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People protesting my schools activities

LithiumRiot

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What happened to separation of church and state?

Before anyone laughs at that, I'm serious. So, it's bad for someone to talk about their faith (regardless of what that faith is) in a state environment, but it's to be celebrated that a religious text should be changed & mocked?

How does it teach tolerance to mock people's religious faith, regardless whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, or they believe the moon is made from cheese? If memory serves, Hitler started slowly and quietly gaining power by mocking the Jews through media outlets and blaming them for the people's problems in life. We talk a lot on this site about the value of an animal's life, what is a human life worth to you? What was it worth to Hitler?

You can disagree with people without mocking them and tearing them down. This play mocks someone's faith. Think how you feel when people spit on the rights of animals. Can you put yourself in other people's shoes? The idea that it is okay to laugh at people of other faiths and distort their beliefs is being taught to children. Is this school paid for by taxpayer money? If my child was going there, I would probably pull her out.

To me, it is not so much about the homosexual part of it (that's a whole other subject that needs more time), it is that the religious text is being changed. And that "religion" is being shared at school. Again, what happened to separation of church and state?

I am going to come back to this thread when I have more time, but my short statement - I am offended.

Oo! I wish I had more time right now. I have lots to say on this matter.


It's fine that you feel this way. I'm honestly glad that there are opinions going both ways on this. It makes for interesting conversation

But to say you'd pull a child out of a school that puts on a play you dont agree with? There are tons of things in the world you may not agree with. I dunno, but if it were me, I'd let the child make the choice for themselves. No one would be forcing the child to be in the play, tech the play, or even go to it. Everything about it is optional. This school is a lot better than any other school I have attended. There is little to no bullying, there is acceptance of all things, and when things are heated such as a topic like this, we have a group discussion about it, where students get just as much say if not more say than the adults. It's really a fantastic school, please dont judge it based on one play
 

MizzyMiz

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Our freedom of speech guarantees that right. I really think a lot of offensive material is out there to test that right. There's a lot out there that offends me, too, but I'm grateful that I live in a country where my freedom is protected. I do think that religion is under attack in this country, though.

I agree. I'm Mormon, but I'm only 15, and it's hard at school sometimes cause people question me on a lot of things, and I always stand out among my friends cause I don't curse or wear inappropriate cloths, and there's been quite a few times I've been pressured to say or do things I can't. My friend tells me all the time, "I don't think your stupid, I just think your mislead."

People are having to much fun attacking other religions. Youtube is ridden with terrible things about my faith. People are abusing their freedom of speech sometimes, but I'm glad I have mine to defend my self. :)
 

bguardguy

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What happened to separation of church and state?

Before anyone laughs at that, I'm serious. So, it's bad for someone to talk about their faith (regardless of what that faith is) in a state environment, but it's to be celebrated that a religious text should be changed & mocked?

How does it teach tolerance to mock people's religious faith, regardless whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, or they believe the moon is made from cheese? If memory serves, Hitler started slowly and quietly gaining power by mocking the Jews through media outlets and blaming them for the people's problems in life. We talk a lot on this site about the value of an animal's life, what is a human life worth to you? What was it worth to Hitler?

You can disagree with people without mocking them and tearing them down. This play mocks someone's faith. Think how you feel when people spit on the rights of animals. Can you put yourself in other people's shoes? The idea that it is okay to laugh at people of other faiths and distort their beliefs is being taught to children. Is this school paid for by taxpayer money? If my child was going there, I would probably pull her out.

To me, it is not so much about the homosexual part of it (that's a whole other subject that needs more time), it is that the religious text is being changed. And that "religion" is being shared at school. Again, what happened to separation of church and state?

I am going to come back to this thread when I have more time, but my short statement - I am offended.

Oo! I wish I had more time right now. I have lots to say on this matter.


