Animal Rights Am I the only one who loves their pet with LOGIC?

pinky said:

I think humane euthanasia is warranted when there's an ailment that's terminal and the quality of life has diminished to the point where the animal is suffering. To kill an animal instead of treating it is cruel.

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This is MY logic ^^ But I don't "love with logic" like the original post suggested! I've only had my fur babies for a few months but I love them like crazy!!

charliespet said:

@pocketmonster Everyone is equally entitled to their own thoughts and opnions about animals, and no, a baby and a guinea pig are not equals. At all. If you think so, than that is totally your right. Remember, humans eat animals. With that said, I don't think this forum is really the proper place to discuss Animal Rights, my thoughts were simply an idea. You would do well to just state your own opnion on a thread rather than try to start a fight, or make jabs at someone.

I love my pets, and yes, I would euthinize a guinea pig before I spent 1,000 dollars on one. It's just logical to me. To others, it may not be. I would, as I said, do what I could do for my pets to try and hlep them recover, such as vet visits, shots, etc. So I will take your post as you do not agree. You would spend your last dime to protect the life of your cavy. Awesome. Standing Ovation. You are the Queen of Compassion.

I am a positve person, I love my animals, but I believe in common sense. If a Cavy is suffering, I choose to put them down. That's my opnion, and my right to see it how I see it, its not wrong because its different than yours. Good day, and I wish you the best of luck.

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Okay, obviously no changing your mind here. So if something happens to your pigs and they require something costly, can you at least look into shelters or someone who would take them off your hands and provide the necessary vet care? It shouldn't be that strenuous to do on your part.

This is the whole point of responsibility. An animal is a responsibility. ALL prospective pet owners should understand that BEFORE they adopt an animal. When you acquire said animal, you are the caretaker and its life is entirely in your hands. Therefore, it is logically your responsibilty to provide that animal with the care it needs- this includes medical care.

I have seen way too many examples in dog rescue of people who could not afford to or simply refused to pay for vet treatment for their pet. After I spent $5000 nursing a litter of seven shelter puppies and their mother back to health because they all contracted what I can only assume was canine influenza that turned into pneumonia (parvo, distemper, and kennel cough were ruled out), I became a big advocate for spending whatever it takes to save any animal of any species that I have accepted responsibility for. If you want an animal in your life, vet bills are part of the commitment. It's as simple as that.

unaspirateur said:

I think it would depend on the cost. If they had a cold and it was a ten dollar antibiotic? ok. If it was something expensive or time consuming, id be ok with putting it down. IE back when i had a cat, she was getting older, but she wasnt "öld" and had diabetes along with kidney stones. Instead of paying for the insulin that we would have to make sure to be home twice a day to administer, we had her put down. Did i cry when we put my cat down? yes. Did i regret the decision? No. I love my pets, but they are pets.

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My sweet old dog Scout was diagnosed as diabetic when she was 7. The vet told us most pets don't survive beyond a year with that diagnosis because insulin is expensive, as is the follow up care, and keeping track of blood sugar levels can be difficult and time-consuming. She lived to 10 1/2. She wasn't a burden and the value of her life and the happiness she brought to us was worth so much more than a vial of insulin every couple weeks. I can't imagine the insensitivity it would require to have diminished her worth by dismissing her as a "pet" and determining that treatment of a fairly manageable condition wasn't worth making a few sacrifices to prolong an otherwise healthy life and "trade up" for something else.

I can understand and agree with the notion of refusing to prolong an animal's pain and suffering, but what you and the OP are referencing is something entirely different and cold. Putting a dollar sign on an animal's head - an animal you CHOOSE to have in your life - requires an indifference and frank unkindness that I can't quite get my head around.

miss_melmel said:

what i just read was like a BIG slap in the face.
I would spend my last sent and let myself go hungry then let anything happen to my animals.
they are my babies not just something you can dispose of when you have had enough of them or things get to hard.

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I would rather do the same thing.

Another thought, how many households have televisions, computers, etc? I'd sell all the material junk in our home before I let my pet die. You can always buy another TV, but you can't replace a lost life.

