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Feeder Guinea Pigs

pinky

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I could never own a snake. It's one thing for a reptile to catch their prey outdoors but feeding live animals to them in a cage bothers me. I saw a Craigslist ad requesting unwanted guinea pigs, hamsters and bunnies today. Raised a red flag for me...
 

Ghost_Peanut

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@cavykaitlyn you will notice how a serial killer on death row gets treated as a king; free rent, free food, and a few last wishes and a good meal before they are humanly put down...yet many innocent animals are abused/neglected because they are going to "die anyway". It's messed up!!!!!
 

cavykaitlyn

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It is absolutely insane! Have we not a heart for our fellow friends? We are all they have after they have been domesticated. These kinds of animals just can't survive outside. And we abuse and misuse them, time and time again!
 

CanadianComforts

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I don't have time to read threw the whole thread (kids nap time) but I wanted to lay my $0.02 and I'm sorry if anything I say is a repeat of others.

My mom has ball pythons and I know a few people who do rescue work with snakes (huge pythons to small king snakes). The number one thing "good" snake breeders and rescue people agree on is that live prey is wrong. The only exception is wild caught snakes, and even those snakes can be weaned onto pre killed food.

The reasons are pretty simple, live animals will try to get away/defend themselves. Bites on snakes can lead to HUGE and deadly infections. In most causes the snakes that get bit die from these infections, usually after long painful days, weeks or even months. People who feed live to snakes (non wild caught) are usually bad owners or people looking for a "good thrill".

My mom raises gerbils for her snakes (she has two ball pythons). This is because of three reasons. 1. Rats are illegal to own in Alberta. 2. My dad is terrified of live rats. 3. Frozen rats in stores cost her 95+ a month depending on how many she needs and most are sold in pet stores that sell pets.

Her gerbils are well cared for, proper cages, food and so on. She humanely kills them and if one of her snakes is ill she will humanely kill one first and use it right away to get the snake to eat. She does a lot of work to try and get bad snake owners educated on the dangers of live feeding.
 

Ghost_Peanut

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@CanadianComforts your post is very refreshing to read. Thanks for contributing and giving your own personal experience. It makes sense from a snake owners perspective now why live food can be harmful. I will also agree with you that some snake owners will feed live for the "thrill". I've seen many YouTube videos on live feeds and you can always hear laughing or some sort or cheering going on in the background.
Live rodents/frozen ones seem awful expensive too.
I really appreciate your post.
 

pinky

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I saw this ad on craigslist:

(broken link removed)

The same person lists reptile tanks...... ugh.....
 

ThePigSlave

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Imagine a scene like this and you will immediately be against feeder guinea pigs:
Three guinea pigs sit, squealing for freedom. Each one has been carefully stacked on top of each other to take up the least amount of room. In a reptile tank across from them, the blinding heat lamps spotlight a long, scaly, venomous snake. He coils around his current prey as his owner watches adoringly. The snake's grip tightens, and the guinea pig goes limp as the snake chows down. The three guinea pigs, doomed to this fate, squirm in the limiting confines of their soggy, pitch-black box.
These three are lucky. By some piece of luck (at least for the guinea pigs), the snake passes, and their "services" are no longer needed. The owner of the snake dumps the guinea pigs on a rescuer. One of these guinea pigs is named Pumpkin. She holds a piece of my heart today, and can be seen to the right of my profile picture. She is the sweetest thing I have ever known. These guinea pigs could have homes, but alas, they are all doomed to the same fate.
I understand that everything has to eat, but there are alternatives out there. As a kid, I am doing my best to stay vegan to some degree in a house of cow-milk drinkers and bacon-chowers ;). Yes, some snakes do have to eat meat, but why guinea pigs? In my opinion, if you are going to feed a guinea pig to a snake, there should be some sort of code.
1.) You may only use guinea pigs that are too sick to save, and are going to be put down anyway.
2.) They should be humanely euthanized, AND THEN fed to the snake. Giving a live guinea pig to be killed by a snake is in no way fair. You are taking a life here, not JUST feeding your snake. At least give the common courtesy to the pig to humanely euthanize, and then feed. Better yet, don't feed guinea pigs at all. I am sure that you can find some alternative. Think soy or almond milk, but for guinea pigs :p
 

doganddisc

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Imagine a scene like this and you will immediately be against feeder guinea pigs:
Three guinea pigs sit, squealing for freedom. Each one has been carefully stacked on top of each other to take up the least amount of room. In a reptile tank across from them, the blinding heat lamps spotlight a long, scaly, venomous snake. He coils around his current prey as his owner watches adoringly. The snake's grip tightens, and the guinea pig goes limp as the snake chows down.

