Breeding Anti breeding?

[iamsnape]

I agree with @foggycreekcavy , great ideas there! @iamsnape - Your Grandfather seemed a great man who cared very dearly about his dogs.

Thank-you, he really was. When he passed I really wanted to adopt a couple of his greyhounds but it was too difficult for my Mum. Hopefully some day I can adopt an ex-racing greyhound, I know he'd have loved it. There is in fact such a thing as a responsible breeder and I think he was probably the definition, although I am slightly biased with him being my grandad and all lol.

As for somebody saying nobody loves their reptiles - very untrue! I have a friend who has a bearded dragon who he loves very dearly, he lets it in bed with him too, which I find kinda weird but oh well lol

 

[MrWhistles]

On the topic of free animals, I remember when someone was taking all the free dogs/cats from the advertising sites and using them as target practice in the woods.

 

[Rhinos_mom]

Given the vast overpopulation problem in humans, and given that they are the only species that can make a conscious decision not to breed in the face of the overwhelming problems we face and will continue to face while the population continues to rise, I think humans are the first lot that should be considering no longer breeding or at least limiting the breeding we're doing. It's staggering to me that one can have an opinion on overpopulation and breeding and not give some consideration to the problems that exist because of human overpopulation, especially because all the problems with the overpopulation of other species are the fault of humans.

Right?!?! you know what, we as humans always say "oh we cant breed dogs because of the dogs in shelters" "we can't breed guinea pigs because of all of the guinea pigs in shelters" we cant breed cats, horses, donkeys, mice, blah blah

But WHAT is being done about ALL of the homeless CHILDREN. every human wants a baby wants to give birth... what about the kids? the kids in shelters? and you know part of the problem is? adopting in america is SO hard! you have to meet all of these guidelines, i heard of this couple that is not allowed to adopt a child in america because she had cancer when she was a kid, about 9 i think it was. We need a huge wake up call as humans. a huge one.

 

[Rhinos_mom]

Breeding = no no, animals in shelters, adopt.
Over population = You can easily adopt a child/teenager and be able to love and cherish them as if they are your own.

its actually not as easy as you would think over here in america. i don't know how it is in other countries, but there are many guidelines. This is an issue that seriously needs to be fixed. I mean, i'm nervous, in 5 years when I want to adopt are they going to let me? what if I have a health problem? or don't make enough money? We need to make it easier to adopt in order for people to be able to. And as far as adopting a teenager its the same exact problem with adopting older dogs, everyone wants a baby they can teach their values to. the whole idea of "human breeding" needs to be addressed. It's a huge huge problem.

 

[MrWhistles]

Thats sad. Me and hubby were just talking about adopting a child. And as i was googling it i read so many fusterated and sad stories.

 

[Colorado Cavies]

As long as their are animals dying in shelters I am against breeding of any kind, dog, cat, horse, any of it is bad in my option. I think all animals are precious even if they are the strangest mutt on the planet.


An important note about human adoption is that adopting from foster care and adopting an older child is MUCH easier then people who will only accept white healthy infants. As someone who went into foster care at 6 months old (but with a few serious health issues) frankly people like that make me sick. Once I was better the couple taking care of my two older sisters wanted to trade my now adoptive mom for me since I was an infant and they were 2 and 3 years old, maybe 3 and 4 but not old at all. I was lucky to have an amazing case worker who pretty much told them 'hell no' and left me with the woman who would eventually adopt me. there is also an ethical issue with some birth mothers in the US being coerced and even flat out forced to give up their babies to 'white healthy infant' couples to adopt. There have been changes in the system but it still happens.

Once kids hit 7 they are pretty much doomed to foster care until they age out and get dumped on the street at 18 with no where to go and no support. I fully intend to adopt an older child, a sibling group if I can, and I encourage others to consider older children as well. The other part of this is that adopting older children in also much cheaper to encourage those who would normally not consider a child over a year or two old.

Sorry, little off topic but it's a very important issue to me.

 

[doglaurasmudge]

its actually not as easy as you would think over here in america. i don't know how it is in other countries, but there are many guidelines. This is an issue that seriously needs to be fixed. I mean, i'm nervous, in 5 years when I want to adopt are they going to let me? what if I have a health problem? or don't make enough money? We need to make it easier to adopt in order for people to be able to. And as far as adopting a teenager its the same exact problem with adopting older dogs, everyone wants a baby they can teach their values to. the whole idea of "human breeding" needs to be addressed. It's a huge huge problem.

I know it's not easy, it never is, My auntie and Uncle adopted a toddler and it took them almost a year and a half to get her, but they did. I didn't mean to say it's very easy, it's not, it's a long process.

 

[doganddisc]

As long as their are animals dying in shelters I am against breeding of any kind, dog, cat, horse, any of it is bad in my option. I think all animals are precious even if they are the strangest mutt on the planet.

