Animal Welfare Boycott etsy!

[doganddisc]

I don't see anything wrong with it either, if they're the skins and heads of animals killed for meat or which died of other, natural, causes. I know there are people who'd argue it's cruel to eat rabbits, but I don't think so - it's a way of being self-sufficient, and quite honestly, I have a lot of respect for those folks who eat meat who actually will kill the animal they are eating themselves. It's a lot less antiseptic than walking into a grocery store and buying a hunk of meat while sparing ourselves the thought that once that was an animal who was living and breathing ... So, if that's the source of the heads/skins/skulls, I see no harm. And I wouldn't imagine she's raising the animals just for their heads and skins, else she'd have many more available.

Paula, I completely agree. The more I learn about mass production of animals, the more determined I am to raise my own food. That way I can be in control of what goes into the animal, how the animal is treated, and the process with which the slaughter occurs.

I am studying Animal Science right now at a well regarded university and the attitude of some other students who "love animals" absolutely disgusts me. They have zero respect for cattle because they are "dumb" and "just for food". On the contrary, I found cattle to be absolutely delightful to work with. They have a very inquisitive nature and, when I trained a cow for show using only positive reinforcement, I found the cows I worked with ended up enjoying my company when they knew I came with good treats! I witnessed several other people hit their cows right on the face, just for mooing!

Knowing how they treat the animals when they are just students and under the eye of IACUC and professors really makes me wonder about how they would treat them behind closed doors. These are the people who will be going on to run the slaughter houses and feed pens. I would much rather have total control of where my animal comes from and the life they experience.

 

[Paula]

Yeah. I'm always both a little amused and a little disgusted when folks get all upset about pets we keep as pets being used as meat, when in reality the majority raised on small farms and feeding a single family or small community live and die a thousand times more humanely than the vast majority of animals raised and killed for mass commercial food production in this country. And really, this Etsy seller is putting the whole animal to use, so unless there's something cruel about her husbandry and slaughter practices, I can't take issue with what she's doing. I wonder how many of the folks so happily signing the "petition" also eat beef or chicken without a second thought. Disgusting, really.

 

[MissJean]

I think the entire petition had an aim of putting people into shock and disgust, relying on the knee-jerk reaction for signatures. Being blasted with a picture of chopped off bunny heads definitely had me a bit peeved, then I read the "about this petition" and that's when I started thinking,"Wait a minute..."

I notice she's in Washington. We have quite an interesting art scene here. I think it was last year, a nude model crawled inside a dead horse.

 

[Paula]

The image is photoshopped. A skinned face wouldn't have whiskers and the ears wouldn't stand up with no cartlidge. Makes me wonder what else about the petition is fudged, fake or false. It disappoints me that people get so upset and buy into everything they read without bothering to get the whole story.

 

[MissJean]

The image is photoshopped. A skinned face wouldn't have whiskers and the ears wouldn't stand up with no cartlidge. Makes me wonder what else about the petition is fudged, fake or false. It disappoints me that people get so upset and buy into everything they read without bothering to get the whole story.

The same picture is in the Etsy shop's sold section here: fibersall on Etsy - Sold Items

I don't know anything about taxidermy.

 

[Paula]

Yeah, you're right. I confused it with another photo I came across whilst searching for more info on this seemingly self-serving petition. Thanks! I still wonder if the person who started the petition bothered contacting the seller before deciding it was cruel and heartless and launching a crusade to stop it. If the seller was killing them for their heads, that would be cruel. If the seller is using parts of an animal slaughtered for meat that would otherwise go to waste, that changes the story entirely. Which is why it would be awesome for people to get the whole story before coming to any conclusions about how cruel or disgusting something is.

 

[schavarry]

I notice she's in Washington. We have quite an interesting art scene here. I think it was last year, a nude model crawled inside a dead horse.

Not to jack the thread... but EWWW! Really?! :eye-poppi

I get that people are into art out here, some of the stuff I've seen is REALLY cool but a lot of it is BEYOND me. The model & dead horse thing is so far beyond me I couldn't reach it with a 40ft pole!!

 

[Paula]

Not to jack the thread... but EWW

I meant to comment on this too. Was it freshly dead, or dried out a bit first? Yeek!! I don't think we Oregonians have the same taste in "art". TG.

 

[schavarry]

I meant to comment on this too. Was it freshly dead, or dried out a bit first? Yeek!!

I don't know which is worse!! That's like the question, would you rather drink urine warm or cold?!

 

[MissJean]

I meant to comment on this too. Was it freshly dead, or dried out a bit first? Yeek!! I don't think we Oregonians have the same taste in "art". TG.

The horse was old and beyond saving, so it was put down...the model made a long incision in it's belly while the corpse was fresh. The only thing that truly bothered me about it was they euthanized it via shotgun to head. They said it was instant death...but I don't know.

Oh, and I do love or Oregon neighbors! We're a strange bunch over in this part of the country. I like it most of the time.

 

[doganddisc]

I meant to comment on this too. Was it freshly dead, or dried out a bit first? Yeek!! I don't think we Oregonians have the same taste in "art". TG.

The woman was from Oregon :O

Jasha Lottin, Oregon Woman, Took Nude Photos Inside Horse Carcass (PHOTOS)

(no graphic photos on page unless you click further into them).

 

[Paula]

They said it was instant death...but I don't know.

A bullet to the head is instantaneous. It isn't the most humane means of euthanasia because of the fear and confusion prior to death, but that's true of euthanasia in general. What was the point of the display? Ha, yes we are an odd lot, though I'm not a native!