The vast majority of venomous snakes don't constrict their prey- that's what the venom is for ;)

The three guinea pigs, doomed to this fate, squirm in the limiting confines of their soggy, pitch-black box.

You're assuming that all people with snakes treat rodents this way when that is simply not the case.


I understand that everything has to eat, but there are alternatives out there. As a kid, I am doing my best to stay vegan to some degree in a house of cow-milk drinkers and bacon-chowers ;). Yes, some snakes do have to eat meat, but why guinea pigs?

Oy, really? And rat owners say "But why rats?", rabbit owners say "But why rabbits?", mouse owners say "But why mice?". Some snakes will only eat guinea pig. Some will only eat mice. Heck, my pinstripe ball python went through a phase where he would only eat gerbil.

In my opinion, if you are going to feed a guinea pig to a snake, there should be some sort of code.
1.) You may only use guinea pigs that are too sick to save, and are going to be put down anyway.
2.) They should be humanely euthanized, AND THEN fed to the snake. Giving a live guinea pig to be killed by a snake is in no way fair. You are taking a life here, not JUST feeding your snake. At least give the common courtesy to the pig to humanely euthanize, and then feed. Better yet, don't feed guinea pigs at all. I am sure that you can find some alternative. Think soy or almond milk, but for guinea pigs :p

This is just so silly.

1) You cannot possibly find enough sick and "about to be put down" guinea pigs to feed all of the snakes that need them for food.

2) Some snakes will not eat frozen food. I "rescued" (purchased for very cheap) a ball python from a person who insisted that he wouldn't eat frozen food. The poor thing was half starved. It took me a few months to get him back up to the weight he should be at (he's rather plump now :p). Most of that was- you guessed it- live food. We had a breakthrough recently where he accepted frozen prey as long as it is freshly killed. I'll go with that- it is MUCH safer for the snake to eat frozen or pre-killed food. One of my Rainbow Boas could tell you all about that- she is missing an eye because a mouse bit her when she constricted it. $400 in vet bills later and I learned an expensive and painful lesson about feeding live food.
 

Ghost_Peanut

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The thought of having a "pet" that would not hesitate to eat you scared me. Can any snake owners out there explain to me why one would want a large snake as "pet"?
 

doganddisc

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The thought of having a "pet" that would not hesitate to eat you scared me. Can any snake owners out there explain to me why one would want a large snake as "pet"?

Snakes don't usually eat people. There have very few documented cases of a snake consuming a person and the majority of those involved WILD reticulated pythons.

There have been significantly more reported cases where snakes have killed a person without consuming them- but then, there are also plenty of cases where dogs have killed a person as well.

I love my snakes. They are calm pets, very therapeutic to hold and absolutely stunning creatures. I don't know if we're allowed to share photos of snakes on this site so I won't- but google Brazilian Rainbow Boas. Now THAT is a beautiful animal :)
 

ThePigSlave

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@doganddisc
I don't see things that way. I am not saying that all feeder animals are treated that way. I am saying that that was how my guinea pig, Pumpkin, was treated before coming to the rescue. I did not mean it as an attack on all snake owners. This thread is mainly about the maltreatment of the feeder animals. My guinea pig was in one of the worst case scenarios.
Onto the response on my "code"
Perhaps it was not worded properly so that you could understand the message I was trying to send.
1.)I was saying that animals that were going to be euthanized by owners should be used BEFORE killing perfectly healthy animals. At least those that would donate their animal to save others.
2.)The animals should not be given to the snake in a live form. Rather, you should humanely, and quickly, kill them before feeding them to the snakes. You said that your snake would accept "frozen prey as long as it was freshly killed". Therefore, I am assuming that your snake would eat freshly killed, non-frozen foods.
3.) The two above were supposed to be "either or" situations. Not both. Therefore, I can see why that was not worded properly and could be fixed. I apologize but that it out of my control now.