@charliespet Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was actually questioning your definition of logic. There are times when you have to make a decision when it is in the best interest of the being you have in your care, but finances doesn't come into the decision for me. They are not just "pets", or financial burdens, or lower down the worth ladder because they are classed as rodents. I haven't eaten an animal in over 17 years, I haven't deliberately consumed an animal product in 15 years, I don't wear leather or wool, I don't swat mosquitoes or squash spiders or spray flies, or consume colouring 120. I let things be. I rescue drowning bugs from puddles. Non-human animals that come into my life under my care get care, be that day to day care of food and water and attention, or medical care. As expensive as it is. There is logic in everything we do, but there are different forms. I might not spend a lot of money on clothes, or shoes, or a car, or materialistic things, or things for myself, but I will certainly spend thousands of dollars on another living being that needs help. That is logical to me. Humans shouldn't own other living, sentient beings, they should just provide responsible -- and complete, this is key -- care for them.

@jowasaurus just for the sake of your curitosity I will answer that question LOL. Certain breeds of rabbits, just like cavies, can't be crossed. Or a back to back pregnancy can cause issues.Rabbits often reject babies and leave them to die if they are deformed or the mother just doesn't want them. Sometimes, a few can be saved by hand raising. In the case of deformity, the babies have to be put down. And yes, all of the rabbits, except the pets were slaughterd, and their meat was sold. The babies were mistakes because my dad did not intentionally breed them in their season. With 6 curious children, sometimes the kids would open the cages to let the rabbits "play," and an unwanted pregnancy would result. If the mother accepted the newborns, everything was fine, except my dad would invent new ways to keep us away from the meat rabbits.

MissJean said:

I would rather do the same thing.

Another thought, how many households have televisions, computers, etc? I'd sell all the material junk in our home before I let my pet die. You can always buy another TV, but you can't replace a lost life.

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I would also do the same. my pets mean everything to me. i would never put an animal down just coz i didnt want to pay the money for its health,. i know where i live there are places that will help you with loans for such thing as animal sickness with no interest.

i think this was a bit stiring, i mean yes this person is intitled to there opinion but why do it on a form where it is dedicated to giving these animals the best life possible?

@charliespet - I think people here understand that sometimes finances are tight and medical care for your pet can be costly. I think most people here would also do anything they could to come up with the money, if it meant the animal would become healthy again.

If you get to a point where the medical is too costly, consider rehoming your pet rather than having them euthanized. Someone who has the means to make sure the animal gets the medical care it needs would be the more humane option if the animal has any fighting chance at survival.

Of course, if quality of life comes into play and the risks/poor quality of life, outweigh the medical options then euthanasia is a humane option.

I think where people are having a problem with what you are saying is that it sounds like you have a dollar amount in mind that is your monetary ceiling for treatment and if medical care were to exceed that, then you would opt for euthanization.

Shammy, the first pig I ever owned, developed a tumor on the side of his face. He didn't seem too bothered by it, he was eating/drinking normally, very active, normal pig. His quality of life was not being affected by the tumor but it was a relatively large tumor (about the size of a golf ball)which put weight on the side of his face and pulled his eye socket down. Shammy was a senior pig at the time (5 yrs) but was still full of life so he was not letting the tumor get in his way.

So after talking to the vet about options, knowing that his quality of life was still good, I opted to go ahead with the surgery to remove the tumor. It was expensive, for sure, about $500 but to me, it was worth it so he could continue his life not weighed down by the tumor. Incidentally, it was determined to be a simply a lipoma (fatty tumor and benign).

So in any situation like this, you have to weigh the options. If quality of life will be improved by treatment, then as a responsible pet owner, you would need to make sure that it happened. If it's too expensive for you to possibly consider, then rehoming the animal to someone who is able to provide the appropriate care.

Euthanasia is not an option for a healthy animal that simply has become to financially burdensome. It also is not your only option if medical treatment is too expensive.

Now, when you said, "not with expensive chemicals and syringes", I cringe to think about what you would consider a "humane" alternative.

