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Breeding Convincing against buying from a breeder

CavyMama

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Are you certain the growl is an aggressive growl? Dachshunds are excessively vocal. He may actually just be playing with your nephew. Perhaps he thinks of your nephew as the other "puppy" in the family?

It's difficult to tell because nephew always pulls hand away before the growl can advance to anything else. It's a soft low growl and he always stares at nephew's hand when it happens while keeping his mouth on the toy/rawhide, etc but sounds a little different than the playing growl we hear when the dog plays tug with a toy.

I would hazard a guess that the dog is more understanding of the tone of "No!" than the actual word. When you or anyone else takes something from him though, you should do it as a trade. Take the toy, but give him a piece of hot dog.

I agree. Tone is much more important than the word itself. I usually do trade him the toy for a tasty morsel and most of the time, he is more than willing to give it up for a yummy treat! :)

You aren't rewarding him for picking up the toy- he did that minutes ago and won't make that connection. You are rewarding him for giving you the item he has in his mouth, and he will learn that even if you are going to take something from him, it will be well worth his while.

Oh, I know :) I always do the instant trade. I never praise or discipline the dog for something he did longer than 30 seconds earlier. Anything else would be confusing to him. He won't connect the reward/discipline to what he did and is pointless.

Knowing this makes me a bit more certain that it's a play growl and not a resource guarding growl, but the only way to know the difference is to read the body language of the dog. Is he tense or does his whole body seem loose? Does he wag his tail when he growls? (If he does, is the wag frantic or slow?).

When he does that with nephew, he started watching my nephew's hand, tail wagging slows, body tenses. Most of the time, he had been intently concentrating on the toy or rawhide like it was the only thing in the world. As I said, not the best timing for nephew and his common sense is sorely lacking sometimes.

The reason I said resource guarding is because that kind of growl only happens when nephew starts to take something away. The playing/tugging growl is a set of short varying growls (Grrr grr grrrrrr grr). The taking away growl is one long low monotone growl.

My dogs are fantastic for warding off strangers! They bark like maniacs when the doorbell rings. I'm not sure they would actually do anything if somebody were to break and enter but they sure sound like they would! I've done nothing to discourage this :) I do know that if somebody were to try to hurt me, one of my dogs would not be so friendly.

Yeah, this dog barks like crazy when the doorbell rings or when he sees people he doesn't know outside (mailman, UPS, painters, etc). He is the epitome of all bark and no bite in those cases though because when I bring him out to meet the people, he is all tail wagging and hand licking. The kind of tail wagging that wags his whole body. He's a very friendly dog.
 

sassyfirechick

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A few bits of info to fill in the gaps: The puppy is 8 months old and is a mini dachshund. Nephew is 11 and it's not food he is taking, it's a toy or rawhide. He isn't ripping it out of the dogs mouth. He just takes hold of one end and the dog growls. I puppysit while they are at work/school so I am with the dog most of the day. He does not growl or guard toys or food when I need to get them from him.

Items are sometimes items he should not have but he lets me just open his mouth and remove the items he should not have. These are the items he's been told "NO!" for and he does understand the "no". In most cases, he does stop before even picking the item up.

Most of the time, the items in question are just a rawhide or a squeeky toy that he is enjoying playing with. He doesn't mind if I lift it away from him, especially if it's a ball or something I have been throwing for him to retrieve. He will give it up to me without a problem. No growling or hesitation. But my nephew, who does tend to rough house a bit more with the puppy than I do. He imitates how his dad plays with the dog which is in a more rough and tumble manner.

Doxies are known to be incredibly snippy with children - mini or standard, doesn't matter, they, like many smaller breeds are not as tolerant of poking and proding. That, and, any dog with a mutation that elongates the spine makes them prone to spinal injury meaning they will be less tolerant of certain types of handling. This is why famlies with children need to take extra care when selecting an appropriate breed. Just because they wanted one, doesn't make it the right choice for their situation. Eleven years old and he knows nothing about self control? I find a few issues with this scenario. One, there are many breeeders who won't place their dogs in homes with young children or with young couples planning to have children because the dog are too delicate physically to handle it. The other reason, is that every child should be taught how to appropriately interact with ALL dogs, not just the family pet. Most dog bites occur to children, by a dog they are familiar with.

It's innapropriate that the father is teaching his son to be so rough, but saying that it isn't your child so it's none of your business isnt' the correct approach either. If you are with this child all day, it IS your responsibility to teach him how to behave while you are there. To just sit back and allow it to happen "because the parents let him do it" isn't acceptable. Teachers don't just let kids run around the class screaming and throwing toys because the parents allow it at home. That's what turns children into respectable adults. Sure it might be more effective coming from a parent, but any guidance in life is part of them learning how to behave in situations. If you allow the child to harass the dog on your watch, then you are just as much to blame if the dog finally does escalate to a bite. And it will happen. Growling only goes on for so long - it's a warning and it needs to be addressed. And if you feel you have no control over the child, you do the next best thing and remove the dog to his crate or a safe area where he cannot be harassed.

My dogs are incredibly tolerant of my infant daughter. Does that mean they love all children? Absolutely not. But I don't put them in situations that force them to make a bad choice. I also don't just allow my daughter to just be with the dogs. I always supervise, and if she does get rough, I remove her. This teaches the dogs that I am in control of the situation and I will always protect them, and also teaches my daughter that if she wishes to play with the dogs, there are limitations. At 6mos old she is more than able to learn cause and effect. I don't allow rough housing and would never tolerate her responding that way to any dog. She can't grow up thinking that if her dogs are ok with it, all dogs are ok with it. She will learn how to read body language and act appropriately and respect that not all dogs want to be bothered. I find it disturbing that my 6mo old child is more dog savvy than children who are capable of conversaions involving reasoning.

