Stones Mini's medical thread - recurring stones

[miniver]

https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/threads/110413-Baytril-probiotic-critical-care-questions

The original thread is too old but here is the link. She last had a stone issue about six months ago.

Mini is having bladder issues again. She stoppedeating and just sat in the corner so I took her to the vet clinicyesterday. They kept her over night to force feed her, checked herhydration (mostly okay) and did blood work and an x-ray. The blood workwon't be back until Monday. The x-ray showed a white mass, possibly astone. She also has some gas and bloat. The vet is calling mein a few hours with and update but already she's suggested doing anultrasound tomorrow.

This is deja-vu. Mini just went through this six months ago. Ichanged her diet, pellets and water and she still has sludge issues. Irealize there are many guinea pig owners with this issue but it's hard watchher go though it again. It's also very hard to know what to do when Ithink this will keep happening over and over.

I'll wait for all the results before I make a decision but meanwhile I'mpreparing for everything - surgery, treat the bloat, orpossibly letting her go. I'm reading everything I can find but I havesome general experience questions, if anyone would care to share their adviceand experience.

1. Post-op cage arrangements - do I separate her from her cage mate forpost-op? Smaller separate cage, divide the current cage? What's worked for you.

2. Her cage mate seems lonely, even after one night. Is thereanything I can do to help her? How long can they be apart before I shouldconsider reintroductions?

3. Any tips for round-the-clock post-op care while holding down ajob? I'm thinking of working mornings and taking the afternoon off for acouple days. There is a limit to employer's understanding and I don'tthink that's unreasonable. They were great the first time around.

That's it for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions once I knowmore.

 

[bpatters]

I'm sorry she's having problems again. And it's terrible to have to decide whether to operate or euthanize. Here's what I know about it.

Many vets don't like doing repeat stone removal. The very fact of opening the bladder and the resulting scar tissue increases the chances of repeat stones to some degree. And if a pig has had a second episode of stones in spite of a low calcium diet, the likelihood of a third recurrence (and even more problems with surgery) is great.

But, some pigs do okay for a while after a second surgery. So it's hard to say that it won't work, and harder still to give up on a pig that may have a chance at more good months or years.

If you do decide on surgery, I'd confine her in one end of the bigger cage, and put the hay piles on either side of the divider grid so the pigs will be next to each other when they're eating hay. You'll have to leave them separated for a week, and that will require reintroductions. In the case of my Ruffles and Flourish, the squabbling was pretty continuous for a couple of days, but not very severe. But I didn't do reintroductions. I thought they'd be okay since they were in the same big cage, but I was wrong.

She should be fine at home while you're at work. Maybe you could have someone check in on her the first day.

 

[sallyvh]

So sorry that you are dealing with bladder issues again. Bpatters has given you the best info available.

I personally have a stone pig who has had issues on and off for 2 years. She had her first very large stone in October of 2014, I booked her for surgery but she passed the stone the night before. After her initial incident she was fine for over a year until November of 2015. She started squeaking when peeing so I took her for X-rays, there were no visible stones but sludge was present so we treated with antibiotics, metacam and fluid therapy. Her last incident was February 2016, she started squeaking when peeing again so we went back to the vet. She had 3 little stones in her bladder this time as well as a UTI. We decided to not do surgery and try fluid therapy on her since the stones were small and she was able to pass a large one before. I gave her 30mls of subQ fluids twice a week at home for 3 weeks and she was on 45 days of sulfatrim and metacam. She was able to pass the stones and she has been fine since February (knock on wood).

I've made the decision if she gets any further stones I won't be doing surgery. This is obviously a reoccurring issue with her despite being on the lowest calcium diet possible. She's also getting older and nearing 6 years old. Surgery is well over $1000 dollars here (my clinic is in Guelph) and I don't feel it would be fair to put her through all that at her age for the issue just to return a couple months later. I'll definitely get her X-rays, medication and fluid if it's passable but I won't be doing any invasive procedures on her.

Sending wishes your way!

 

[miniver]

Thanks, both of you. It's good information to have. I didn't know how guinea pigs would handle repeat surgeries but I've read how common it seems to be that new stones develop so soon after the first surgery.