I am no longer responding or going to read any further comments. This thread is not constructive to me, or anyone else who reads the assumptions, the judgements and the bashing. Really ppl. If you are that bored, find another hot topic because I am trying to close this one. Thank you for your opnions, your assumptions, and most of all, your obvious love for your animals. I'm sorry if most of you could not understand the origanal post, but I do not aplologize for my opnions, however misinterpreted. SMH.

Continuing (ran out of editing time) More recently, my pig Louie developed a sudden neurological issue and was having seizures. This was not a prolonged issue. He was fine the night before, in the morning, he was seizing. The vet saw him that same day. After discussing prognosis with the vet, that treatment was available but would likely have only a 10-15% chance of improving his condition, we discussed euthanasia as an option.

He was in really bad shape. He couldn't support his own weight and could not even stand up. He was having periodic tremors and full body seizures. In this case, his quality of life was very low and I did not want to prolong his suffering if treatment was unlikely to improve his quality of life so I decided to go ahead with the euthanasia.

In cases like this, where quality of life is adversely affected by medical conditions and treatment isn't likely to improve it, then euthanasia is a responsible and humane option. But not once, did I consider the financial aspect as part of my decision. It was a hard decision to make but the monetary expense of treatment never entered my mind . I just wanted to do something that would stop his suffering. His comfort was all I was thinking about.

charliespet said:

I am no longer responding or going to read any further comments. This thread is not constructive to me, or anyone else who reads the assumptions, the judgements and the bashing. Really ppl. If you are that bored, find another hot topic because I am trying to close this one. Thank you for your opnions, your assumptions, and most of all, your obvious love for your animals. I'm sorry if most of you could not understand the origanal post, but I do not aplologize for my opnions, however misinterpreted. SMH.

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Why would you start a thread that gets many people, myself included, emotionally distraught and then turn away and refuse to discuss it more? You brought this thread here and the "bashing" (which, aside from a bit of attitude on my behalf, have actually been very mature and thought out). No one is being immature about it. They are all spending a long time to type out their testimonials of what they did to save their piggies.
You came in here with an alternate viewpoint that got many people's feathers ruffled. Why wouldn't you be prepared to deal with the response?

Your original post started with-

charliespet said:

I just wanted to see others opinions on my statement:

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What did you logically think was going to happen on a pro-adoption, anti-breeding, cavy-loving freaks website?
If you would have just read past closed threads that people have signed up and still as Newbies began talking about breeding and how many pigs they've gone through, you would have had your answer.

I do appreciate you explaining further your reasons and expanding on what you would actually do for your pets, but once the water starts boiling here, it can be difficult to stop. Your original post and more recent ones have been a little conflicting in the way that in the first one, you made it sound like you wouldn't do ANYTHING for them. As others have stated, of course financial concerns play into the decisions for costly procedures but I believe it isn't very often that guinea pigs need that kind of thing done unless their illnesses have progressed and gone unchecked. It is good to hear that you ARE in fact willing to discuss it with your vet and would give your g-pigs medicine if they got sick, as long as it wasn't $1000 [which is a pretty high number].

There's hundreds of members online every day. Most of them are going to have an opinion on the subject and the regular posters will always reply to topics like this--you can almost count on it. You said it yourself that you posted this topic in the kitchen for a reason. Others are giving their opinions maybe in the hopes of trying to persuade you or have you further explain your original post, which you have done much of in your replies. The information about the rabbit breeding was actually quite interesting and thank you for the information. [We had 2 male rabbits when I was younger, so we never really researched breeding topics] People tend to react to the term "put down" negatively.



[And "freaks" is, by all means, a term of endearment as I am one myself]

When my Truffles was diagnosed with osteodystrophy, I knew it was a death sentence, but did I have her euthanized? No. We kept her on pain meds and rearranged living arrangements so she only shared a cage with my senior guinea pig who really loved her. Little by little, she lost function of her back legs and it progressed throughout her body. We kept her on Metacam to keep her pain free and llving on fleece and then Carefresh since she didn't get around well and we needed to keep her clean. It got to the point where we had to syringe feed her and wipe her down and I did that for about 3 weeks, multiple times a day. As long as she was hungry and enthusiastic, I kept it up. Finally, the day came when she didn't want to eat and the only thing that she was moving was her head. I knew that she was telling me it was too much for her. I took her to the vet to have her humanely euthanized. It was heartbreaking but I knew it was time. That's what I referring to when I referred to the quality of life. I wasn't referring to a URI or UTI or anything that a vet can treat or cure. I meant something that they can't recover from, even with medical intervention and they've declined to the point that they are suffering.

