Rant about irresponsible dog owners.

I have two large dogs that I take on long walks at least twice a day, and I often take them in to stores when and where I can ... I (unlike many people it turns out) feel a tremendous responsibility to keep them under control around other people and dogs and to be in control of them at all times. I have actually annoyed people at dog parks by being far less into the conversation amongst the humans because I am watching my dog(s) to make sure they are behaving acceptably at all times. One of my biggest pet peeves on the earth is people who don't or won't control their dogs, especially people with small dogs who think that the same behavior that would be deemed "aggressive" and "unacceptable" for my 55 and 75 lb dogs is "cute" with their little terriers and chihuahuas and I've unfortunately had a couple similar situations to the one you've described. Unfortunately if neither dog bit another animal or person, there probably isn't much you can do. Aggressive behavior that doesn't amount to anything is scary but there's probably not anything enforceable, just based on what you said. I do, however, think you'd both benefit from you reaching out to the other owner, after a few days or weeks when things have settled, to suggest that they might need to consider some socialization and/or training for their dog for their peace of mind and the safety of their dog. I did this in both cases and the first, I was pretty much told to screw off and a few months later the dog attacked and killed another dog in its own yard and was destroyed after a long battle; the second, the owners actually considered my advice and thanked me for it after their dog had gone through some basic training because they realized he was a serious liability that could have done something worse and come to a similar end.

So sorry you had to go through this, some people just don't like to admit that they can't control their dogs well, and will make up crazy stories to make it someone else's fault.

I'm training a Service Dog, therefore I have my dog in pet stores a lot (The only places you can legally take the dog without permission when in training) And some of the owners I just can't believe. :yuck: There was one lady who let her dog come up to Bella (Which I didn't like, but I just let it happen) And her dog had horrible body langue and growled at Bella, I walked a bit away because the lady didn't pull her dog away, but then she just let her dog keep coming closer on one of those darn flexi leashes (So the dog could get extremely far from her) and I asked her "Could you please get your dog away?" But she looked at me with this look of death and did no such thing, so I just left. I also met someone who had a choke collar and a prong collar on at the same time (I'm not in support of either, let alone both at the same time) Whose dog was acting like crazy and barking at Bella and PULLING on the choke and prong collar to get to her. The owners did nothing other than repeat "Stop, stop, stop, stop, calm down, calm down, calm down." Over and over and over. I ended up walking out of the store because I felt bad for the dog. Another time a long while ago, we decided to try a training class at the pet store, she knew everything, but I thought it would be good for working on ignoring other dogs (Which she did great at) The one dog in the class was just trying to attack all the dogs none stop and the owner was laughing, she almost got Bella, so I just decided to leave.

So I was just on another forum for dogs browsing around and came across this statement and think it sums up exactly my thoughts on this:

stop complaining about your dog's behavior, he/she is simply doing what you taught him to do, and doing what you let him get away with. You need to be corrected, and trained, not your dog. The problem is you don't respond to corrections as well as your dog...

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I accidentally closed the page after copying the statement but it's on one of the doberman sites. Made me think of this thread when I saw it!

@Paula I can relate to allllll of that. @PigPandemonium I'll never understand why people think that every other dog they come across needs to meet...I don't find it nessecary to say hi to every single person I see.

I use choke collars in my classes and on my personal dogs. I believe that there is a very right way to use them, and a very wrong way. I also believe that not every dog should use them and some people should never and have also found myself walking away from people misusing them. It's saddening.

As for flexi-leads THANK GOD, WE GOT THEM ILLEGALIZED HERE. (Is that even a word? Oh well...) Words cannot express my hate for those things.

Something similar to this is on our business cards

Carissa6729 said:

So I was just on another forum for dogs browsing around and came across this statement and think it sums up exactly my thoughts on this:



I accidentally closed the page after copying the statement but it's on one of the doberman sites. Made me think of this thread when I saw it!

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@Paula also, I believe you're correct. I care more about this dog getting what it needs and these people being able to enjoy having a dog then punnishing them for being rude. I've been irrational in situations with high stress, and I certainly believe that tolerance and love for everyone is key in this wonderful world we live in.

Gosh, wouldn't my hippy parents be proud...

2198lindsey said:

@Paula I can relate to allllll of that. @PigPandemonium I'll never understand why people think that every other dog they come across needs to meet...I don't find it nessecary to say hi to every single person I see.

I use choke collars in my classes and on my personal dogs. I believe that there is a very right way to use them, and a very wrong way. I also believe that not every dog should use them and some people should never and have also found myself walking away from people misusing them. It's saddening.

As for flexi-leads THANK GOD, WE GOT THEM ILLEGALIZED HERE. (Is that even a word? Oh well...) Words cannot express my hate for those things.

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It's actually quite good to have your dog met every possible dog they can (Unless they are aggressive like the one dog is) as it's good socialization. Choke collars are another story... I very much believe that they should never be used, seeing as with all dogs they can be trained using positive methods rather than negative. I've trained a lot of dogs, dogs that have horrible problems pulling, horribly aggressive dogs that were going to be put down if their issues couldn't be solved, ect, and I have never had to use anything other than 100% positive methods, therefore I feel there is no need and it has been proven that negative methods can cause many mental issues with dogs. And the fact that you lose a lot of the bonding that you get from positive methods, as your dog sees you as the bringer of good things.