Mini is at the U of Guelph clinic. The vet called and said she has perked up a bit today but is still on pain meds and forced feeding. She is urinating but is not having bowel movements. They are keeping her over night again. Hopefully they can get her on the schedule for an ultrasound tomorrow and take a urine sample directly from the bladder while she is under. The more information I have the better I'll feel about any decision I make.

It would be hard to let her go; she's only two years old, but I think I've already decided that if it's stones and surgery is the only option I won't try to save her. As hard as it will be on me I don't think I can put her through this every six months. I'm still hoping for the best. She's got too much attitude not to make a fight of it!

 

[miniver]

Mini had an ultrasound yesterday and there were no stones that they could see. I'm beyond relieved but she's very sick and I'm still very worried. Preliminary blood work and urinalysis arepointing to a very nasty infection either in the gut or bladder. I’ll know more when the pathologist reviews the blood work later today. The results from the urinalysis won’t be in until next week. They were able to take a urine sample directly from the bladder during the ultrasound.

She’s pooping enough that they let me take her home last night. She’s on Meloxicam (Metacam) for 7 days and antibiotics for 14 days. My sleep deprived brain can’t remember the name of the antibiotic right now. I’m still feeding her critical care – 1 partin her mouth, 1 part on my shirt. She has enough energy to fight the dreaded piggy-burito. I don’t plan on adding probiotics just yet but I have them on hand and may add them in a day or two. I’ll definitely add some vitamin C once I stop the critical care. Mini has no interest in green peppers right now.

She wasn’t eating on her own at the vet’s but devoured all the veggies I gave her as soonas we got home last night. She ate a few pellets, drank some water and isspending most of her time face first in the hay bin. She’s not eating enough hay yet and but this ismajor progress.

For anyone in Canada wondering what your emergency vet fund should be, I just spent $1,100 over two days. I spent $1,200 six months ago on stones. I don’t mean to scare you but be prepared. Try not to add the stress of paying the vet bills to the stress of making the best decisions for a sick pet.

I’ll postan update and the test results when I have them. I read a lot of older posts over the last few days looking for information. The outcomes,good or bad, were a good resource.

 

[bpatters]

I'm sorry she's so sick.

But I wouldn't wait to add the probiotics. The fewer functioning bacteria there are in the gut, the greater the chances of stasis and bloat. There's no upside to waiting, and considerable downside for doing so.

 

[miniver]

I think you're right. I think I'll add the probiotics starting tonight. I'm also going to try red peppers instead of the green I usually give them. Red peppers give her cage mate soft poops but I'm feeding them separately at the moment so that's not an issue right now. I'd like to give her a little more vit. c.

 

[sallyvh]

I like having around $2000 put away for the pigs. Vet care in our area is ridiculously expensive. It's easy to spend at least $1000 on just diagnostics.

It does sound like she's improving, hopefully a round of antibiotics will be all it needs to solve whatever is wrong.

 

[miniver]

All the tests came back negative. The only thing of note was on the urinalysis, which was taken by needle directly from the bladder while she was put under for the ultrasound.

"Mini's urinalysis yielded occasional bacteria, which were likely due to contamination of the sample as the bacterial culture showed no bacterial growth".

She got her last dose of Meloxicam (anti-inflammatory, pain med) on Sunday and she's on Metronidazole (antibiotic) for a few more days. She's eating and pooping but I notice she is squeaking a little when she pees. I think she has an on-going irritation from sludge. Despite the low calcium diet, she still has very white urine stains in the cage. I'm going to leave her on the antibiotic until next Wednesday just to be sure. I have an appointment then with my regular vet for a check-up. I need to work with the vet to deal with this. I need a plan in place for the next time so I'm not at the emergency clinic paying for tests she doesn't need.

My co-workers have been very understanding about the time I've taken off to care for her. They all cheered when I said she was finally pooping again!

 

[lisa325]

Poor Mini and poor you, It must be gut wrenching to have this keep recurring. I hope she gets through this. My very best wishes to you both.