What he takes isn't the issue. Resource guarding can be defined by anything in which THAT DOG finds be of a high value. Some dogs might guard toilet paper or shoes, it doesn't have to be food. And it's how he takes it. Sure ripping it awy will create a lunging behavior from the dog, but grabbing the end just holding it and staring - that's a direct challenge to the dog. How you take it may be totally different, and if he's dropping it before you even get there, that's respect. He obviously has no respect for your nephew, but from the sounds of it why should he? He gets tossed around and manhandled then when he finally settles down to have some alone time, the kid shows up again to bother him. I know a LOT of dogs who react the same way! And if your nephew then goes away after the growl, the dog has now learned growling is a successful way to get people to leave him alone. Much like barking dogs learn that barking "chases the mailman way", it's classic cause and effect. If after a while the growl isn't succssful, and he contines to harrass, that's when the dog will either "fight or flight". If your lucky he will chose to leave the situation, but more oftan than not, escalation leads to a warning bite or a nip. It doesn't break skin, and they may not even make contact, but it's not by mistake that they miss. They are making a point. I could bite you but I chose not to so leave me alone.

And really, most dogs don't truely understand the the word 'no'. It's far too broad of a concept. What they learn through repetition is the word, when pronounced with a particularly stern undertone, means that the human saying it isn't happy. If you said 'banana' everytime you were angry, he'd learn to do the same with that word. Unless you specifically train the dog to a meaning if the word, it's useless. To you, 'no' varies based on the situation: 'no' don't pee in the house, 'no' don't lick the table, 'no' don't put that shoe in your mouth, 'no' don't go on the couch....none of these has a common denominator, they all involve completely different body parts and thoughts from the dog - they cannot make the connection, ie a command cannot have multiple meanings. Example: down means lay down...it cannot also mean get off the couch and don't jump on people. The distinction needs to be that 'down' means lay down, and something like 'off' means do not place your feet on objects.

I don't assume that beause a child isnt' mine I can't teach them. One of the things I do i s go into schools wth my dogs to teach dog ettiquette to children.. I have no problem calling them out if what they are doing is going to put them into a hairy situation with a dog. I do this when I walk my dogs in public. If someone approaches innapproprately, I yell out before they can touch my dog that they need to stop immediately. Sometimes they assume I'm going to say my dogs areaggressive and they turn away, that's fine with me. But if they stop and look for direction I explain how they need to approach and how to properly make contact. I talk about why this is the best way and they hopefully take that information with them. It's the job of every dog owner to educate those around them.
 

CavyMama

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Um wow "inappropriate", "unacceptable" -- people in glass houses...

You are making an awful lot of assumptions about the situation and overstepping bounds here.

Eleven years old and he knows nothing about self control?

Who said he knows nothing about self-control? He's 11. 11 yr old boys don't always think things all the way through. They make errors in judgment and do dumb things but to say he "knows nothing about self-control" is one of those assumptions I was talking about.

It's innapropriate that the father is teaching his son to be so rough, but saying that it isn't your child so it's none of your business isnt' the correct approach either.

"To be so rough"? All I said was that they are a little "rough and tumble" and that they "rough house" with him. I never said anything that would indicate HOW rough. They aren't tossing the dog around. They aren't pulling his tail. They aren't pounding on him. They get on the ground with him, wrestle a little with him, turn him over, rub his belly, shake his snout. They aren't hurting the dog in any way. They just play more rough than I would.

I also never said it "wasn't my business". I DO correct him when I see him doing something he shouldn't - like teasing the dog with a toy then taking it away. What I meant was, it's hard to lay down the law when I don't live in the house to make sure it's followed through on. I don't make decisions about the dog so my thoughts on it don't hold much weight.

If you are with this child all day, it IS your responsibility to teach him how to behave while you are there.

When did I say I was with the child all day? He's 11, he's in school all day. I said I puppy sit, not kid-sit. When he's home, his parents are home.

I find it disturbing that my 6mo old child is more dog savvy than children who are capable of conversaions involving reasoning.

Another assumption.

Resource guarding can be defined by anything in which THAT DOG finds be of a high value. Some dogs might guard toilet paper or shoes, it doesn't have to be food.

I know that. In this case, it happens to be a chew toy or a rawhide.

sure ripping it awy will create a lunging behavior from the dog, but grabbing the end just holding it and staring - that's a direct challenge to the dog.

Reread what I wrote. I said the DOG held onto the end and was staring at my nephew's hand.

And if your nephew then goes away after the growl, the dog has now learned growling is a successful way to get people to leave him alone.

I mentioned that to him but he thinks it's funny that this little dog is "acting" so tough by growling.

And really, most dogs don't truely understand the the word 'no'.

Yes, I know. I even said, it has more to do with the tone of voice than the word being said.
 

sassyfirechick

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They aren't tossing the dog around. They aren't pulling his tail. They aren't pounding on him. They get on the ground with him, wrestle a little with him, turn him over, rub his belly, shake his snout. They aren't hurting the dog in any way. They just play more rough than I would.

And I never said anything about hurting the dog. Any kind of rough housing with a doxie is a bit rediculous.
 
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