or breeders that you have a issue with. It's the way they are housed and how they are not regulated enought before entering the pet stores. Your going after the middle man not the bad guy. If all the bird forums, dog forums, cat forums, guinea pig forums, suger glider forums, ect would to join forces can you imagine the possibilities? Your all working for the same goal why not try. It's better then buying your stuff offline ( which if you think about it, your still helping pet stores so I don't see how that makes a difference. It's just a pet store who sales on line in another state. Even if they don't sale pets on that web sites, who says they don't on one of their other websites.).

The drug companies are very powerful and have the funds to continue using animals for research. I'm not sure how old you are, but I've been around long enough to have seen a huge difference in the attitude towards animals and the push to stop pet stores from selling live animals. I think there's hope for dogs but doubt that small animals will ever be impacted due to the small cost of breeding, low fee to buy them, value to the drug and medical communities and lack of money to investigate abuse cases. Rescues didn't exist when I was young. The guinea pig rescue I volunteer with was founded in 1999 and is probably one of the first. Rescues were one huge step in the right direction and often step in when a large scale rescue takes place. But, the problem isn't just those type of interventions. It's the mindset of individuals who think that pet stores are a good option for buying healthy pets. This country is over regulated the way it is. You're naive if you think that relying on the Federal government is the way to handle it. There are so many regulations in place that enforcement is lacking and it's almost a joke. Putting the government in charge of animal welfare will leave animals without a dimmer of hope. Locally, you can try and do something on a case by case situation but when you're dealing with global corporations, there's little you can do except not buy from them. It takes a change or mindset so that what's an easy "purchase" changes to a thoughtful process to consider the life of a small animal to have value beyond a sales receipt and a profit to a corporation. As far as website, buy from the sites that only sell products and aren't affiliated with pet stores. Don't step foot in the stores that sell animals or only purchase what cannot be bought elsewhere. Boycotts do work and it takes one person at a time.

 

[foggycreekcavy]

One of the small animal rescues here has adoption events at a local Petco regularly.

Our local Petcos invite me to their adoption events, but I decline. One reason is there is nothing at Petco that I would want my adopters to buy. There are so many pet supply stores around here to buy hay and pellets at that no one needs to go to the pet store to get their supplies. If people come to see me at Petco they might buy stuff there, and I don't want to contribute to stores that sell live animals.

I set up my adoption booth instead at the local pet supply stores.

 

[pinky]

Trying to boycott stores are not going to do anything, for over ten years I've read people saying to boycott pet stores and I have not seen a decress in stores, infact more have poped up. Plus like I said the end game will not work. People are thinking small. It's not just guinea pigs that are over populated and that are breed in unsafe factory's or in mills. If you live in America, then you know most people own pets . People of all kinds with all kinds of jobs. That can make a difference. If I knew how to start a web page To bring awareness I would. Writing to your goverment, signing petitions, rally, the list go's on. You have to look at it in the governments way of thinking, shutting down pet stores is not really a good stance. But changing the laws on breeding and how animals are housed is very do able. If the right people join in on it, it will improve your chancing and how fast it could take. I'm not saying it's a change that could happen over night, it may take years, but at least you know it's possible. We need breeders and pet stores if you want to keep having the kind of animals you have. It's sad but true. And it's not the pet stores or breeders that you have a issue with. It's the way they are housed and how they are not regulated enought before entering the pet stores. Your going after the middle man not the bad guy. If all the bird forums, dog forums, cat forums, guinea pig forums, suger glider forums, ect would to join forces can you imagine the possibilities? Your all working for the same goal why not try. It's better then buying your stuff offline ( which if you think about it, your still helping pet stores so I don't see how that makes a difference. It's just a pet store who sales on line in another state. Even if they don't sale pets on that web sites, who says they don't on one of their other websites.).

Buy from KM Hayloft, Drs. Foster and Smith, Fresh Pet Select and online stores that sell products only. What web sites sell pets?