Those people sound like idiots. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that!

I hate when people falsely accuse others of wrongdoing, and they themselves know it's not the truth. Some folks just care about saving their own skin and pushing chaos onto others.

Not thinking about the security cameras is a testament to their stupidity.

@(broken link removed) I'm just also under the belief that there's such a thing as controlled socialization, and that only means that you know the other dog that you will be meeting so you know exactly what to expect. I've had too many instances with aggressive dogs like this where reading their body language came too late, because the owner either could not keep the dog back, or didn't care to get the dog out of my space. Which in turn, makes me a very upset Lindsey lol

@MissJean It'd be different if it was a different dog. But my dog literally models what dogs should do during a temperment tests sometimes! And unfortunately I feel like a lot of my community is filled with people like this.

I have a german shepeherd that likes to chase cats, i have to use a prong collar because she was to stron to hold back, i know for a fact that no matter what you bribe her with you will not get a positive reaction, she is too fixated on them.

I believe that if you dont need to use one then you should , but for me i had to. My dog is not aggresive at all shes a sweethart but hunting cats is in her blood.
sometimes you cant get a posiivfe reaction, even if the dog isnt agressive

Petie is actually a breed of dog called a treeing feist, he's bred to tree squirrels to be shot out of a tree by hunters so he has tons of prey drive, there are many ways to deal with this with using positive reinforcement. Prong collars are really harsh and I just wouldn't have your german shepard around cats.

This is just my opinion.

SMMJesssee said:

I have a german shepeherd that likes to chase cats, i have to use a prong collar because she was to stron to hold back, i know for a fact that no matter what you bribe her with you will not get a positive reaction, she is too fixated on them.

I believe that if you dont need to use one then you should , but for me i had to. My dog is not aggresive at all shes a sweethart but hunting cats is in her blood.
sometimes you cant get a posiivfe reaction, even if the dog isnt agressive

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SMMJesssee said:

I have a german shepeherd that likes to chase cats, i have to use a prong collar because she was to stron to hold back, i know for a fact that no matter what you bribe her with you will not get a positive reaction, she is too fixated on them.

I believe that if you dont need to use one then you should , but for me i had to. My dog is not aggresive at all shes a sweethart but hunting cats is in her blood.
sometimes you cant get a posiivfe reaction, even if the dog isnt agressive

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I recommend looking up Victoria Stilwell. She's a fantastic dog trainer that uses positive reinforcement. She even uses it with success on more aggressive dog breeds.

I also disagree with the use of shock and pronged collars.

MissJean said:

I recommend looking up Victoria Stilwell. She's a fantastic dog trainer that uses positive reinforcement. She even uses it with success on more aggressive dog breeds.

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She is the best! I interviewed her for a magazine article I wrote, and she really, really believes in what she's doing and in wanting to better the way dogs are treated/trained. She really hates dominance-based methods.

It boggles my mind how people can own dogs and let them run free with no care for what trouble they might get into. I don't own a dog, but a couple of months back I was dog-sitting for the neighbor's dog and was returning home from a walk. There were people way, way down the street, so far I could barely see them. Suddenly a very small dog came running at us like a maniac. No leash, and the people didn't even look away from their conversation despite my yelling to get their dog. I didn't know how Holmes would react, so I just got a good, tight grip on his collar and kept telling him to "Be good, be good." Thankfully, the small dog didn't bite him, but it kept lunging around as as we walked the remaining four doors down to the house, and I could barely keep it from coming on the porch. What if Holmes was an aggressive dog? He's big and could easily have bitten that little dog in two. I wonder if the idiots would have blamed him and me because they don't monitor or control their own pet. I feel sorry for that little dog because it's going to run up to the wrong dog someday.

I find it funny how you usually hear stories of the little Chihuahuas/terrier type dogs being the aggressive and uncontrolled dogs while the larger, expected to be more aggressive by stupidity's standards (ie. Pitbulls, dobermans, etc) are extremely well behaved and well mannered.

I've been known to threaten to punt a dog across the street if they didn't remove it from my presence and stick it on a leash, I don't care how small and "harmless" it is. In fairness though, it was a Chihuahua with a bad attitude that came running, baring teeth and snarling at my 1 year old child and the owners told me, "he just wants to say hi".

My other issue is on the flip side of the coin, is when people act stupid to dog owners. You tell them to back away because your dog is not friendly to strangers/other dogs etc., and they tell you, oh I'm sure it's fine let me stick my hand and my face in theirs and we'll see what happens!

We had a housekeeper that was very well informed she was NEVER to come into our house or on our property without us there and permission, period, end of story. We had a Bouvier (who are used as guard dogs/police dogs in Europe like German Shepherds), while lovable, he would protect his home with his last breath. Needless to say, she came on our property uninvited (over a locked wrought iron gate) while I was home alone, sick and sleeping and tried to pet my Beau when he was on guard, stiff demeanor, low growl stance. When she stupidly stuck her hand near his face, he bit her, once not repeatedly but hard enough to cause blood. Long story short, after a lawsuit we had to put him down and it's something I'm still extremely bitter and angry about.

People really do need to learn how to train their dogs AND themselves...

Out of interest, what is wrong with flexileads? My family uses one for our jack russell terrier, Smudge. It's rather useful for her as she's small and does not like any other dogs. She tries to attack them. We normally keep her on a short leash when walking but when going to a park or etc, where we can't really take her off in case of other dogs, we just let it expand so she can go run about, but we can still keep her under control in case a dog comes. She is being trained though to 'be nice' to other dogs. Treats when she doesn't growl, etc.

Sorry you had to go through all of this by the way, thank goodness you have such a good dog! He's a real sweetie to.

Carissa6729 said:

I find it funny how you usually hear stories of the little Chihuahuas/terrier type dogs being the aggressive and uncontrolled dogs while the larger, expected to be more aggressive by stupidity's standards (ie. Pitbulls, dobermans, etc) are extremely well behaved and well mannered.

I've been known to threaten to punt a dog across the street if they didn't remove it from my presence and stick it on a leash, I don't care how small and "harmless" it is. In fairness though, it was a Chihuahua with a bad attitude that came running, baring teeth and snarling at my 1 year old child and the owners told me, "he just wants to say hi".

My other issue is on the flip side of the coin, is when people act stupid to dog owners. You tell them to back away because your dog is not friendly to strangers/other dogs etc., and they tell you, oh I'm sure it's fine let me stick my hand and my face in theirs and we'll see what happens!

We had a housekeeper that was very well informed she was NEVER to come into our house or on our property without us there and permission, period, end of story. We had a Bouvier (who are used as guard dogs/police dogs in Europe like German Shepherds), while lovable, he would protect his home with his last breath. Needless to say, she came on our property uninvited (over a locked wrought iron gate) while I was home alone, sick and sleeping and tried to pet my Beau when he was on guard, stiff demeanor, low growl stance. When she stupidly stuck her hand near his face, he bit her, once not repeatedly but hard enough to cause blood. Long story short, after a lawsuit we had to put him down and it's something I'm still extremely bitter and angry about.

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A lot of people I have met with small dogs neglect training because they see them differently than larger dogs. They think they are just cute, harmless lap dogs. People need to train small dogs too! They are still dogs. They're not moving stuffed animals.

I'm so sorry you had to put your dog down. That person came onto *your* property. I thought in Arizona they'd be more willing to favor the home owner in those situations. Aren't you allowed to shoot home invaders there? Arizona's laws can be kind of stupid regardless, no offense.

Petie is actually a breed of dog called a treeing feist, he's bred to tree squirrels to be shot out of a tree by hunters so he has tons of prey drive, there are many ways to deal with this with using positive reinforcement. Prong collars are really harsh and I just wouldn't have your german shepard around cats.

This is just my opinion.

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i totally understand that they arent the best idea, but i would never use a shock collar etc

But since she is a german shepherd she will drag you and it can damage the cartlige in ther throat if she is gragging you by collar

Also the cats are my pets too so i dont really want to get rid of them lol

I recommend looking up Victoria Stilwell. She's a fantastic dog trainer that uses positive reinforcement. She even uses it with success on more aggressive dog breeds.

I also disagree with the use of shock and pronged collars.

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thanks, i will look her up.
I would never use a shock collar on her, my trainer taught me to use a prong collar right but she is growing out of it anyway

doglaurasmudge said:

People really do need to learn how to train their dogs AND themselves...

Out of interest, what is wrong with flexileads? My family uses one for our jack russell terrier, Smudge. It's rather useful for her as she's small and does not like any other dogs. She tries to attack them. We normally keep her on a short leash when walking but when going to a park or etc, where we can't really take her off in case of other dogs, we just let it expand so she can go run about, but we can still keep her under control in case a dog comes. She is being trained though to 'be nice' to other dogs. Treats when she doesn't growl, etc.

Sorry you had to go through all of this by the way, thank goodness you have such a good dog! He's a real sweetie to.

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First problem being that, since they are so long, if your dog is in a bad situation and you need your dog back with you ASAP, it would take you a while to reel the leash in, you also don't have much control when your dog is so far away rather then being right next to your side. Second problem, many, many, many dogs and owners have been hurt by them since the rope is so small and powerful, if it wraps around your leg and the dog pulls, you're in for a world of hurt (Had this happen to me) Most people also don't know how to use them correctly, they just let the dog run around at the end of the lead doing whatever it wants. They have also been known to break very easily (The mechanism that lets you lock the leash to be short) which is a bad situation because if your dog is running towards something and the leash breaks, you can't grab the rope of the leash to pull it back because it could severely hurt you.

They are also very easily ripped out of the owners hands, in fact when I used to use a flexi a long time ago and I had this happen to me. Since the leash is so long, if the dog sees something it really wants to get to and starts off, they have a long ways to gain speed before hitting the end of the leash, not only hurting the dog, but often ripping the leash from the owner's hands (Since it can't be wrapped around the wrist like normal leashes)