@CanadianComforts mentioned how her mother raises her own prey and then humanely kills them before feeding them to her snakes. This is nicer to the animal itself, and the way I believe it should be done.

On a happier note: I apologize that I am not up-to-date on my snake terminology. I am a guinea pig person myself, so I have not exactly researched snakes and their behavioral patterns intently :p
 

doganddisc

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1.)I was saying that animals that were going to be euthanized by owners should be used BEFORE killing perfectly healthy animals. At least those that would donate their animal to save others.

Which is all fine and good, but also remember that a sick animal being fed to a healthy snake could then make that snake sick as well. And how many people are going to keep a guinea pig for its entire life and then allow it to be fed to snake? Not many.

2.)The animals should not be given to the snake in a live form. Rather, you should humanely, and quickly, kill them before feeding them to the snakes. You said that your snake would accept "frozen prey as long as it was freshly killed". Therefore, I am assuming that your snake would eat freshly killed, non-frozen foods.

LOL I hope that isn't what I said because that doesn't make sense (I'm laughing at me, not you- it was 2 am when I wrote that). Freshly killed and frozen are two different things- a mouse that has been killed and then frozen is not "freshly killed". It took my snake about two months to figure out that he could eat something that was already dead. He was literally starving to death when I got him because of his refusing to eat anything but live food (the person who had him before me tried a little too hard to get him to eat frozen thawed).

Here he is when I got him. See how his backbone is prominent? His entire body was triangle shaped- he was way too thin!

20215_4284412861437_1246221267_n.jpg


Here he is today (literally today because I just took this :p ):

562115_490432547673157_1026278375_n.jpg

Keeping a pet snake healthy is just as important as the welfare of the animals being fed to it. I am so very gunshy about feeding live because of what happened to my rainbow boa's eye (I'll spare you all the gory details but let's just say she is half blind now- still sweet, just terrible aim when she strikes). If you're going to feed live it should be out of necessity and you should know what you are doing. Otherwise both prey and predator suffer.
 

ThePigSlave

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@doganddisc : haha I was wondering about that too :p By the way, your snake is gorgeous. While I prefer not to own them I still consider them beautiful creatures.
 

pawner69

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I have a pirahhna and he eats about 50 goldfish a week. I know goldfish are not fuzzy and cuddly like mice and guinea pigs, but its really the same thing. If your guinea pig food was alive are you saying you would not feed your piggies? Of course you are not. I think its just the way people perceive the "feeders". If I had mice as pets and also had a snake, I don't think I would have a issue giving "feeder" mice to my snake. BUT, since I don't have mice or a snake, I really don't know. Anyhow, since I had a pet that needs live food I thought I would throw my 2 cents into the boiling pot. :) We have had our pirahhna for 15 years. They are pretty amazing to watch. And yes, its a bit sad if he doesn't bite the fish correctly and it gets a big chunk taken out without killing it, but the reality is that is life. Again...just my opinion.
 

ThePigSlave

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@doganddisc : referring to the first part of your response. People put down their animals all the time for reasons like "I don't want them anymore" or "they are too old". I was not aware that guinea pig diseases (at least, all of them) were transmittable to snakes. The ones that passed because of diseases transmittable to snakes should not be fed. I figured that would be assumed when reading the statement. However, I am sure that there are some guinea pig diseases that are not transmittable to snakes.
 

doganddisc

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I think a lot of people here would actually be surprised about how much reptile owners respect their pet's food. There was a good discussion about ethical food raising on the Ball Python forums that I am a member of.

My mice (and some rats) are bred for food but also kept as pets. They are healthy, given the best quality food, exercise, and lots of treats (some of them might be little bit fat :p ). I personally hate seeing any animal of any species mistreated, regardless of what their "purpose" is.
 

doganddisc

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(I should add that I had mice way before I had snakes)
 

Raine Summerfly

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I actually have always liked snakes and considered getting one at one point except for the fact that not everyone I live with likes them so that's why I could never get one.

