Veg*n Feeling a bit guilty...

I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking here or what kind of encouragement/help you need. You say:

I mean, my parents won't let me become a complete vegan even if I wanted to,

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which tells me, quite plainly, that you don't want to be a vegan, and you say:

I mean, If I get served a steak, I have to eat it. But If I have a choice, I don't want to eat too much of it

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which tells me you don't really want to totally quit eating meat; you just don't want to eat quite so much of it.

If you want to eat less meat, who's to stop you? You say your parents won't let you be a vegan (not that you seem to want to anyways) but do they control the portions that must go into your system? This steak that you *must* eat - do they put a gun to your head until you eat the whole thing? Why can you not eat only as much as you want to?

If you're looking to be a vegetarian who eats meat, just not too much, I don't think you're going to find much acceptance or approval here. But perhaps I am misunderstanding your problem - perhaps you could clarify it.

Okay, sorry for being unclear. I want to be vegan, sort of. What I meant be 'even if I wanted to' was that I'm not sure. I don't really know what's all involved. I guess you're right. Just one mouthfull of steak and a mound of potatoes and beans wouldn't hurt, would it? Instead of a whole steak and a little scoop of potatoes and beans. I'm not going to get away with not eating any meat at all, but if I can just peel away a ton of the 'unneccisary meat' (Burgers when we go to a fast food place, why not get salad? Taking meatballs at a potluck, just take the noodles, for goodness sake!) and eat a lot of fruits and veggies (which I enjoy more in alot of cases anyway) I mean, we went to a potluck this afternoon, and I did take a meatball, but I felt kind of guilty eating it, and to be honest, I enjoyed the fresh raw bell peppers and peas and celery better!!! Sorry again for the 'fuzziness'. Thanks for the quick response.
Sheila

Okay, I've just talked with my parents. First off, they said that "you are NOT going to go vegan!!!!!!" So I talked with them a bit, and we discussed it, and discussed what Christianity (my religion) says about it, and we agreed that meat is fine, but we as a family are going to stay FAR FAR away from Burger meat (the gross kind) and meat where the animal is actually in pain. I don't eat seafood anyway, so the fishing (hook in mouth thing) isn't a problem. But with a roast from the grocery store, the cow never even feels the slit. God provided this food for us, and I'm going to enjoy it. So, ya. Decision made, choice decided. I shall leave it. Thanks guys for just having a place where I can rant.

Christsgirl said:

So I talked with them a bit, and we discussed it, and discussed what Christianity (my religion) says about it, and we agreed that meat is fine,

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You are aware of the belief that Jesus was a Vegetarian right? If not here is some info https://www.jesusveg.com/index2.html and https://www.jesusveg.com/5.html
It's a case of WWJD right? I doubt Jesus would approve of the cruel slaughter of animals.

Christsgirl said:

we as a family are going to stay FAR FAR away from Burger meat (the gross kind) and meat where the animal is actually in pain. I don't eat seafood anyway, so the fishing (hook in mouth thing) isn't a problem. But with a roast from the grocery store, the cow never even feels the slit.

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WHAT!?!? They do not slaughter a cow differently to get a roast or a steak or ground beef. The cow or pig or chicken is killed in an inhumane manner, carved up and placed on those lovely styrofoam platters to slowly rot until you buy it.

Whoever told you that a roast is less cruel then ground meat straight up lied to you. I hope that wasn't your parents that told you that.

Christsgirl said:

God provided this food for us, and I'm going to enjoy it. So, ya. Decision made, choice decided. I shall leave it. Thanks guys for just having a place where I can rant.

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First of all you do not get to gloat (or rant) on this forum about eating meat. You are going to "enjoy" eating an animal that suffered horribly it's entire life and whose last moments on this earth were ones of terror and pain? Hope you can swallow the guilt of that as well as that juicy piece of flesh.

Please provide me a bible verse where God specifically says "eat these animals". I've read the bible and the closest I can remember is we were given "dominion" over the animals. That is different then eating them. I have dominion over my children but I don't eat them.

Lastly, Keep religion off this forum. We do not allow religion to enter into play in discussions. You will have to find a better, more logical, reason to defend your meat eating habits here in the VEGETARIAN forum then what your religion tells you.

Im a christian and im vegetarian but does that mean im going against my religion? No. Im not going to support murder. The inhumane murder of an animal. Why would you?

Today, our society encourages meat-eating and factory farming, but at one time, society also encouraged slavery, child labor, and many other practices that are now universally recognized as wrong. Are you going to support the cruel murder of animals?

You may not have killed the animal yourself, but you hired the killer. Whenever you purchase meat, the killing was done for you, and you paid for it. By eating the meat that your parents paid for, you are saying ''its alright to eat meat, its alright for an animal to be inhumanely slaughtered and killed''

Did you know that the beef your eating has been pumped full of hormones. That cow was hit in the head with a bolt gun before being skinned, some still conscious. Are you going to support an industry that treats animals this way? That cow was alive while being skinned, it spent its life in a small cage being tortured. Chickens are fed so many hormones they become deformed, their necks break and they become hugely overgorwn. Why support something like that?

Why? Because your parents told you too? My parents said no too but I refused. I stood up for what I believed in and im glad I did. I save 90 animals per year by not eating meat. How many do you save??