I am also wondering the same thing about what happened to separation of church and state, however I feel we may have two differing opinions of what this entails. It is not bad for someone to talk about their faith in a state environment, it is bad however to try to enact laws and rules that force these opinions on others. Don't get me wrong, in my opinion it is sometimes taboo or frowned upon to talk about religion in state environments just as it is other places as well. I am glad that this is so. I have had many differing opinions than fellow coworkers, and because of that I leave my personal preference on religion and politics at the door and do not bring it to work, however when directly questioned I will not refuse to answer. It has made for some very uncomfortable workplaces no matter how I tried to approach the subject matter.

No where was it mentioned that a changing of a religious text is to be celebrated, however I can also understand this interpretation through the subject matter of the play. However, in my opinion art is art. It is meant to be an outlet to express opinions and tackle those harder to talk about topics such as religion, homosexuality, etc. The story line its self is not so much about a atheist viewpoint or the retelling of those Christian stories in a rude or condemning manner, but instead about some larger philosophical topics. The main point of the play is to make you think about this topics. Yes, it does use the stories of the bible as a form of allegory, however that is for maybe half of the play. While this may be viewed as mocking or offensive to others this play is meant as a form of art and not to be taken personal. It represents a perfectly valid mindset of a large group of people in our country.

I agree that you can in fact disagree with others without mocking them or tearing them down, however I find nothing wrong with this play personally after doing some research on it. It tells the story from a homosexual viewpoint throughout the ages, through the Christian mindset of creationism all the way to modern day. It is not directly insulting a Christian mindset, but more of saying what if "this" were the story. As for this play or anything else distorting someone'e belief I find this a strange thought process. In my opinion for one to have stronger faith and belief, one
should be able to question their own beliefs and through that process further strengthen their faith.

As I said before we could possibly have two different definitions of church and state separate. Religion or lack thereof is a major cultural and societal factor and has influenced many events in not only our history, but the entire worlds history. By having the mindset that we should not "share" religion in the school, we are leaving out a major portion of many different classes. This play in no way forces someone to learn about religion. When in a play, you are given a choice to participate, you are given the choice to attend, and you are given the choice to protest it. However, I feel that the problem with the separation of church and state is when someone is forced to participate in actions that in no way correlate with your religion or lack thereof.



I think the main thing though, is that this play is getting blasted and protested for promoting and or featuring homosexuality, not necessarily for mocking a certain religion. I think that it is crazy that in this day and age people pick and choose homosexuality over so many other sins to protest or to bash. There are far more serious things happening in the world that need to be addressed. So what a play is saying that it is okay to be gay. It is not saying you must be gay. Instead it is addressing the issue that homosexuals should have the same rights and not feel threatened to live their lives as how they see fit.
 
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Carissa6729

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In my personal (albeit limited) opinion of the organized faiths and religious aspect, the bible is open to interpretation. You are to take the bible, read it, apply it to yourself and your beliefs (or your religions beliefs) and that develops your faith. I see people interpreting their religious views to also include God as a woman or as a black man/woman. If that is how people choose to worship and believe in their faiths, then I see nothing wrong with it. Other religions worship other gods, deities, animals, different religious books, etc. and that is their beliefs and their right to do so. What I guess I don't get is how the play's writer is not allowed to choose their own way of interpreting the bible stories and using their religious beliefs to create a work of art while many established religions take the same bible, stories, people involved, etc. and interpret it for their own belief system and that is generally recognized as being okay (outside of extremist situations of course like Hitler).

If other's choose to partake and enjoy this play, then that is also their right, just like people are allowed to go to religious plays or see movies based on religious matter. If you don't agree, don't watch or see it. If it was required, then that would be another subject. But to me, exposing my children to as many beliefs an opinions is important to me. Full disclosure, I don't participate in an organized religion and have my own belief system based mostly on nature, science (I have an analytic logical mind where blind faith doesn't fit in), and basically a following of the golden rule and I teach my kids the same but while exposing them to other's beliefs. They will be allowed to choose whenever and whatever age they like to follow any religion they see fit that they align themselves with and none of they so choose not to. More important to me and my family is that they grow up to be people who respect themselves, others and their surroundings and be good people, not if they can quote a verse from the bible or attend church weekly but if they so choose to pick that path, I would support them 100% as well.