However, I personally wouldn't own a snake that couldn't be fed the pre-dead frozen mice/rats that you can buy. Some places sell pre-dead frozen mice and rats that you thaw out and then feed to the snake. Not all snakes will eat something that is already dead though, so I'd have to make sure I know beforehand that the snake I'm getting would take pre-dead rodents.

I know it's sad still in a way but at the same time snakes don't have the option of going vegan even...they are complete carnivores and really can't eat anything else. And buying them pre-dead would be a bit more like how most people buy meat at the store.

Not to mention that when I see people purchasing rodents that are already dead to feed to their snakes at least I know that they don't own the snake for some kind of sadistic reason. They don't own it because they want to see it kill things. They own it because they appreciate the snake for other reasons than watching it kill things.

A lot of the live feeding videos on YouTube seem to be posted by people who think it's entertaining to watch the snake kill something. To me that feels a lot like people who own dogs for the reason of fighting them. They just want to see violence. I'm sure there are some videos out there that are more for educational purposes but that's not the feeling I get from a lot of those live feed videos on YouTube. Some of those videos even have people LAUGHING at watching the rodent get killed by the snake.

I worry about the snakes too that are owned by those people because it seems to me like they don't really care much about animals in general and therefore once they get bored of the snake, who knows what will happen to it then.

There's also the fact that if you feed live animals to a snake it can injure the snake. Some rodents can give a pretty bad bite with their teeth when they are being killed...that's when they are going to bite the hardest. I don't think they could ever kill the snake but they could give it a nasty scar. This can't happen if you feed the snake pre-dead animal. I mean I do know that some snakes won't eat stuff that is already dead but if that is the case, I don't know why people can't put the rodent in the cage and then leave the room....why stand there and watch it? And even if they're going to watch it, why FILM it? Seriously? It's just why I feel like a lot of those people who upload videos of it are just sadistic and like to watch something get killed.

Snakes don't deserve to be hated for what they do....I think people should look at the owners and wonder why they film this stuff.

I've seen a lot of nature programs in which a snake kills something but I never get the same feeling from those videos...those are always more educational and don't give off the feeling of someone just wanting to see something get killed(not to mention the prey animals in the wild do have a real chance of being able to escape....their fate is not pre-determined). A lot of wild rodents also carry diseases and snakes just level it all out more. Snakes are widely hated and killed and misunderstood by a lot of people. It's another thing I hate about these videos....those videos, in my opinion, actually promote more hatred for snakes by showing the very thing that most people don't like about them(the fact that they kill other living things - and in the cases of these videos, animals that most people consider to be beloved pets)....and hearing people laughing in the background of those live feeding videos makes it very easy for people to just hate the snake. It's not the snake's fault though and it's not evil. It's just doing what it does.....and sadly I think a lot of those people just like the snake for the sake of watching it kill something. That makes me worried for the snake too, since it's just a tool/entertainment thing to these people. I'm not saying that everyone who feeds their snakes live prey is like this, as I know some snakes only eat live animals and so that ends up being what you have to feed them...but certainly filming it the way a lot of these people do makes me worried.
 

Rhyue

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I've see a lot of people ragging on snake owners the last while on this site but almost never see posts targeting more "normal" pets and their owners who are likely doing worse. Yes I believe raising animals in poor conditions and feeding them live (if its not an absolute necessity) or killing them in cruel ways is wrong, but I don't think the feeding of animals is inherently wrong. Its natural and sometimes unavoidable. I've volunteered with both domestic and wild animal shelters- in the wild shelters sometimes you have to raise "feeder" animals to rehabilitate the wild ones, birds of prey need their meat, owls need the whole mice for example. Shelters are often highly limited by their funds and buying feeders all the time can be out of the question, so you have to breed your own. Besides, there are far worse, and far more common things going on than a few assholes feeding live animals to their snakes for the fun of it.

For example, so many people think it is okay to let their pets run around loose outside (even if they're not fixed). Even worse is how little people seem to care, or that they think (especially in the case of cats) that not doing that is cruel for their animal. There was a fellow at another place I volunteer at, reminiscing about his dog, who wasn't fixed, running about impregnating the other dogs in the area, and acting PROUD of it. Like that's my boy, he was such a stud, and no one seemed to be upset about this.