charliespet said:

I am no longer responding or going to read any further comments. This thread is not constructive to me, or anyone else who reads the assumptions, the judgements and the bashing. Really ppl. If you are that bored, find another hot topic because I am trying to close this one. Thank you for your opnions, your assumptions, and most of all, your obvious love for your animals. I'm sorry if most of you could not understand the origanal post, but I do not aplologize for my opnions, however misinterpreted. SMH.

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You came here asking for opinions. Now you're mad because people shared what you asked for?

No, most people here don't agree with your perspective that caring for an animal only until it's inconvenient to you is okay. Animals are a lifetime commitment- if you can't take that commitment, rehome your animal.

Scintie said:

Thats exactly what they mean by loving with selfishness. My dad towards the end of his life had 2 strokes and became completely reliant on family for everything. He was paralyzed on one side and couldn't even get to the bathroom. He was also diabetic and had to take insulin. Was he alot of work? Yes. But we did it out of LOVE. My mom who had her own place and a new lover took him in and cared for him because she loved him as family still. Yes that's a human, but it's no different. Putting a Max price on a human or animals care is WRONG.

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i wish euthenasia was legal for humans, because i have told my family numerous times that if i ever got to that point, i would not want to live. the burden, the cost, the inability to be my own person. so its not just with animals that i have this belief, if that makes you feel better?

@jowasaurus Thanks. That was a really good response, and yes, I can see how my post was def mis interprated. I have had pigs for 9 years, and loved every single one. I'm 25 now, and each year learning more about guinea pigs and the way a lot of folks simply just do not care and neglet the animals, leaving them in tiny cages and not even noticing if they have respitory illnesses than can quickly get ugly if not seen by a vet. I loved our rabbits, and my dad would never let me watch them die. It's such a fine line with farm and meat animals and domistic animals. The term "put down," is really the harsh reality of a lot of animals. I suspect some ppl were picturing some random person out in their yard with a poor pig and a hammer in their hand...that would freak anyone out. I could never, never, put an animal down like that. I have a hard time even with the typical farm ways...decapitation, tazer or bullet. I was once asked to "put down" a cow with a handgun. Couldn't do it, even tho I knew it was instant. (meat cow) But a pet, no WAY. Putting a very sick, un curable animal to sleep with vet assitance is the only option I would ever consider.

@pocketmonster I am sorry this post was mis interapted. I did not intend to give anyone the idea that I would leave a helpless pig to suffer, I think I may have really mis worded what I meant, at times I can be a very blunt person, and not explain myself adequatley. I did read the testimonials, and I see a lot of ppl who are loving, giving pet owners, just as I am. I respond to those who seem to have a real story, a real concern, who are not putting words in my mouth or bashing. I will respond privately to those ppl. A true concerned person always double checks before they jump on the bashing band wagon.

charliespet said:

Putting a very sick, un curable animal to sleep with vet assitance is the only option I would ever consider.

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My question to you, then, is, what if it's not "very sick" but instead requires regular vet visits and treatment that gets very costly but is a treatable condition, like malocclusion in some cases?

I have a pig who, about every 6 or so months, needs to be sedated so that he can have his teeth ground down to a level where he can eat comfortably. It's not a fatal condition by itself, though it would be if I didn't opt to have the procedure (to the tune of around $400 each time) done. He's otherwise a happy, healthy, well-adjusted pig. If it's just a "50 dollar animal" as you so eloquently pointed out in your post on breeding, is he worth that expense so that he can have a happy and otherwise healthy life?

I would defeinatly go to the vet, I would always do what is in my power ensure the longest life possible, with whatever resources I had. For instance, it's going to cost me about 500 dollars to move my piggies around, because my husband is going to Korea, and then we are all moving to Italy. They are family, so they go too, even if it means I have to sell my dining set and eat on the floor for a while in Italy.