ETA: Hope that made sense...can't function properly with migraine lol.
 

bguardguy

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In my personal (albeit limited) opinion of the organized faiths and religious aspect, the bible is open to interpretation. You are to take the bible, read it, apply it to yourself and your beliefs (or your religions beliefs) and that develops your faith. I see people interpreting their religious views to also include God as a woman or as a black man/woman. If that is how people choose to worship and believe in their faiths, then I see nothing wrong with it. Other religions worship other gods, deities, animals, different religious books, etc. and that is their beliefs and their right to do so. What I guess I don't get is how the play's writer is not allowed to choose their own way of interpreting the bible stories and using their religious beliefs to create a work of art while many established religions take the same bible, stories, people involved, etc. and interpret it for their own belief system and that is generally recognized as being okay (outside of extremist situations of course like Hitler).

If other's choose to partake and enjoy this play, then that is also their right, just like people are allowed to go to religious plays or see movies based on religious matter. If you don't agree, don't watch or see it. If it was required, then that would be another subject. But to me, exposing my children to as many beliefs an opinions is important to me. Full disclosure, I don't participate in an organized religion and have my own belief system based mostly on nature, science (I have an analytic logical mind where blind faith doesn't fit in), and basically a following of the golden rule and I teach my kids the same but while exposing them to other's beliefs. They will be allowed to choose whenever and whatever age they like to follow any religion they see fit that they align themselves with and none of they so choose not to. More important to me and my family is that they grow up to be people who respect themselves, others and their surroundings and be good people, not if they can quote a verse from the bible or attend church weekly but if they so choose to pick that path, I would support them 100% as well.

ETA: Hope that made sense...can't function properly with migraine lol.

I followed your thought path, so I think you are okay. BTW I miss you!
 

oldnewie

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Im a Christian & quite frankly Im tired of our faith & the Bible being mocked. It hurts shen Christianity & the Bible are twisted to suit (some Christians do it too). It hurts even more when Jesus is mocked & used as a swear word, but we were warned of such things. It is unacceptable to react with hatred & violence. Be aware that thete are plenty of people who will use situations to inflame others for their own 'righteous cause' & even pleasure. I think the promotion of homosexuality in a Biblical movie/play etc is offensive. - if it did the same about Islam there will already be deaths. If you are afraid of what might happen in those protests, make sure there is a police/security presence - Im sure there would be,ok? - and dont get involved. Respect is a boundary all too often trampled on, and I doubt there is respect either way (for homosexuals or anyone else) in this play.
 

bguardguy

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Im a Christian & quite frankly Im tired of our faith & the Bible being mocked. It hurts shen Christianity & the Bible are twisted to suit (some Christians do it too). It hurts even more when Jesus is mocked & used as a swear word, but we were warned of such things. It is unacceptable to react with hatred & violence. Be aware that thete are plenty of people who will use situations to inflame others for their own 'righteous cause' & even pleasure. I think the promotion of homosexuality in a Biblical movie/play etc is offensive. - if it did the same about Islam there will already be deaths. If you are afraid of what might happen in those protests, make sure there is a police/security presence - Im sure there would be,ok? - and dont get involved. Respect is a boundary all too often trampled on, and I doubt there is respect either way (for homosexuals or anyone else) in this play.


I understand where you are coming from, but it is not just your religion and faith and the bible being mocked, it is others lifestyles as well, whether that be religious or not. I agree it is unacceptable to react with hatred and violence and it bothers me that it so often comes down to this from all parties associated. I do see how the promotion of homosexualtiy in a Biblical play can be offensive, however that is not what this play is. It is not a Biblical play. It mentions a few stories from the Bible, but the central point of the play is not religious in nature from what I have read on it. It is more philosophical in nature if anything.
 

