Breeding Anti breeding?

[Agrimony]

Just throwing this on as an interesting topic for discussion, but thought this was the best place as it could be a heated topic.

Part of this topic came to mind as I was reading a few recent threads with iffy breeding situations, and part came while recently hearing about the thanksgiving day dog show. Now I recognize the passion most here have against guinea pig breeding. However, the phrase "there are so many unwanted _____ in this world how could anyone justify creating more?" can be applied to a multitude of species; dogs, horses, and even humans.

So just wondering where people stood on the issues surrounding other species? Can any thing else be justified, and if so what are your arguments?

I came to this site as someone who personally wanted a rescued pet, but was completely neutral on the topic of breeding. I was not necessarily for it but I wasn't at all against it either. You all have made me think a lot about that in the form of guinea pig breeding but now I'm curious to hear opinions about other species.

 

[MommyOfMany]

I feel that breeding is completely wrong in common animals like dogs, cats, and guinea pigs which have entire shelters dedicated to them. Animals that are "wild" but kept as pets like tarantulas and snakes shouldn't be kept as pets anyway, they belong in nature. The only justifiable situation I can think of is a breed-and-release scenario where you have a breeding program for endangered animals, tigers and the like in which you breed them and release their offspring to repopulate.

 

[2198lindsey]

One of my favorite people in the world breeds rottweilers, as well as rescues them/fosters them. Breeding in guinea pigs, I agree is totally unacceptable because there will always be stores that will most likely never stop selling them and always be homeless pigs.
All of my dogs are rescues. BUT, with rescues, sometimes comes issues that some people cannot handle. I understand this is not always the case. But Leslie (the woman I mentioned earlier) currently has a foster dog that came from a shelter that literally may never be adoptable because of the mental issues she has due to being raised incorrectly, bred incorrectly, and some genetic problems. Some people who cannot handle a dog like mine, who has food aggression, or dog agression or something similar, but would still love a dog, have two options. Gamble with a rescue or get from a RESPONSIBLE breeder like Leslie, who does genetic checking, health checking and makes sure no dog leaves her without completely being adoptable (I'd hate to use the word buyable). Personally, I would much rather get a shelter dog and work through the issues. Some people just can't and to keep the purity of some of the great breeds that have developed I believe RESPONSIBLE breeding is nessecary. (excuse any mis-spellings, I appoligize!)

 

[MrWhistles]

I feel that dogs shouldn't be bred unless the result of the breeding is the IMPROVE the breed as a whole. THAT is a reputable breeder to me. One who has spent countless hours doing research on his or her dogs, finding the best matches, finding what traits to improve or what health issues to attempt to eliminate or lessen, etc etc.

I don't care if the pups are perfectly healthy, don't care if all your "customers" have been happy, don't care if you only breed each mother once her whole entire lifetime, don't care what you say about your "reputable breeding".(not directed toward anyone in particular) A dog's purpose shouldn't just be running around a show ring. A dog's purpose is to have a "job" to put forth his or her effort into it's breed. If it's a working dog, then it should do what it was originally bred for.

If I am going to put forth more than $300 for a dog then my dog better be an AWESOME dog. My doberman was that result. He is the key to improve 1 trait in his breed. He has also contributed to 4 litters so far and all are going on a great track to improve the breed. My type of dog is a working dog, but being an animal lover, I can't stand to turn down any dog(for animal for that matter) that needs help.

 

[2198lindsey]

[MENTION=22188]MrWhistles[/MENTION] 100% agree with you.

 

[nibbler100]

when it comes to horses im still iffy on the breeding, like race horses for example.. of course there are the lucky few who people consider amazing animals. But the reality of horses racing is grim for the horse.. most offten a horse doesn't do good.. so they toss them off to the sharks... a lot of them end up in slaughter houses.. its a sad sport.. i used to work at a barn strictly dedicated to buying retired race horses and retraining them for another purpose. Some of that i saw there was really sad, i had seen horse come in so terifid of people from being beat so bad theyed have panic attack when people even walked buy there stalls.. or horse came in so skinny we couldn't work with them for mouths until they got some meat on there bones. the sadist part is that there was always a endless supply of them.. and we couldn't take in every one.. its a sad and sadistic sport.

When it comes to dog breeding I feel the same way as whiskers. and as far as cats go.. they just need to stop breeding period.. there are too meany stupid people out there who just let there animals breed non stop.. there is always a dog/cat/horse ECT.. that you can find in a shelter and adopt.

 

[2198lindsey]

Not every race horse is mis treated although I agree. I've worked with a couple of retired ones and they can be so spooky you wonder what the heck they went through!

when it comes to horses im still iffy on the breeding, like race horses for example.. of course there are the lucky few who people consider amazing animals. But the reality of horses racing is grim for the horse.. most offten a horse doesn't do good.. so they toss them off to the sharks... a lot of them end up in slaughter houses.. its a sad sport.. i used to work at a barn strictly dedicated to buying retired race horses and retraining them for another purpose. Some of that i saw there was really sad, i had seen horse come in so terifid of people from being beat so bad theyed have panic attack when people even walked buy there stalls.. or horse came in so skinny we couldn't work with them for mouths until they got some meat on there bones. the sadist part is that there was always a endless supply of them.. and we couldn't take in every one.. its a sad and sadistic sport.

When it comes to dog breeding I feel the same way as whiskers. and as far as cats go.. they just need to stop breeding period.. there are too meany stupid people out there who just let there animals breed non stop.. there is always a dog/cat/horse ECT.. that you can find in a shelter and adopt.

 

[madelineelaine]

Intresting that you included humans in that, we do have an over population

I think breeding small animals is irresponsible no matter how you put it. There will always be a surplus of small animals in this world.

If the species is endangered, then breeding and releasing is okay by my standards. It's needed. It's important.

But breeding for the heck of it and killing animals because you got bored? If looks could kill ...

Something else that irritates me is people who think nothing of letting two unaltered opposite sexed animals play together.

My best friends neighbour lets her female guinea pig and her cousins male guinea pig have 'play dates' she also keeps her in a small cage and feeds awful food. It makes me really really sad. It's stressful and no matter how many times I've poitned these things out, she brushes it off. I think I'm going to make her a cuddle cup of something, so her poor pig is at least a bit cozier.

 

[mufasa]

I exclude humans from my decision because we can speak and assert our opinions on whether or not we wish to breed, and we can choose whether or not we want to take overall human overpopulation into consideration.

For animals, I am against breeding any kind of animal that has others of the same species dying in shelters for lack of homes. Cats, dogs, guinea pigs, horses, whatever...I feel the same about all of them. I've owned horses for more than 30 years, and the overpopulation is just as bad as cats, dogs, piggies, etc. Purebred animals are being killed in shelters or starved by people who can't afford them or having other horrible fates because of the lack of homes. I can't justify breeding until that situation is resolved.

 

[Paula]

Given the vast overpopulation problem in humans, and given that they are the only species that can make a conscious decision not to breed in the face of the overwhelming problems we face and will continue to face while the population continues to rise, I think humans are the first lot that should be considering no longer breeding or at least limiting the breeding we're doing. It's staggering to me that one can have an opinion on overpopulation and breeding and not give some consideration to the problems that exist because of human overpopulation, especially because all the problems with the overpopulation of other species are the fault of humans.

 

[madelineelaine]

Humans are just a bad species in my opinion We're too smart for our own good sometimes.

I agree though, paula, we do have the decision to breed and I have to wonder if it is at our faults. I mean some coutries are way over populated, where as canada isn't.

 

[PipSqueek]

I'm okay with breeding if it's done for a genuinely good reason, and to say that breeding directly kills animals in shelters is false and pure silly.

Animals that are "wild" but kept as pets like tarantulas and snakes shouldn't be kept as pets anyway, they belong in nature.

Where's the limit? When does it become acceptable? Is it unacceptable to keep an exotic (reptiles kept in captivity are most often captive bred, not wild) in captivity for the sake of research to further help the species in the wild? And why is that more acceptable than a knowledgeable owner keeping them, one who tends to all of their needs and keeps their environment healthy and free from stresses?