You address two different issues here. Mutts are not worth any less than their purebred counterparts- however, there are several benefits to taking in a purebred dog over a mutt. Consistent breed traits are what keep many dogs in the holes they are in. Imagine if some Shih Tzus acted like Border Collies. Many people cannot handle the amount of energy and intensity of a Border Collie but would still like a calm, quiet lap dog. Selective breeding of purebreds allows for consistent breed traits.

Overpopulation is actually a myth. There are 71 million pet homes in the United States and only 1.5 adoptable dogs (about 2 million adoptable cats) that are regularly euthanized in shelters. The high kill areas have a problem because they are concentrated into one small area with a shelter system that fails to coordinate with rescues and adopters. Trust me on this- after five years of working in rescues, it is the shelters that make you want to pull all of your hair out. Many of the high kill shelters do not use Petfinder.com to list their animals- a lot of the Petfinder accounts that have been created for these shelters are run by volunteers.

I live next to Bloomfield, CT, which is where the Hartford, CT dog pound is located. The pound is rarely full and yet dogs only get seven days to find a home. Why is that? The seven day rule is a state law when there is no reason for it. If the shelter fills up, then and only then should dogs be euthanized. Last in, first out. But the animal control officer in Hartford works very hard and they have had to euthanize an adoptable dog in a few years. But this just goes to show- the good adoption program and hard work of the ACO is what saves the animals.

 

[MrWhistles]

@doganddisc id like to see where you get yout information about pets not being "overpopulted". Just because your dog pound is rarely full doesnt mean there isnt an overwheleming number of pets that need homes.

 

[doganddisc]

@MrWhistles

Pet Underpopulation: The Pet Shortage in the US by Loretta Baughan

Debunking Pet Overpopulation : Nathan J Winograd

The Biggest Animal Welfare Myth in the South « YesBiscuit!

 

[doganddisc]

Oops, double post. I do not deny that animals are dying in shelters and thar is horrible. I run a rescue for performance dogs. I know what is happening in shelters. But breeders are not the reason for thus mess. Irresponsible owners and bad shelter practices are.

 

[madelineelaine]

I think breeders and irresponsible pet owners are to blame.

Not neutering/spaying animals is the first problem.

And breeding them for genes and looks is the second.

 

[PigPandemonium]

doganddisc I did not read those, however I know that is false. With so many breeders, bybs, puppy mills, ect. There are tons of pets being breed and brought into this world each day. If there was a law made that no more breeding of dogs could be done, the overpopulation would slowly go down. It's simple math. If you keep pouring water into a glass it gets fuller, until it's over flowing. Once you cut off the water flow, and the water starts to slowly evaporate, the water level starts to go down. About the "Mixed breed VS Pure breed" I can tell you first hand that just because a dog is a pure bred, doesn't mean it's a cookey cutter example of the breed. I've known many pure bred dogs that don't act how they should, I'm know a border collie that was a lap dog, and you had to convince her to go outside to play fetch. I've known a lot of other dogs like that. So whenever you are getting a dog, you can never be sure of what temperament, ect you are getting, even if you are 100% sure of the breed. That's the same with mutts also, I've got a mutt that is half pug half shih-tzu. However she acts nothing like any of those two breeds. Though she looks like them, she's a border collie at heart. She's always always always on the move, trying to figure things out, getting into trouble if I don't have things for her to do 24/7. She can go on a two hour jog and then when we come back to the car she starts running in circles. She's extremely smart and learns tricks with extreme ease, and knows about 50 or so now, she's also in training to be my service dog. She's also great with dogs, though over the top hyper.

 

[Aleks]

Oops, double post. I do not deny that animals are dying in shelters and thar is horrible. I run a rescue for performance dogs. I know what is happening in shelters. But breeders are not the reason for thus mess. Irresponsible owners and bad shelter practices are.

How, exactly, do you figure that breeders are not part of the problem? They breed more animals. They're adding to the pet population which IS infact overpopulated. They're part of the reason why animals in shelters aren't being adopted. I mean really, think about it.

 

[mamattorney]

In my experience, extremes are rarely a good idea. If starting today, no dog, cat or guinea pig gave birth ever again, then in 20 years, there would be not a single dog, cat or guinea pig walking upon this earth. My grandchildren would never hold a cat; never play catch with a dog. That is not something I would want to have happen. So the question becomes - who decides which dogs, cats or guinea pigs are allowed to give birth? Are only the "accidental" births allowed because somehow they are more innocent and can't be helped? Or should calculated breeding be allowed: breeding which would continue certain traits in an animal? Why is one circumstance more important/justifiable or allowable than the other?

I will tell you that as far as dogs are concerned, my county's shelter hasn't euthanized an adoptable dog in over 4 years and they are making great strides with cats as well. Our dog, which we obtained from a no kill shelter was transported to Illinois from Kentucky; the shelter workers told me that many, many animals are brought in from other states because the shelters here have the room and they know the animals will find homes. However, there are plenty of people who obtain dogs from breeders, too - whether it's for reassurances on health issues, temperment issues, predictable size and weight, I don't know. And I don't particularly care, either. It's a choice; and one that I wouldn't want taken away from me, that's for sure.