LithiumRiot

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I just want to say: Thanks to everyone who commented on this, regardless of your opinion on the subject. I think it has been a really good discussion and maybe it will continue, I dont know. But. Thank you!
 

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No problem! I love a good discussion! Especially when people don't take it personally and it can remain a discussion and not a fight! Very fun indeed!
 

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What my question is...with ALL of the different plays that a school could choose to do, why did the teacher choose this one? It sounds like the teacher has an agenda that they wish to push. I think certain things should be left for AFTER graduation from high school when children are less impressionable. And YES...high school students are still CHILDREN. A play depicting anything sexual in nature should not be allowed in school (homosexual, heterosexual, or ANYTHING)...at least in my opinion. It would be different if this were a college.

Also, separation of church and state was to keep the state out of church as much as it was to keep the church out of state. If this is a public school, then they should not be mocking any religious story, and I can completely understand the protests.
 

LithiumRiot

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What my question is...with ALL of the different plays that a school could choose to do, why did the teacher choose this one? It sounds like the teacher has an agenda that they wish to push. I think certain things should be left for AFTER graduation from high school when children are less impressionable. And YES...high school students are still CHILDREN. A play depicting anything sexual in nature should not be allowed in school (homosexual, heterosexual, or ANYTHING)...at least in my opinion. It would be different if this were a college.

Also, separation of church and state was to keep the state out of church as much as it was to keep the church out of state. If this is a public school, then they should not be mocking any religious story, and I can completely understand the protests.

Students have a huge part in picking out plays, It's a performing arts school and we make a decisions as a community. Also, it's a heavily, heavily edited script. The more raunchy parts and all nudity has been edited out.

The protesting is fine, until they threaten us with violence. there is a line.
 

asnnbrg

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What my question is...with ALL of the different plays that a school could choose to do, why did the teacher choose this one? It sounds like the teacher has an agenda that they wish to push. I think certain things should be left for AFTER graduation from high school when children are less impressionable. And YES...high school students are still CHILDREN. A play depicting anything sexual in nature should not be allowed in school (homosexual, heterosexual, or ANYTHING)...at least in my opinion. It would be different if this were a college.

Sexuality is a very basic fact of life, though. Should plays depicting a husband/wife be banned? If not, why not? Because those are depicting a standard heterosexual relationship and are therefore depicting sexuality, there is no difference between that depiction and a depiction of a same sex couple in a domestic partnership, civil union or marriage. If a particular depiction of a couple would not be offensive if it were a straight couple, then it should not be any more inappropriate as a straight couple. I'd be highly doubtful there is any actual sexual content or nudity in this particular play -- it's a high school play, after all.
 

LifeAsItMayBe

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What is the play actually about? I know you said it has Adam & Steve etc., but what is the basic story line? Is it a variation on creation from the Bible or does it focus on the relationships? And how did they procreate and the world go on if everybody was gay? I'm afraid to just Google it myself based on the fact you say your version is heavily edited...

Also, what is LGBTQIA+? I've only heard the first four or five letters used together before.
 

Carissa6729

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Personally I see this as just as controversial as a Shakesphere play being read or done for high school theatre yet that is done all across the country every year in public and private schools.
 

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I don't know about anyone else, but I find it really odd that someone would randomly pose that question on Yahoo. I have a strong suspicion that it's a planted question to try and incite people. A devout Catholic wouldn't pose that question although they might organize some sort of peaceful protest. I think someone associated with the production or a student might have planted that question to draw attention to the play. It reminds me of a high school project we had to do for our sociology class. We had to try and create a situation that dealt with a current social issue. I'll bet that's what this is.
 

Amy262

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Students have a huge part in picking out plays, It's a performing arts school and we make a decisions as a community. Also, it's a heavily, heavily edited script. The more raunchy parts and all nudity has been edited out.

The protesting is fine, until they threaten us with violence. there is a line.

Absolutely...threatening with violence is definitely NOT ok.