Edit - thanks for the link! Answers my question about the "point."

 

[schavarry]

I agree with this quote from the link:
"This is definitely number one on the oddity list," Thompson said. "It's like nothing I've ever seen before."

I think I remember hearing about this in the news a while back...

 

[Mastershroom]

The only thing that truly bothered me about it was they euthanized it via shotgun to head. They said it was instant death...but I don't know.

The article referred to it as a "large caliber rifle" rather than a shotgun (rifle = single bullet, shotgun = multiple small pellets spread from a single shell) but either way, long story short...that's about as instant as it gets.

 

[Paula]

In the interest of getting this thread back to its original topic ... So, I've heard back from the seller, who I actually find to be quite articulate and intelligent and not at all cruel or seemingly inhumane in her practices. I'm reposting this here with permission.

These are from rabbits that were butchered for meat. It would be pretty much insane, even from a business perspective, to kill them for a $15 dried face mask! I use the parts that would ordinarilly be thrown away or into a compost pile at best. A very few did die of natural causes, but only if they were found soon enough for everything to be in good shape could they be used. They were all legally butchered in a state department of agriculture inspected mobile facility, and came from a small rabbitry where they had good care, OTHERWISE there would be no value, anyway!​

The following is a response to this petition, which was what I confused with the other petition originally linked in my earlier response (please note that image might be disturbing if you don't realize it's a faked photo). That doesn't name Fibersall directly, but does comment on the rabbit heads, and provides very misleading and inaccurate information - "A case in point is the grisly pet rabbits heads that are being sold via etsy. These offensive and gruesome trinkets are the full face and head of dismembered pet rabbits and are clearly the result of animal cruelty and incomprehensible violence. For the face to remain in tact the animal will not have been pre stunned and they were very likely to have been skinned and dismembered alive."

Here is the response from Fibersall:

The petition going around is exceedingly inaccurate from the picture at the top on down! That is a photoshopped picture. If you have looked at it and thought about it, would a skinned face still have whiskers? If the ear cartledge was still left behind, would it also be in the dried ears, making them stand up? The written part of the petition is even less accurate than that. I hope I am not giving more info than you wanted... but skinning an animal live being faster and more valuable? Aside from teh emotional part of that, strictly speaking about the physical realities, it would take much longer with an animal fighting and kicking as they should. Plus, there would be damage to the pelt from not being blead out first, etc. The entire senario came out of someone's sick, twisted mind, not out of any farmers' reality!

It does not feel good to be getting death threats from these people, and there is no way of knowing how far they will carry it, but I asure you, what I am doing is trying to make use of as much as possible when an animal gives it's life to feed someone. Wasting parts seems very wrong to me.

And this is another comment further down in the conversation, about commercial farming.

Actually, I have very real issues with the commercial farming methods on all levels. Monsanto, Cargill, Tyson ~ those are worthy targets, and I refuse to eat food raised in such sad and unhealthy conditions. I am not a believer of 'out of sight out of mind' being ok! Our few cows, sheep, turkeys and geese have free range on pastures in very uncrowded conditions. They get a lot of personal attention and are very much part of our family. Our breeding animals live to an exceptionally old age. The offspring destined to be food have as good a life, just shorter. I do not feel guilt over that.

Quite honestly, there is nothing inhumane about what this person is doing - nothing cruel or grisly or extremely violent and actually, I think what should be at issue here is the website that allows anyone with any agenda to start a petition with little to no actual facts needing to be provided. I'd encourage you all to dig deeper and get all the facts, or at least both sides of any story before getting upset to the point of "disgust."

I have pet rabbits, too; two of them very large flemish giants that are intended to be meat rabbits. My choice to keep them as pets doesn't mean that those who raise them as food are doing anything inherently cruel; in fact, it's quite the opposite when you consider the alternative of commercial farming and meat production in this country.

Passing judgment on a different way of living is what I find disgusting and flying off in an internet rage saying that people should be rotting in hell after reading one person's version of truth is silly, at best. I really appreciate the folks who took the time to look further into the actual story. I certainly won't be signing any petition started on half truths and distorted facts, and I would encourage others not to, also.

​

 

[doganddisc]

Paula, thank you for the eloquent and informative post.

 

[sdpiggylvr]

Thank you to everyone who contacted the seller so we could learn more. I don't think boycotting Etsy itself is the action to take if you are against what she sells. The shops themselves are relatively independent entities and have the right to sell what they so desire (within reason: there is a list of rules they must follow in order to avoid being reported and removed). If you don't agree with what she sells, just don't buy her items. I avoid shops that sell shoes and bags that are made with leather.

If she is raising the animals in a humane and ethical manner, then I see no reason to sign a petition or report her to Etsy. I don't like any animal dying for our own use, but there are far worse cruelties to animals in this world than her shop.

 

[MissJean]

She replied to me,too. She seems so nice. I can't believe she's getting threatening letters! I feel so sorry about that. I feel bad about originally being put off by her,too. I even have things like coyote skulls from when my neighbor would go out and find already deceased carcasses. Maybe I'll buy something from her. I love bones.

 

[doganddisc]

She replied to me,too. She seems so nice. I can't believe she's getting threatening letters! I feel so sorry about that. I feel bad about originally being put off by her,too. I even have things like coyote skulls from when my neighbor would go out and find already deceased carcasses. Maybe I'll buy something from her. I love bones.

I was actually thinking of buying something from her too. She has some pretty cool stuff there. I love bones as well!

 

[scarlettraven]

Well, now don't I feel stupid...I signed the petition :ashamed: