Breeding while "rescuing?"

[CavyKind]

Hi all,
My name is Barbara and I live in the UK where I run a a small guinea pig rescue/welfare called "Cavykind." I do not breed guineas, never have and never will.

I am becoming increasingly concerned at the number of guinea pig breeders who are also setting themselves up as "guinea pig rescues" one who lived very near to me used to take in unwanted guineas while at the same time breeding to supply the local pet shops. Thankfully she no longer takes in animals....as far as I am aware. Another one a few miles away, bred, showed guineas, professed to be a rescuer but also supplied the local pet store chain with pigs. The frustarting tragedy is that there is nothing anyone can do about it...they are doing nothing illegal. But it's a convenient way to pass on their unwanted "stock."

I gave up rescue for a short break but have started up again as I feel that without the genuine rescue peeps, things can only get worse for vulnerable unwanted guineas. Sorry to sound off on my first post on the board..but I'm getting so mad....there seems to be an increasing trend here. Anyone else noticed this?

Barbara

 

[dansamy]

I think part of the definition of "responsible breeder" includes receiving your animals back if they do not work out in their new homes.

I do not have a strong negative/positive opinion of breeding. I do however think that if you choose to breed, you need to be well-prepared for the outcomes/consequences of it. Personally, I won't breed animals.

 

[rabbitsncavyluv]

I don't consider them rescuers if they breed.

 

[CupidCavies]

So really what you's are saying is you can either breed or rescue but not both? Well I started rescueing first then I bought in my own stock to show and breed from but I 'DO NOT' breed from the rescues and my own babies do not go as rescues. The rescues are kept in one shed and my own are kept in another. I always prefer to get a rescue rehomed firstly as I do not have many of my own babies to sell. Why can people not do both?
ps I do not let my babies go to pet shops either.

 

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Because it really defeats the cause if you are breeding. For every pig you breed and sell, you take a home away from one you could have rescued or did rescue. Every spot you have for a breeder pig, you could have rescued another pig.

I know of breeders who consider themselves rescuers because they take back their returns. I know of breeders who do breed their rescues every once in awhile.

Heck, Petco says they have an adoption program because if you return any purchased pig after 15 days, they don't refund your money, but do take the pig back place the pig in their 'adoption' program.

If you are rescuing, you acknowledge that there are homeless animals out there, ones in bad homes, dying in shelters, yet you are still going to breed? I don't get it.

 

[DaCourt]

Don't breed. Period!

 

[Katie]

In the dog and cat world, you are not a reputable breeder if you do not rescue, or you are not involved in rescue in some fashion. I consider it the same for guinea pigs.

 

[CavySpirit]

CupidCavies, I'm curious to know if you will share with us how you came to register and post today on this forum. You're a UK breeder who keeps pigs in outdoor sheds, so, probably not a big fan of C&C cages. Probably not a big fan of the anti-breeding positions of this board and site. You've provided no information about yourself on your profile--not that it's required--but most people who are interested in participating on the forum usually share some of their info. I'm assuming someone gave you a heads up about this thread and here you are. Just curious.

 

[CavySpirit]

IF a breeder is one of those rare birds, "a responsible breeder," then they should, of course, be taking back their 'returns,' and they should be on first name basis with the shelters and other rescues in their area. They should be willing to help out the rescues and shelters on an as-needed basis. They should be qualifying their customer's homes to a higher standard than the best rescue. But, they are still a breeder first. They are not a breeder/rescue.

There a number of problems with the model. First, I have yet to hear of a responsible breeder in the guinea pig world. A few have come close. So, you've got varying degrees of irresponsible breeders claiming or thinking they do rescue.

A typical problem is the intended or unintended bait and switch. Breeder poses more as a rescue, thereby making people feel good about getting their animals. Also, a breeder 'advertises' some pigs as 'rescues' when in fact, they are not. They are their culls or even returns. After all, grey area on THAT definition, isn't there? And even with the best of intentions, there is the unintentional bait and switch scenario. Adopter sees the animals for adoption. Not happy with any of them. Oh well, if you insist, I have these wonderful other piggies for sale. Adopter becomes customer. This happens all the time with breeder/so-called rescuer combinations. Had the pigs been at a true rescue, they would have gotten adopted and the demand for breeder's pigs would not have increased. Instead, the homeless pig sits and the breeder's pig gets sold, making room for a new breeder pig.

 

[fawnmarie]

Personally, I don't "GET" pet animal breeding at all!

I love my pets - they're just some more of my kids, just furrier. They darn well better move out before they start breeding! (The human ones, that is.)

I don't understand why anyone would want to put themselves through all that, much less the animals themselves. And from a completely cold standpoint, I don't see how they make any money out of pet breeding, either. I just don't get it.

My mom had a basenji and she bred her once, and kept one of the puppies and showed both of them. And it was wonderful having all those wonderful puppies around, but BOY was it a lot of work (and noise and smell). I know she never did it twice.

Fawn

 

[Access]

I think the only 'good' breeders are the type like some zoos and animal parks who are doing what they can to get an endangered species numbers back to the point where they can be re-introduced into the wild.

Otherwise, being a breeder is totally in opposition to being a rescue. The breeding is creating the problem that the rescues are trying to solve. It's completely twisted logic when one is helping to create the same problem one is trying to solve. If I run a drug rehab clinic by day, but sell drugs by night, does that make me a good person? Hardly, it makes me duplicitious and hypocritical.