 

[doganddisc]

doganddisc I did not read those, however I know that is false.

If you didn't read it, you cannot possibly know it is false. Seriously. Take five minutes and read what is written there. I am NOT denying that there are animals being euthanized in shelters. But the fault does not lie with breeders and those links explain why. The fault is with the irresponsible owners and shelters.

With so many breeders, bybs, puppy mills, ect. There are tons of pets being breed and brought into this world each day. If there was a law made that no more breeding of dogs could be done, the overpopulation would slowly go down.

If no more dogs were bred, there would be no dogs. That is simple math.

If you keep pouring water into a glass it gets fuller, until it's over flowing. Once you cut off the water flow, and the water starts to slowly evaporate, the water level starts to go down.

But this is not how the shelters are working right now. If you pour water into a glass while you're dumping water out at the same time, the glass never overflows. The problem is that the glass isn't being tipped far enough.

About the "Mixed breed VS Pure breed" I can tell you first hand that just because a dog is a pure bred, doesn't mean it's a cookey cutter example of the breed.

I agree, but purebreds share similar predictable traits.

I've known many pure bred dogs that don't act how they should, I'm know a border collie that was a lap dog, and you had to convince her to go outside to play fetch.

My Border Collies are lap dogs

 

[pinky]

When you really think about it, all dogs are descendents of wolves so there really aren't any pure breeds; except for those that have bred and deemed to be "pure." That said, I can understand how certain traits appeal to different people and can be utilized by humans to make their lives easier in some way. I'm still not sold on breeding and the reason is, when you look at service dogs, they aren't a specific breed and are often mixed breeds. They just have the needed characteristics to be able to perform a task. I honestly believe that no matter the tasks, you can find a suitable dog out there that will fill those needs. It just takes work and time to find that dog.....and I don't think you can equate a human with an animal. People can support themselves and are eligible for special services when needed. There is a support system out there. Pets don't have free wills and are totally dependent on humans for their care.

 

[mufasa]

This thread has taken a very interesting turn. I read the links, and while I don't buy the fact that there are enough homes to eliminate euthanasia, I know of the programs where animals are moved to different states with higher adoption rates. I actually met someone from a group that does that last year. They had a transport truck and worked closely with many shelters and saved an amazing amount of animal lives. There's definitely a regional difference, and it's heartbreaking that dogs and cats die in some counties and states when they would find a home if only they could be elsewhere.

I also thought of another thing that's repugnant to me about breeding. Setting aside overpopulation, it sickens me that many breeds cull (i.e. kill) puppies or kittens that don't meet their standards and won't make them money. It proves that animals are just money to some breeders vs. living things with feelings that don't want to die.

 

[MrWhistles]

@dogndisc
the 1st link has outdated information
The 1nd link is outdated as well
The 3rd link.....I honestly LOLed at the 1st reason and stopped there

1. Pet overpopulation is a myth. Do the math. There are enough homes for every shelter pet in this country.

I find this to be a BIG hole. Not everyone can take in pets. Not everyone can afford them, find them useful, likes them, or is not allergic to them. There are so many people that don't have pets for very good reasons. What you brought to the table to defend your "fact" of there is no overpopulation of pets; it doesn't not hold up for me.

The amount of pet mills, BYBs, irresponsible owners, etc etc is in the hundreds, even thousands; those numbers are enough to create alot of homeless pets. Every year hundreds(possibly thousands) of animals get abandoned by their owners. For even the DUMBEST of reasons. People can and will dumb pets. Pets are basically an endless money pit. But there are those who feel that their presence is worth it. Those who don't feel it is worth it will get rid of the pet.

This myth of "there is no overpopulation of pets" is bogus. And I think it was created so that breeders(who have somewhat of a heart) can continue to breed without feeling bad.

 

[pinky]

This thread has taken a very interesting turn. I read the links, and while I don't buy the fact that there are enough homes to eliminate euthanasia, I know of the programs where animals are moved to different states with higher adoption rates. I actually met someone from a group that does that last year. They had a transport truck and worked closely with many shelters and saved an amazing amount of animal lives. There's definitely a regional difference, and it's heartbreaking that dogs and cats die in some counties and states when they would find a home if only they could be elsewhere.

I also thought of another thing that's repugnant to me about breeding. Setting aside overpopulation, it sickens me that many breeds cull (i.e. kill) puppies or kittens that don't meet their standards and won't make them money. It proves that animals are just money to some breeders vs. living things with feelings that don't want to die.

I have a lot of friends who are rescuers. It's basically a full time endeavor for them. As good as these transports often are, there are awful situations that occur. It takes a lot of planning and checking references to make sure these transports work. It's a great way to save animals but it requires a lot of manpower and dedication from those who do it. I've heard of situations where animals were left in cars overnight and died and also those arranging transports being deceived by those giving up animals to transport. Sometimes people try and unload terminally ill animals so they don't have to deal with it. The transports are great things but not the solution to help all the homeless animals.