Adopt vs. Buy Adopted (yes, adopted) from PetSmart

[GizzyandMe]

I'm sorry you've managed to convince yourself that your deceased pig would have wanted you to get pigs from a pet store. Is there a reason he wouldn't care about the next batch to hit the drawer?

I have to say I just read this whole post and the only thing that is sticking to mind is the above quote. Totally uncalled for!!!! :expressio

 

[blackarrow]

I have to say I just read this whole post and the only thing that is sticking to mind is the above quote. Totally uncalled for!!!! :expressio

I'm sorry it disturbs you, but I would honestly like to know.

I completely appreciate that these pigs the original posters took were in a dreadful situation. I also completely understand that the Petsmart employees didn't suddenly morph from being uncaring people who kept living merchandise in a drawer to giving the pigs away out of the goodness of their hearts. The store is getting something out of the transaction, and that's a pity. They would have gotten nothing positive out of Animal Control coming, that's for sure.

 

[GizzyandMe]

I do not know enough about the way Animal Control is handled in your country to say if it was a good thing or not! In South Africa (thanks to my super Vet) I found out due to the complete lack of knowledge our local Animal Control has when it comes to Exotic/luxury pets (like Guinea Pigs) you actually need to have a Vet that will back up the claim that the animals are being treated wrong. To you and me and a million other people - being stuck in a space to small with not the efficient amount of food, etc is Obviously mistreating the animal but not to the cretins that work at our local Animal Control Center! If your Animal control centers are more educated about the needs of these animals then go for it - phone them - but here I learned that it helps you squat! Get a vet and get them to convince animal control to move the pets into the Vets care for re-homing.

And frankly I would have done EXACTLY the same and grabbed those piggies before the store changes their mind again! Sorry - I would! How can I not - I am human.

 

[luvmycavies]

The entire posting is the reason why I no longer frequent stores like this and buy all my piggy goods at a farm/feed store, online or make it myself.
I think the OP was really thinking with her heart and wanting a better life for those poor pigs...and I believe they will get it. BUT..the unfortunate truth is, any adoption/rescue or purchase from a pet store just goes toward more animals in bad situations.:weepy:

 

[VoodooJoint]

Here is a post/thread that people here may find helpful.

First a thread about what adoption and rescue means when it comes to animal welfare. https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/special-reference/47469-what-rescuing-adopting.html#post445355

Please pay attention to the parts that state;

"To truly rescue an animal it must be removed from a situation without allowing the perpetrator to profit or enable them to use the loss of the animal to accommodate the suffering of more animals in it's place. For example. Taking a breeder's "culls" for free only creates more room for the breeder to keep breeding and create more culls. In this case you would be doing more damage then good.

To truly adopt, the animal must be in relatively safe and decent care and have come to be there because it was rescued, seized, or dumped. In some cases of hardship a normally good home may also need to rehome or adopt out their pet/s."

This case clearly allows the perpetrators of the neglect/cruelty to benefit from the animal's removal and creates room for them to continue their misdeeds. They have been rewarded for their behavior.

The sentiment and intention behind taking these GPs out of the situation is good but the end result actually only aids in creating more suffering. The cycle goes on.

 

[bpatters]

It seems to me that a lot of heat and energy is being wasted by people who love guinea pigs arguing with other people who love guinea pigs, all of whom would prefer not to see them abused. I've got a few thoughts on the subject, in no particular order.

One, I agree with the poster who said that these two guinea pigs were already out of the pet mill cycle -- if Lauren hadn't taken them, the next snake owner who walked in the store probably would have. They were going to die, and soon, either from neglect or by being eaten. While the lives of two guinea pigs don't count for much when weighed against the lives of all the guinea pigs in all the pet mills across the country, they do count for something. I'd have taken them too.

Two, the definitions of "adopt" that I can find online say nothing about screening. Essentially, Lauren used a perfectly acceptable definition of "adopt," even if its not one that blackarrow would prefer. I adopted (blackarrow's definition) my pigs from a very well respected guinea pig rescue, but for all they really knew, I could have been intending to set up my own breeding operation. Screening is good, but rescues don't have the staff to really verify where their animals are going.

Three, perhaps someone could come up with a generally accepted procedure for reporting mistreated animals and it could be posted as a sticky thread. I know there are differences in state laws, but there are bound to be some common elements, and posters who wanted to know what to do could be pointed to that thread. I'll be glad to do it, but won't be able to until after the Thanksgiving holiday.

Four, rather than squabbling amongst ourselves, why don't we direct this energy toward stopping the pet stores from selling the animals at all? We talk a lot about that, but unless the pressure is directed toward the stores, not the guinea pig lovers, we're wasting our time.

A quick search online this morning turned up several sites that are working toward ending the pet mills, some more effectively than others, but they'd all probably appreciate the help. If there were a list of the pet stores that sell animals, and the names and addresses of the people responsible for setting the policies that allow them to do that, we could encourage people to write letters that would let them know about our disapproval, not just the folks here. Again, I'll be glad to work on a list, but it'll be a while.

Just my $.02, of course.

 

[veganmunkee]

no animal would be put down at petsmart unless they were sick... not aggressive...
where do you get your awful info from??

 

[VoodooJoint]

no animal would be put down at petsmart unless they were sick... not aggressive...
where do you get your awful info from??

But they will "adopt out" guinea pigs for free to and keep those animals marked as damaged goods in small, drawer-like cages. The fact that the GPs were taken by someone with good intentions instead of as reptile food or torture targets is incidental, not intentional.

The ways in which those animals could have suffered is far worse then a kind euthanasia. Thank you for correcting the possibility that Petsmart would choose euthanasia over abuse/neglect. It actually makes them seem MORE like a monstrous, blood corporation in my eyes instead of less, as I'm certain you intended.

 

[Ama4884]

I just read this whole thread and am stunned that this turned into a debate.

I would have done the same thing Yoshi did. I could not have left them sitting in the back room neglected until they died.

My newest piggy Lucy came from Craigslist, and the woman I got her from originally got her from a breeder. Does that make me a bad person? I saved her from sitting in a tiny cage on the floor surrounded by cats. Since she originally came from a breeder, should I have just left her to suffer? I think not.

I give kudos to Yoshi for saving two piggies from neglect.

 

[fieryone]

My newest piggy Lucy came from Craigslist, and the woman I got her from originally got her from a breeder. Does that make me a bad person? I saved her from sitting in a tiny cage on the floor surrounded by cats. Since she originally came from a breeder, should I have just left her to suffer? I think not.

No. You didn't get the pig from the breeder so he/she isn't breeding more guinea pigs to replace the one that you adopted. They did breed more to replace that pig, but not due to your adoption of her. You didn't have anything to do with the cycle, the person you got the pig from did.

It's so, so hard to see animals suffer. I would have a very hard time walking away from the pigs in the drawer and I would most likely feel compelled to do exactly what Yoshi did as well. This is why I can't go into a pet store ever again. This was just reinforced for me this weekend when I was looking for a syringe with fractions of a milileter. I couldn't find one at the drug store so I tried Petco. They didn't have one and I left the store sad. I can never go in there again.

 

[blackarrow]

I'd like to know why any of you who are posing the alternatives as taking the pigs vs. leaving them to die are omitting the alternative of calling Animal Control to have them actually do something about this situation. I'd also like to know why it's any better to contribute to a pet store you know is participating in animal abuse by buying their products than by buying their pigs.

Good intentions don't excuse helping this store remain prosperous by purchasing products there.

 

[blackarrow]

Two, the definitions of "adopt" that I can find online say nothing about screening. Essentially, Lauren used a perfectly acceptable definition of "adopt," even if its not one that blackarrow would prefer.

You are absolutely right, there is no fixed definition of "adopt." In fact, a lot of people I know like to use the term "adopt" to mean "buy from a breeder" just because it sounds a lot more lovey-dovey. I frankly think that cheapens and degrades the term. I do think those who buy ought simply to own that fact.

Four, rather than squabbling amongst ourselves, why don't we direct this energy toward stopping the pet stores from selling the animals at all? We talk a lot about that, but unless the pressure is directed toward the stores, not the guinea pig lovers, we're wasting our time.

That's in fact why I'm continuing with this line in the face of people who are willing to tell the original posters that what they did is laudable. As I mentioned before, the "good intentions" argument is used time and time again by virtually everyone who bought their pigs from a crappy pet store - "I just couldn't leave them there!" Which does nothing but guarantee that there will be more pigs in that same crappy pet store the following week, and that the pet store owner will get a nice plump paycheck for making it happen. I can't think of a better place to start with breaking the cycle of guinea pigs in pet stores than with the consumer. The seller is certainly not going to stop just because people send letters if it remains profitable, which it will if people continue to shop there, and are applauded for taking pigs from there.