The only justifiable situation I can think of is a breed-and-release scenario where you have a breeding program for endangered animals, tigers and the like in which you breed them and release their offspring to repopulate.

Conservation programmes are rarely a simple matter of 'breed-and-release'. We (I say 'we' as I am lucky enough to be part of many conservation programmes) can't just breed an animal then turf it out into the wild. Some of the animals we breed are not suitable for release, but their offspring may well be. Again, why is it acceptable for us to keep them back but unacceptable for a private keeper to own them, keeping them in the exact same conditions (which is often the case) that we do?

Breeding has a time and a purpose.

 

[doglaurasmudge]

Breeding = no no, animals in shelters, adopt.
Over population = You can easily adopt a child/teenager and be able to love and cherish them as if they are your own.

 

[MommyOfMany]

I'm okay with breeding if it's done for a genuinely good reason, and to say that breeding directly kills animals in shelters is false and pure silly.



Where's the limit? When does it become acceptable? Is it unacceptable to keep an exotic (reptiles kept in captivity are most often captive bred, not wild) in captivity for the sake of research to further help the species in the wild? And why is that more acceptable than a knowledgeable owner keeping them, one who tends to all of their needs and keeps their environment healthy and free from stresses?



Conservation programmes are rarely a simple matter of 'breed-and-release'. We (I say 'we' as I am lucky enough to be part of many conservation programmes) can't just breed an animal then turf it out into the wild. Some of the animals we breed are not suitable for release, but their offspring may well be. Again, why is it acceptable for us to keep them back but unacceptable for a private keeper to own them, keeping them in the exact same conditions (which is often the case) that we do?

Breeding has a time and a purpose.

I'm talking about "exotic" pet stores and animal expos, where people can buy tarantulas and the like that are descendants of wild-caught animals. They only want them to have for their collection and to sell their offspring. Can you tell me whether a snake would be happier in a small, pine-filled tub for the rest of its life where it can't even uncurl, only to be taken out maybe once a week? I have seen countless YouTube videos of people showing off their reptile collections, and their habitats are hardly what I'd call appropriate. It is different, animals in the wild have miles and miles to roam, the whole world to choose from. Knowledgeable owners are few and very, very far in between.
I count animals that shouldn't be kept as pets as, obviously, big cats, wolves, and pretty much anything that tries to kill you when you go near it and hasn't already been domesticated. I feel animals that fall into these categories should be kept only in captivity by trained professionals if they are permanently injured with something that would not allow them to live a normal life in the wild or rescued-private animal hoarder, zoos, etc. They should only be bred for the good of the species, again only if the species is in danger. Animals will never be as happy in captivity as they are in the wild.

 

[foggycreekcavy]

I agree that wild animals, reptiles, amphibians, and insects should not be kept as pets. They don't have the capacity to bond with humans--there's no reciprocal relationship involved. We kept a tarantula for several years (my son brought her home). Whereas our 10 gallon tank was bigger than many people's spider cages, how did it compare to living in the wild, in the desert? I grew quite fond of her, but she was always just afraid of us.

As for breeding animals like cats, dogs, and horses, I believe that people should have to get a special license, submit to yearly inspections, and pay a yearly fee.

 

[iamsnape]

I personally am slightly neutral on the issue of breeding, but I do have some views on it.

I have friends that breed animals for the sake of it, without doing any research, etc. For example, I know somebody that's just got a sow to put with her male. She has no clue of how quickly she will get pregnant, about back breeding, annd plans to keep them together and it go swimmingly. I tried to explain what would happen and I received abuse from her friends in response. So as much as it hurts, the only way to let this person understand is to let her make her mistakes and suffer the consequences.
I also have friends that breed animals for the sake of it and give the babies away free. A friend recently did it with his kittens, and he did not do homechecks on the owners. This I whole heartedly disagree with. A pet should NEVER under ANY circumstances be advertised as 'free'. You will always get either somebody that wants it as pet food, somebody that takes in EVERYTHING until the novelty wears off, an animal abuser, etc, responding. Either do a homecheck and ask a lot of questions, or advertise with a fee, and drop it when you know it's going to a good home.