I

 

[Suzzanne]

The drug companies are very powerful and have the funds to continue using animals for research. I'm not sure how old you are, but I've been around long enough to have seen a huge difference in the attitude towards animals and the push to stop pet stores from selling live animals. I think there's hope for dogs but doubt that small animals will ever be impacted due to the small cost of breeding, low fee to buy them, value to the drug and medical communities and lack of money to investigate abuse cases. Rescues didn't exist when I was young. The guinea pig rescue I volunteer with was founded in 1999 and is probably one of the first. Rescues were one huge step in the right direction and often step in when a large scale rescue takes place. But, the problem isn't just those type of interventions. It's the mindset of individuals who think that pet stores are a good option for buying healthy pets. This country is over regulated the way it is. You're naive if you think that relying on the Federal government is the way to handle it. There are so many regulations in place that enforcement is lacking and it's almost a joke. Putting the government in charge of animal welfare will leave animals without a dimmer of hope. Locally, you can try and do something on a case by case situation but when you're dealing with global corporations, there's little you can do except not buy from them. It takes a change or mindset so that what's an easy "purchase" changes to a thoughtful process to consider the life of a small animal to have value beyond a sales receipt and a profit to a corporation. As far as website, buy from the sites that only sell products and aren't affiliated with pet stores. Don't step foot in the stores that sell animals or only purchase what cannot be bought elsewhere. Boycotts do work and it takes one person at a time.

The Animal Welfare Act (AWA) (7 U.S.C. § 2131) is the only U.S. federal law that covers animals in research. (The federal Public Health Service Policy on the Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals covers animals in NIH-funded research through recommended policy only, not requirements. While it has the power to inspect, it relies on self-reporting.) Enacted in 1966, it regulates the care and use of animals in research, testing, teaching, exhibition, transport, and by dealers.
This is a start with animal testing, and was set in place because of people like us who stood up and took a stand. Animal testing use to be much much worse, but over time it's changed due to federal laws. And it keeps changing.
I'm 30 years old and have been involved in protection of all animals since I was a kid and joined PAWS (lol).
I'm not sure what changes on pet stores you could be taking about since places like pet-smart who was founded in 1986 but went public in 1994 and really made it big in 2000, As of May 2010, PetSmart operated approximately 1,160 stores and about 165 locations with PetsHotels and Doggie Day Camps. Many PetSmarts also contain Banfield Pet Hospital veterinary offices. Unless you are referring to mom and pop stores who went out of business because of big chains like pet-smart.
If you somehow changed the law or got enough people to shut down every pet store , what then? How will people get pets like cockatoos and guinea pigs unleash you buy them from back yard breeders, but how is that any different?
And I don't believe relying on our government to make a difference ( with the push of the people) is naive. That's how the laws have changed. That's why animals have more rights then they had before. And your right, we can't just sit back and wait for the government to do something, we the people have to rally and petition to make that change and the government makes it law, which then can be enforced.
How do you know that the website you buy from does not affiliate with any stores who sale animals. Or who don't support animal basics stores?

 

[Suzzanne]

Buy from KM Hayloft, Drs. Foster and Smith, Fresh Pet Select and online stores that sell products only. What web sites sell pets?

I

If these websites also sale to pet stores, then you are still supporting the pet stores. I'm not saying there is not any good websites out there who sale just products. I'm saying there are to many people who either do not own a computer or credit card that will still buy from pet stores. We have a feed store called atwoods and they still sell rabbits and ducks ect. Even walmarts sale fish and some even small mice, and lizards. It maybe possible to shrink the a month sold at pet stores but not enough to put big corporations out.

 

[bpatters]

I don't have time to really post my thought about this, but I wanted to throw out one point that I haven't seen discussed.

Pets are loss leaders for pet stores. They don't make any money off of them, and they often lose money on them. They make their money off the other items they sell that pet owners buy. The reason they keep selling them is because of the impulse buys -- some kid demands a cute pet, and the parent buys it and all the paraphenalia that goes with it, and the store makes a profit. If the pet weren't in there, looking adorable, the rest of the stuff would remain unsold.

One way to address that is to encourage online purchases. Many of us do that anyway, simply because of location or because we'd rather not support the big box pet stores. But if enough people stopped the in-store purchases of the things they want for their pets, there'd be some more leverage to get the stores to stop selling the animals.

Cavyspirit was involved in trying to get the laws governing sales of pets in stores in California changed. I don't have time to look for the thread, but it was an incredibly hard effort, and they were fought at every turn by the big corporations with the big money in their pockets. You can possibly find it by searching for it.