 

[ojars]

You did the right thing in my book saving those piggies and that is much more important than a label! Breaks my heart to imagine the awful conditions Ollie and Wally endured. Our animal control office lost its funding and is no more. In these days of budget cuts right thinking folks have to take action. It is hard for me to imagine that some cavies are more deserving than others. Kudos for saving Wally and Ollie.

 

[blackarrow]

It is hard for me to imagine that some cavies are more deserving than others.

Where did you get the notion that anyone thinks some cavies are more deserving than others? And is there any reason to believe that because your town apparently has no animal control officer, no one should call their own city's animal control officer?

 

[bpatters]

Blackarrow, I agree with you that some people totally misuse the term "adopt." "Buy" is not a synonym for "adopt," whether bought from a breeder or a pet shop. But Lauren didn't buy, she just used "adopt" in a way you don't happen to agree with.

And I do disagree with you that the best place to break the guinea pig/pet store cycle is with the consumer. It's an important part of it, but in my opinion, it's not the most important part. There are millions more potential consumers out there than there are pet stores or pet store chains, and they're harder to reach. This forum is a nearly perfect example of that -- just look at the numbers of people who get their guinea pigs from pet stores before they come here to do any research. You're always playing catch-up -- please adopt the next time.

If you break the cycle higher up -- where the stores are buying and selling guinea pigs, you pretty much eliminate the consumer who buys them from stores. (It won't stop those who buy from breeders, but that's another fight altogether.) You have a far smaller target audience, you can work toward legislation that keeps them from selling small animals, you can spend your efforts mobilizing public opinion against them, etc. In short, you've got a better chance of hitting your target, with more different kinds of ammunition, than you do when you aim mostly at the consumer. Granted, it takes more effort to convince a big chain to give up a profit-making operation, but it can be done. None of the big chains with local outlets here sell kittens or puppies any more -- they have rescues come in periodically to offer them for adoption, and make their money off leashes, pet food, toys, crates, etc. Somewhere, sometime, someone stopped them from selling puppies and kittens. Why can't we do that with small furry animals?

I wonder how truly profitable the sales of the animals themselves are. Our local Petco had the same two pitiful guinea pigs in an aquarium for weeks. Merchandise that doesn't move isn't usually profitable merchandise. I think there's at least a chance that someone could persuade pet stores that they'd come out ahead by refusing to sell the animals, if the animal owners would agree to shop there for supplies. That would also require some education of the store owners and personnel as to what the proper supplies are, but you're still working with that smaller target audience.

One more thought about your consumer analogy. Would you think it's the most important part of breaking the cycle of drug abuse in this country to focus on the user? I doubt it. It's important, very important, to put some efforts toward that, but as long as the drugs keep making their way to the streets, people are going to use them. Same principle with the guinea pigs.

 

[veganpiggy]

I think what Lauren and Ben did was close to what any of us would have done. I would have contacted PETA- they'd use the situation for their petsmart campaign, but I would have taken the pigs also. Perhaps you guys could give PETA the info? The place to do it is here: PetSmart Cruelty // What You Can Do // Blow the Whistle on Cruelty
I don't think animal control would do anything but rescue them and put them up for adoption.
Congrats on your new pair!

 

[blackarrow]

Granted, it takes more effort to convince a big chain to give up a profit-making operation, but it can be done. None of the big chains with local outlets here sell kittens or puppies any more -- they have rescues come in periodically to offer them for adoption, and make their money off leashes, pet food, toys, crates, etc. Somewhere, sometime, someone stopped them from selling puppies and kittens. Why can't we do that with small furry animals?

They were not "stopped" from doing it. They realized they were LOSING MONEY on it because people were boycotting stores which sold puppies and kittens. We CAN do that with small furry animals. I strongly suggest we do.

I wonder how truly profitable the sales of the animals themselves are. Our local Petco had the same two pitiful guinea pigs in an aquarium for weeks. Merchandise that doesn't move isn't usually profitable merchandise.

It isn't profitable to sell them - they're what's called a "loss leader." It is very profitable to sell the junk that the stores sell along with them - it's well worth taking a $5 "hit" per pig if you can sell a crappy cage for $50 profit and yogurt drops for a $2 profit per visit and crappy pellets for a 50% profit per visit and bedding for a 30% markup per visit.