If a good person realises they are intentionally doing something bad, they ought to stop the bad thing rather than try to justify or offset it.

Breeders make money in volume. Remember the thread about the breeder who died and left behind 500 pigs? I don't think it's _extremely_ profitable, but there is profit to be made with a solid business model, otherwise people wouldn't be doing it. 'Solid business model' is horrible for the pigs though. One person can't realistically be expected to care for that many pigs, not if the pigs are to have any real quality of life that is.

 

[CavyKind]

In the dog and cat world, you are not a reputable breeder if you do not rescue, or you are not involved in rescue in some fashion. I consider it the same for guinea pigs.

Perhaps breeders who sell on their surplus stock to petshops and in the local free ad papers could donate a percentage to their local guinea pig rescue?

 

[DaCourt]

I can't think of any reputable rescue that would take money from a breeder. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

 

[CavyKind]

I can't think of any reputable rescue that would take money from a breeder. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

I wasn't really being serious! I certainly wouldn't take it...

 

[CavyKind]

There is one UK "rescue person" who now claims to be solely involved in rescue....however her "stud" website where she is advertising guineas and rabbits for sale is still online. When I asked her why her why, she stated that the reason was she couldn't be bothered to take it down.
She claims that she hasn't been involved with "her own" guineas and rabbits for the past 6 months and now takes in for the RSPCA, yet only a couple of weeks ago she was advertising guinea pigs for sale on a "cavy breeder" site! A few she said were "rescues"....the rest she was rather more hazy about, adults and babies. One of the sows, she was selling, she "recommended" shouldn't be bred from!

She is now posting on a rescue site...as a rescue...but states... "If you are looking for something particular let me know"

Excuse me if you think I am overly cynical...

 

[sasha]

I am not familiar with guinea pig showing, and only know about dogs because my mother's friend who rescues has done agility shows with some of her dogs (she does not breed, she gets quite a lot of surrenders with the proper papers)So is the following also true of guinea pig showing?

Most people that breed dogs will never go to some of the larger shows that truly have the best dogs, but they do know of them. If there is better stock out there that they know of, and they are breeding mid level dogs, they are not improving the gene pool by breeding. So spend thousands on a true champion if you are really itching to sentence a shelter puppy to death, or shut up about it, a mutt is healthier anyway most of the time. Not to mention, if you want to show, you don't have to breed, even rescues get dogs with papers. I realize that some kennel clubs require that show dogs not be altered, but I'm sure you could find an owner give up or the occassional rescue that would consider that you were specifically trying not to breed.

excuses, excuses

 

[Access]

With dogs, I presume by 'agility' shows you mean the type that any dog can enter based on skill alone (obidience, tricks, course, etc.) and not the breed/type of dog. These types of shows don't exist for guinea pigs. Guinea pig shows are based solely on how well your pig conforms to the human-made ideal of breed type and ideal. The pig does nothing more than sit there and get examined by judges. Natural pig behaviors (eating, chewing, pooping, etc.) will score negative points, so a pig is often starved before the show.

Different breeds have different features that have come into being through many years and generations of human-selective reproduction. A coronet has a single rosette, placement of the rosette (location and symetry) is important and will score or lose points. Sometimes these features are detrimental to the pig itself, see the thread on 'lethal' guinea pigs for more info.

Non-altered is good, I have seen too many great dane's with their ears messed up from multiple operations or other dogs with tails missing, etc.

 

[VoodooJoint]

Non-altered is good, I have seen too many great dane's with their ears messed up from multiple operations or other dogs with tails missing, etc.

By non-altered they mean not spayed or neutered. Mutilating dogs by cutting off their ears and/or tails/dew claws and "show cut nails" is the norm with show dogs.

I know with great danes (and I'm sure other breeds) people actually believe that cutting off half of the dog's ear then subjecting it to months of painful taping of the cut ears into an erect position to "train" the cartilage is thought to give the dog a more noble head structure.

I owned 2 great danes (still have one) and neither of them ever suffered cosmetic surgery for my vainity. It's a barbaric practice.

 

[Access]

Yeah it's horrible, many great danes end up thrown away by the owners since the ear operation is botched. But it's apparently a pretty standard thing with owners who want that 'look'. I was astounded to learn that people would even do that to a dog, but then, most animals are like children to me so...

 

[CavyKind]

There is one UK "rescue person" who now claims to be solely involved in rescue....however her "stud" website where she is advertising guineas and rabbits for sale is still online. When I asked her why her why, she stated that the reason was she couldn't be bothered to take it down.
She claims that she hasn't been involved with "her own" guineas and rabbits for the past 6 months and now takes in for the RSPCA, yet only a couple of weeks ago she was advertising guinea pigs for sale on a "cavy breeder" site! A few she said were "rescues"....the rest she was rather more hazy about, adults and babies. One of the sows, she was selling, she "recommended" shouldn't be bred from!

Well can you believe it, a guinea rescue friend has just emailed me to check out a cavy breeder/show site....and here is the above "rescuer" again....
This time selling a Peruvian sow who "might be pregnant" for £10....advert placed the beginning of this month.
They just don't get it do they?