Now, when it comes to other animals, I think it can depend on why you're breeding them. Before I explain, I would appreciate I didn't get a lot of hateful comments regarding what I am about to say as it involves my Grandfather who passed away nearly 3 years ago and I'm still very touchy on the subject.
He used to breed greyhounds for racing. He would not sell them, or give them away, but keep them. He actually bred animals of such fantastic standard in both health and physique that the parental dogs ended up banned from the race track because no other dog could beat them. He loved his dogs dearly, like no other. They had a huge huge kennel down the bottom of the garden, and he only ever bred a litter when his other dogs were coming close to retirement. And when they did retire, he kept them to the end of their life and loved them very much. They also got treated ridiculously well - they ate better than him and got full roast dinners on sundays, etc. Some days he would go and sleep in the kennels with them too, bless him.
He did this all his life until the day he died, I don't think anyone could ever love greyhounds like he did. I see this as perfectly fine. He kept the litters, he loved them, and they were always treated fantastically. The ones he bred had very very little health problems and had great lives.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with this. I have also been shown by him, as I grew up, how important it was to love the animals you keep and rear. He was the most responsible animal owner I've never known, probably ever will know, and I wish other people could take a leaf out of his book.

When it comes to breeding small animals - people learn their lessons. If they don't listen to the people that say don't do it, they feel the pain when it goes wrong, and then hopefully that will make them stop. Unfortunately the world is full of ignorant people and I don't think it's possible to convince people that breeding small animals won't always go well.

 

[PipSqueek]

I'm talking about "exotic" pet stores and animal expos, where people can buy tarantulas and the like that are descendants of wild-caught animals. They only want them to have for their collection and to sell their offspring.

False. Plenty of people love their reptiles the same as you love your guinea pigs.

Can you tell me whether a snake would be happier in a small, pine-filled tub for the rest of its life where it can't even uncurl, only to be taken out maybe once a week? I have seen countless YouTube videos of people showing off their reptile collections, and their habitats are hardly what I'd call appropriate. It is different, animals in the wild have miles and miles to roam, the whole world to choose from. Knowledgeable owners are few and very, very far in between.

Snakes, in fact, generally dislike large, roomy areas. "In the wild", the only time they will leave the safety of their burrow, hive or other space of rest (in some species that can be in a fallen tree, under sheets, etc) is when they need food or occasionally when they're in close proximity of a predator, due to environmental changes such as flooding, temperature fluctuation, etc, or if they're looking to mate. Generally (with the exception of hatchlings) feeding will be every 3 weeks to 6 months, often longer. In fact, snakes in captivity often become visibly stressed in environments where they live in large tanks with masses of room to roam, which is why keepers give them adequate but not massive housing, as well as plenty of opportunity to curl up and hide. Snakes prefer to be in spaces where they can feel all of the 'walls' (be that a hide wall or otherwise) around them. We have seen this ourselves in our conservation programmes, and we have changed our housing accordingly. The housing we use isn't much different to that commonly used by private keepers.

Animals will never be as happy in captivity as they are in the wild.

This is a debate of its own, and certainly not fact.

As for breeding animals like cats, dogs, and horses, I believe that people should have to get a special license, submit to yearly inspections, and pay a yearly fee.

This. Certainly wouldn't solve the problem, but it'd go some way to helping it.

 

[doglaurasmudge]

I agree with [MENTION=13918]foggycreekcavy[/MENTION], great ideas there! [MENTION=24292]iamsnape[/MENTION] - Your Grandfather seemed a great man who cared very dearly about his dogs.

 

[T.HayLover]

Very interesting debate. I can't say exactly how I feel in regards to everything, but even with special licenses and yearly inspections, people always get around it. That's what I'm concerned with. They need to enforce these things better. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, because it's great. It's just that enforcement is the main problem.

 

[Inle_Rabbit]

I disagree on the issue of anthropoids. No they don't have feelings like a mammal but how is keeping a beetle and different than keeping a fish? I haven't seen anyone disagree with fish ownership because they don't bond.

I currently have over a dozen species of native desert tenebs (darkling beetles) they are awesome little animals. They are fun to watch, they have a fascinating life cycle and they love, love a eat. They are easier than caring for fish and honestly on the same level.