I think there's at least a chance that someone could persuade pet stores that they'd come out ahead by refusing to sell the animals, if the animal owners would agree to shop there for supplies.

Precisely right, and that's what happened with the dogs and cats. Unfortunately, that will not work if, as here, the customers are already supporting the stores selling the pigs by buying their supplies there.

One more thought about your consumer analogy. Would you think it's the most important part of breaking the cycle of drug abuse in this country to focus on the user? I doubt it.

That's where you're wrong. I absolutely do think it's the most important part of breaking the cycle of drug abuse to focus on the user. I'm not about to use drugs no matter how cheap they are or easy they are to get, and serious addicts will do whatever they can to get the drugs, no matter how expensive they are or how hard they are to obtain. Availability does not dictate use.

 

[MyZoo2]

Personally, I wouldn't have left those pigs in that condition either and I am not going to debate how the cycle continues either.

We had a local petshop that was selling dogs in the most deplorable conditions, and many of those dogs were dying within days of purchase. It took months of complaints, and then a local news agency investigating before animal control even gave it a look. So if you think animal control is going to respond to a complaint about 2 guinea pigs in the utmost deplorable conditions you are most likely wrong. It is also my understanding that a lot of pet shops are actually under the guidance of the USDA and their inspection process, so it might do more good to file a complaint with the USDA (dept of agriculture) and the local animal control.

My personal experience with animal control is pretty poor. We adopted our youngest gray tabby from Every Creature Counts (they, by the way, do many of their adoptions through Petsmart & Petco). We decided to bath her, and she bit my husband which required a visit to an urgent care for antibotics. The filed a report as they are required to. We got a notice on our door, and we called to respond. They wanted to quarantine the cat at their facility for 10 days despite the fact she had her rabies shot. We refused, as she was not showing any signs of rabies and she had her shots. They wanted to have a follow up visit to inspect the animal, and they never showed up despite my repeated phone calls requesting a follow up. The comical part is, the report included her animal control ID (they have to be registered here) which in order to get you have to file a copy of their rabies tag. So maybe they never followed up, becuase in hindsight they already had all the proper documentation to begin with. My point is, a lot of animal controls operate in this manner - no follow through.

 

[crazywiggy]

Just my two cents:

1) I completely understand why a person who cares about animals would want to get two little pigs out of a horrendous, abusive situation asap - I really do. I believe 100% that the original poster's intentions were good, and I know I would personally find it hard to walk away (although I would).

2) I do not believe getting a pet store pig for free is quite so bad as paying for one, as at least you are not making them any money.

3) However, just because no cash changed hands does not mean no damage was done.

For one thing, animals are not like other "merchandise" that can be left in storage and forgotten about. They COST the store money - in food, bedding, even the cost of euthanasing them. The longer the animals stay in the pet store - the more money the store loses. If the pet store realises "We don't make any profit from animals" then great. But if they go so far as to think "We actually LOSE money on these animals" then that is better, as it is more likely to discourage them from stocking them.

Secondly, whether or not you paid is to a certain extent beside the point. You went in to buy supplies, saw some pigs and bought them on impulse. That is EXACTLY what the stores want people to do. You have effectively just told the store "stocking animals works because it encourages customers, and impulse buying". You have also just emphasised that there is still a demand for pet store pigs - even the sick / aggressive ones.

As many people have already said, it is great that these 2 pigs are now safe - but what about all the rest? The only way to break the cycle and to save every would-be pet store pig from this suffering is for pet stores to stop selling them. The only way to get them to do this is to stop getting animals from them - free or paid for.

Bpatters - many of us DO take the fight to the people further up. I have written to various pet stores asking them to stop selling live animals and telling them I will not be buying anything there until they do. I have wrotten to newspapers and websites asking them not to advertise for stores that sell animals. I have written to the givernment asking them to ban the sale of animals in pet shops. So have many other people, but no luck so far....

One problem is that the stores don't give a hoot what we think. They don't care that some bunny-hugging wierdos refuse to shop there - because so many thousands of "animal lovers" still do. You will never convince the stores to stop selling animals for ethical reasons because they simply do not care. They only way (save legislation) is to make it too costly for them. Money is the only language they understand.

I do want to emphasise, my problem is not with the intentions of someone like the original poster. My problem is with the stores and the breeders that supply them. But when even the real animal lovers, who know about adoption, overpopulation etc STILL get pet store pigs then we have no hope.