 

[pinky]

The Animal Welfare Act (AWA) (7 U.S.C. § 2131) is the only U.S. federal law that covers animals in research. (The federal Public Health Service Policy on the Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals covers animals in NIH-funded research through recommended policy only, not requirements. While it has the power to inspect, it relies on self-reporting.) Enacted in 1966, it regulates the care and use of animals in research, testing, teaching, exhibition, transport, and by dealers.
This is a start with animal testing, and was set in place because of people like us who stood up and took a stand. Animal testing use to be much much worse, but over time it's changed due to federal laws. And it keeps changing.
I'm 30 years old and have been involved in protection of all animals since I was a kid and joined PAWS (lol).
I'm not sure what changes on pet stores you could be taking about since places like pet-smart who was founded in 1986 but went public in 1994 and really made it big in 2000, As of May 2010, PetSmart operated approximately 1,160 stores and about 165 locations with PetsHotels and Doggie Day Camps. Many PetSmarts also contain Banfield Pet Hospital veterinary offices. Unless you are referring to mom and pop stores who went out of business because of big chains like pet-smart.
If you somehow changed the law or got enough people to shut down every pet store , what then? How will people get pets like cockatoos and guinea pigs unleash you buy them from back yard breeders, but how is that any different?
And I don't believe relying on our government to make a difference ( with the push of the people) is naive. That's how the laws have changed. That's why animals have more rights then they had before. And your right, we can't just sit back and wait for the government to do something, we the people have to rally and petition to make that change and the government makes it law, which then can be enforced.
How do you know that the website you buy from does not affiliate with any stores who sale animals. Or who don't support animal basics stores?

"Somehow changed the laws...." Exactly my point. This country has a lot of serious issues and is deeply in debt. Animal welfare is low on the list of priorities. Sure, there are regulations for animals to be consumed as food or in drug testing but animals don't have rights that people and never will no matter how hard groups like PETA try. The number of people who have compassion for small or exotic pets are nowhere near the numbers of those who are dog and cat enthusiasts. Guinea pigs are a food staple for a growing number in the U.S. If you're thinking PETA protection for guinea pigs, it's not going to happen. Just stop buying them.

 

[pinky]

I don't have time to really post my thought about this, but I wanted to throw out one point that I haven't seen discussed.

Pets are loss leaders for pet stores. They don't make any money off of them, and they often lose money on them. They make their money off the other items they sell that pet owners buy. The reason they keep selling them is because of the impulse buys -- some kid demands a cute pet, and the parent buys it and all the paraphenalia that goes with it, and the store makes a profit. If the pet weren't in there, looking adorable, the rest of the stuff would remain unsold.

One way to address that is to encourage online purchases. Many of us do that anyway, simply because of location or because we'd rather not support the big box pet stores. But if enough people stopped the in-store purchases of the things they want for their pets, there'd be some more leverage to get the stores to stop selling the animals.

Cavyspirit was involved in trying to get the laws governing sales of pets in stores in California changed. I don't have time to look for the thread, but it was an incredibly hard effort, and they were fought at every turn by the big corporations with the big money in their pockets. You can possibly find it by searching for it.

bpatter, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Sometimes people don't realize those things have been tried over and over again with no success. Buying online takes profits from the pet stores that sell live pets which does make a difference.

 

[Suzzanne]

"Somehow changed the laws...." Exactly my point. This country has a lot of serious issues and is deeply in debt. Animal welfare is low on the list of priorities. Sure, there are regulations for animals to be consumed as food or in drug testing but animals don't have rights that people and never will no matter how hard groups like PETA try. The number of people who have compassion for small or exotic pets are nowhere near the numbers of those who are dog and cat enthusiasts. Guinea pigs are a food staple for a growing number in the U.S. If you're thinking PETA protection for guinea pigs, it's not going to happen. Just stop buying them.

what? I don't understand your post...
I asked what would be your ending game with shutting down pet stores, and where would you get your pets?
and if you really believe what you posted, then why try saving any animal..since it's all a lost cause. Oh besides dogs and cats... I'm not trying to make anyone made, I really just don't understand your point in this last post.

 

[Princess_Piggie]

Just adding my two cents, bear in mind I skipped some posts since they where a bit long winded and my brain couldn't quite process them though.

The argument of 'where will you get your pets when they aren't being bred and sold' seems a little tired in my opinion. I mean, no pet store in the UK sells dogs, and we haven't exactly ran out. Our shelters are overflowing with them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if it ever became an issue that the world was 'running out' of guinea pigs, they would be bred, by people who have experience and compassion, i.e people who wouldn't breed an older sow, that wouldn't breed two roans, things like that. But that's simply not the case as of yet, the world has plenty of guinea pigs and there's no need to add more, or to encourage pet stores to add more. Bottom line, there's no instance in which it would be a positive thing for guinea pigs as a species to be bred currently, there would only be detrimental effects.

I feel like I agree with what OP's saying though, pet store animals can't just be left on the side as collateral damage, but I'm also not sure there's a whole lot can be done. I mean, I have a petition up and running to have household breeding of pigs banned in the UK, and I only buy supplies on line, so other than that, there's not a lot I can do as an individual.