But with a roast from the grocery store, the cow never even feels the slit.

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It's very clear that you don't know much about this subject, otherwise you would not have made such a tacky statement. You really ought to do some research on the subject before you come gloating about it on a vegetarian forum.

I can tell you from experience that isn't true about ground meat. The same meat that goes into a chicken breast cutlet goes into ground chicken. The only difference is what the customer wants, not which chicken was killed.

Also the industry is changing the way it kills cows. The slit was coinsidered inhumane. It takes a while for a large animal to die like that. You do realize just how much blood is in a cow, right? They shoot them in the head now, then slit the throat. So they can still drain all the blood but the cow isn't feeling it.

It amazes me how little people know about thier food. But then again my husband works in a meat processing plant (beef no less) and I am an ex meat processing QA. I spend a lot of small talk teaching people to debunk the myths about how food gets to your plate.

You are joking right? The fact is that your eating an animal that once lived and breathed just like us. Also, get your terms right! I think you're referring to a vegetarian but you keep on writing vegan, there's a difference.

Who told you that they don't feel pain for the grocery? Sometimes if you feel strongly about a subject you have to stand up to your parents. My parents said that I had to eat fish, well that's not the case anymore. I felt strongly about my decision to be a total vegetarian but it doesn't seem like you do fully.

I do think it's good that you are cutting down on meat though.

Sabriel said:

It amazes me how little people know about thier food. But then again my husband works in a meat processing plant (beef no less) and I am an ex meat processing QA. I spend a lot of small talk teaching people to debunk the myths about how food gets to your plate.

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Things must be different in Canada. I've been to slaughter houses here in the U.S. I can guarentee you that the bolt gun is only effective part of the time. A lot of the animals I witnessed killed were only incapacitated but still in obvious terror and probably pain.

The forman I had talked to said it was effecitve when he visited. He had to occasioanlly go to the slaughterhouses we bought from. Standards differ *a lot* between the US and Canada. We also most likley use a different company to buy them from. Very little equiptment is imported. It's difficult to get spare parts thay way. I know they have problems when the American/German injectors and tumblers need parts

I think over here the vet/inspector has to be closer to the slaughter area then in the US. Where my husband used to work the inspector has a special room with a 2 way mirror looking out onto the floor from the second floor. The vet inspects poultry right after it's been plucked.

Also, do they use a machine to kill them in the US, or is it done by hand. the plant my husband worked at did it by hand. Much more accuracy and you can see if the chicken is awake or not. It is the only job they did not rotate. I think that was due to special training.

My husband has watched Meet your Meat. He says though that might be true for the US, some of it is not true for Canada. Most of it is, but not all of it.

VoodooJoint said:

Please provide me a bible verse where God specifically says "eat these animals".

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Romans 14:6 "He who eats meat, eats to the Lord."

VoodooJoint said:

Lastly, Keep religion off this forum. We do not allow religion to enter into play in discussions. You will have to find a better, more logical, reason to defend your meat eating habits here in the VEGETARIAN forum then what your religion tells you.

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I know, I'm a Mod on Hamsterific.com, we have the same rule, I was just trying to explain my reason. Sorry.

Wow, I'll really have to look into this. I think God designed meat for us to eat, but did he say that we can kill them inhumanely? No. I don't think so. Could you give me a few links to some sites that explain how they are killed etc.? Although, I would like a couple links to some stuff about Canadian meat too, because I know that at least the milk is done differently in Canada. My Dad talked to a man who has a milk farm, and he basically represents all Dairy farms in Canada. The calf gets all the milk it needs, they don't keep them in teeny weeny containers, they don't inject the hormones, etc. In fact, the cows have been found to actually produce more when the are treated in a humane way. But anyway, I'm still curious. And once again, sorry for the rash tacky statements I made. As was said, I haven't properly studied this.
Sheila

Even though we may have marginally better standards up here, we still buy some products from the US. There is no way to know the orgin on the meat you are buying. You would have to buy directly from a meat processing plant you trust to know that.

Some good links are:

www.peta.com
https://www.peta.com/about/faq-veg.asp
https://www.goveg.com/

Christsgirl said:

Romans 14:6 "He who eats meat, eats to the Lord."

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You didn't complete the passage. The whole passage reads:

"He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."

If you go down to Romans 14:14

"As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died."

Now then the meaning of "Meat" may not mean animal flesh in the Bible

Genesis 1:29 - And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 40:17 - And in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bakemeats for Pharaoh; and the birds did eat them out of the basket upon my head.

Leviticus 2:1 - And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:

Numbers 7:19 - He offered for his offering one silver charger, the weight whereof was an hundred and thirty shekels, one silver bowl of seventy shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary; both of them full of fine flour mingled with oil for a meat offering

Deuteronomy 20:20 - Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued

Job 30:4 - Who cut up mallows by the bushes, and juniper roots for their meat.

It goes on and on along those lines. It seems that the word "meat" refers more to food in general, or the act of eating, in the bible. Both of those meanings are described in the dictionary as definitions of the work meat.

Yes, thats true Voodoo Joint, as far as I am aware, "meat" used to mean "food" centuries ago and was then later applied to edible parts of mammals. Seeing that the bible is _quite_ an old book, it makes sense that it was probably translated at a time when the word "meat" was still employed in that way, although I havent any sources available to proof that.