Sexuality is a very basic fact of life, though. Should plays depicting a husband/wife be banned? If not, why not? Because those are depicting a standard heterosexual relationship and are therefore depicting sexuality, there is no difference between that depiction and a depiction of a same sex couple in a domestic partnership, civil union or marriage. If a particular depiction of a couple would not be offensive if it were a straight couple, then it should not be any more inappropriate as a straight couple. I'd be highly doubtful there is any actual sexual content or nudity in this particular play -- it's a high school play, after all.

The whole point of the play sounds like it meant to evoke a reaction out of people...plain and simple. It is meant to either bring a strong reaction of "yes...yay for you!!", or "I can't believe they have the gall to put on such a controversial play." Outside of the violence, I think they are getting the reaction they expected and/or wanted. You can't tell me that a high school expected to put on a play like this and NOT get a strong reaction. As far as plays depicting husbands and wives...you can have a play depicting a husband and wife without it being sexually suggestive. This play is obviously sexually suggestive, even with being heavy scripted. This is what I would have a problem with, as a parent.
 

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What is the play actually about? I know you said it has Adam & Steve etc., but what is the basic story line? Is it a variation on creation from the Bible or does it focus on the relationships? And how did they procreate and the world go on if everybody was gay? I'm afraid to just Google it myself based on the fact you say your version is heavily edited...

Also, what is LGBTQIA+? I've only heard the first four or five letters used together before.

Queer, intersex and allies. The first are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transexual. Although I guess the a could also be asexual.
 

asnnbrg

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Absolutely...threatening with violence is definitely NOT ok.



The whole point of the play sounds like it meant to evoke a reaction out of people...plain and simple. It is meant to either bring a strong reaction of "yes...yay for you!!", or "I can't believe they have the gall to put on such a controversial play." Outside of the violence, I think they are getting the reaction they expected and/or wanted. You can't tell me that a high school expected to put on a play like this and NOT get a strong reaction. As far as plays depicting husbands and wives...you can have a play depicting a husband and wife without it being sexually suggestive. This play is obviously sexually suggestive, even with being heavy scripted. This is what I would have a problem with, as a parent.

But whose fault is the reaction? I don't like the idea of the Bible being used like this -- don't get me wrong. Family Guy annoys the daylights out of me for that very reason. But at the same time, so they're trying to get a reaction -- so what? Does that mean conservative Christians *have to react? No. In fact, usually when my kids are being the absolute worst behaved and are seemingly begging for a bad reaction, I get the best responses when I either don't give in and react at all or I react positively. The fact that people are getting all hysterical over it is just, meh. I see it as childish. So people are making fun of my beliefs, so what? It doesn't really affect me in the least or change what I believe (and that's if that's what they're doing. I don't know anything about the play, so this is all conjecture).

As for the sexually suggestive part, I guess I don't know about that, either. As someone else said, Shakespeare is extremely sexual, and yet how many high schools put that on every year? Even some of the most religious, conservative schools in the country study Shakespeare, and yet his work is as bawdy as it gets.

And then there's the little fact of the Bible itself being sexual (AND violent), and I know I definitely had to study it in school (private schools, before anyone faints).
 

Carissa6729

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As for the sexually suggestive part, I guess I don't know about that, either. As someone else said, Shakespeare is extremely sexual, and yet how many high schools put that on every year? Even some of the most religious, conservative schools in the country study Shakespeare, and yet his work is as bawdy as it gets.

And then there's the little fact of the Bible itself being sexual (AND violent), and I know I definitely had to study it in school (private schools, before anyone faints).

Woo hoo that was me! Was wondering if anybody caught that lol. Beyond being just sexual though, don't forget you have suicide, drugs, murder, treason, adultery, and all sorts of other goodies along the way.

Lol at the sarcasm. See, I DO have a sense of humor!
 

LithiumRiot

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Queer, intersex and allies. The first are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transexual. Although I guess the a could also be asexual.

Transgender, not transexual :p
This also covers anyone under the spectrum, even the ones that dont have letters. Which is why the + is there.
 
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