With cats no matter how cute and fluffy it might be, if you let it outside there is a good chance it will kill things (at least 30% of outdoor pet cats kill, on average, 2 or more animals per week). And it likely wont even eat them, THAT is cruel in my mind. Wild animals shouldn't be having to face your pet, they've got enough to deal with already, and they're not part of its natural food-chain. Then if they don't die immediately, they're injured, suffer, and die from something else, or they're rescued and put strain on wildlife shelters. This is a completely avoidable death and they're often prolonged deaths (have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse?). The maybe a minute a snake would take to kill a live animal (which I'm still not condoning feeding) is far less cruel than what many cats put their prey through. It is estimated cats, in the US alone, kill over 4 billion animals a year. 4 BILLION, and these aren't animals raised to be food, these are wild animals and their deaths could be messing up ecosystems or endangering species.

Its also dangerous to your animal, be it dogs, coyotes, cars, even other individuals of the same species. Many people seem to forget the spread of disease. Cats get AIDs. You let your animal outside, it can easily contract feline aids. Sexually, fighting, sniffing noises, getting spit on, even stepping in infected fluids and cleaning their paw can cause them to contract FIV (feline version of HIV). Do you want to expose your animal to this? It can bring it home to other cats as well, and potentially infect later adopts after your infected pet passes. There are plenty of other potentially fatal diseases too.

Humanly raising feeder animals, killing them humanely and feeding them to a herp isn't nearly as bad in my mind. Do I dislike cats? Not at all, I think they're wonderful critters, I just don't think their place is outside, especially so when not supervised, for their safety, other pets, and that of wildlife.

I'd also like to mention that people looking for animals on craigslist to feed to their pets may still kill the animal humanely before feeding, they might just be looking for a cheaper alternative than the store. Would I want my pets fed to a snake? No, of course not, that's why if god forbid I had to rehome, I'd make sure I'd put an adopting fee and screen potential adopters to avoid people who just want them to feed to something else. But does everyone care? Likely not. Enough people let their pets go outside to speak for that.

I've read a few posts about only feeding diseased/dying animals/death row animals. Other than the last option the other two boarder between impossible and cruel. It should be noted the last option is effectively getting free pets off craigslist anyway. Most pets that aren't adopted and end up at a normal shelter, will likely be put down and then destroyed, never to be used by another animal, and just become landfill or ashes, which is a real waste (both in terms of their life, and their bodies). When it comes to diseased or dying animals (say from old age) it could be cruel to leave the animals suffering while finding someone who wants to take them, humanely kill them, and feed them to their pet. Sure you could freeze them in the mean time to put them out of their misery, but many people want or need them fresh. Also, people who've kept their pets long enough to die of old age are unlikely to give up their pet at the end to be fed to something, they'd probably prefer to be there for its last moments and bury it or get it cremated. Additionally, most of the carnivorous pet owners likely wouldn't want to feed diseased/dying pets since, well, that just isn't appealing. Maybe they would eat the inferior animals in the wild, but these aren't wild animals and the disease could be infectious. I ask cat/dog owners, if you saw a bag of food that said "Contains meat products from only diseased or dying animals" would you really want to buy that? Do you think other people would? I wouldn't personally, even if its likely processed through the roof I still don't know what they were sick/dying from and wouldn't want to risk exposing my pet to the potential rare disease that could make mine ill. Sure they're probably already in my pet's food, but its a bit different being the main component. If you don't like that idea why would you subject another pet owner (and their animal) to that?
 

oldnewie

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I would like to post a "thanks for your useful post" to all of you. We all agree how vital it is to treat all animals humanely, no matter what & where they are. Live feeding to pet snakes is, to me personally, unneccessary & cruel, but I don't hold that against them. Just as they are beautiful with their gorgeous colours & patterns, they still make me shudder! So do alligators,crocs,sharks,vultures , pirahanas - yet I admire & respect their beauty & wildness. In fact, all creatures are beautiful!

Those who are cruel, uncompassionate, inhumane to creatures, in every aspect, are anathema and must somehow be stopped. Sadly though, I can't help but feel that as long as humans choose to be like that, an end to it is unkikely. But we choose to actively hope & do what we are able to help. I could go on & on; there's so much to be said by all of us, but I'll sign off now.
 
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