Veg*n Eating guinea pigs - an insight into another culture

Yuk! I know different cultures have different views on what is edible livestock vs pet vs sacred animal, but YUK!

Kind of makes vegetarianism seem like an option after all. After reading that article I think I'll ask the next time I'm having chicken or steak, "Who's pet am I eating today?"

I think it's funny that people will get offended at the idea of eating a guinea pig or a cat or a dog, but think nothing of eating a chicken, cow, or pig. How do they draw the line between animals that are okay to eat and animals that should only be pets? I'm glad to be a vegetarian so I don't have to wrestle with those decisions ... I don't know how I'd rationalize it.

It's the culture we're brought up in. I'm not vegetarian, I just love my meat (sorry). I don't enjoy the texture of most vegetables, so that's left me with a lot of meat eating. Anyway, that's not the point. So many of our beliefs are a product of our upbringing and culture.

How do I rationalise eating a chicken, cow or pig, but not a dog, cat or guinea pig? Because I've been brought up to believe that the first group are okay but the others are not. I don't necessarily think it's wrong to eat meat from the second group, I just don't think I would want to personally.

Honestly, it's not really something I think about. Humans are designed to consume meat as part of their diet. If you choose not to, good on you, I don't have a problem with that. I just know I couldn't make that decision, because I enjoy my meat too much and I'm comfortable with that.

Slavery and the subordination of women used to be part of our culture and upbringing, too. Thinking about those issues and the tremendous advances that have been made gives me hope that one day the animal rights movement will come that far and the question about which animals are okay to eat will be moot.

Okay, just let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. Say your vision comes true, and humans all stop eating meat. Do we then begin to force other omnivorous animals to not eat meat either? Obviously you believe meat eating is wrong, but why is it wrong for humans and not wrong for other animals?

It's not like meat eating is some barbarous practice invented by humans purely for cruelty, such as hunting for sport, nor do I think it's really comparable to slavery. It's a dietary requirement, which some people choose to get around.

Frankly, I'm not sure I really appreciate my choice to eat meat compared to slavery and subordination of women. Isn't that a little extreme?

I'm with you Krysanthemum and agree 100% with all your statements above.

It's not like meat eating is some barbarous practice invented by humans purely for cruelty, such as hunting for sport, nor do I think it's really comparable to slavery. It's a dietary requirement, which some people choose to get around.

Frankly, I'm not sure I really appreciate my choice to eat meat compared to slavery and subordination of women. Isn't that a little extreme?

I don't think it's extreme enough. Have you actually WATCHED any of the videos that have been posted over time? Do you read any of the content from any of the sites about factory farming? The practices are barbaric and extremely inhumane and full of torture and horrible lives and living conditions and pain, suffering and finally murder. Ignorance is bliss.

In terms of nutritional content and cost- there is a biology formula that can be used that includes cost in terms of human labor and the calories that it takes to do that work, the resources needed for processing, the land and nutrients used to make the food, it does this in terms of energy and resources used up. The equation itself is almost a page long, and I was forced to do this calculation numerous times by a very good ecology teacher who himself grew up around cows, and could tell you every type there is, but wanted us to be well informed. Meat as a food has the lowest payoff for the most work of almost any food with the exception of maybe candy and other highly processed foods. We could accomplish more in terms of human nutrition if we took the livestock farms and grew crops.

CavySpirit said:

It's not like meat eating is some barbarous practice invented by humans purely for cruelty, such as hunting for sport, nor do I think it's really comparable to slavery. It's a dietary requirement, which some people choose to get around.

Frankly, I'm not sure I really appreciate my choice to eat meat compared to slavery and subordination of women. Isn't that a little extreme?
I don't think it's extreme enough. Have you actually WATCHED any of the videos that have been posted over time? Do you read any of the content from any of the sites about factory farming? The practices are barbaric and extremely inhumane and full of torture and horrible lives and living conditions and pain, suffering and finally murder. Ignorance is bliss.

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CavySpirit is right, if you took one look at Meet you Meat by Peta you'd see what she means. Now I don't think I'd say it's as bad as slavery but that just might be because I'm part of that minorty but it's darn close! I feel that meat indistry is revolting and make's me sick to even think how a person could stoop so low as to work in those place's but I guess that's just my navie mind.

Look, before I begin, I want to make the point that I've intentionally stayed away from the vegetarian section of this forum because I knew I would disagree with a lot of it. I didn't want to start a fight about meat eating.

However, now that you brought it up ...

CavySpirit said:

I don't think it's extreme enough. Have you actually WATCHED any of the videos that have been posted over time? Do you read any of the content from any of the sites about factory farming? The practices are barbaric and extremely inhumane and full of torture and horrible lives and living conditions and pain, suffering and finally murder.

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So let me get this straight. Eating meat is wrong because of the barbaric modern methods of keeping animals and slaughtering them. So when hunter gather societies hunted with spears and arrows, it was less barbaric and therefore okay? Yes, modern humans behave atrociously to animals, but does that mean I should be denied the food that I enjoy? Would you be happier if I kept my own animals humanely and slaughtered them myself?

CavySpirit said:

Ignorance is bliss.

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You're damn right it is. Pass the bacon please. 8)

Yes, modern humans behave atrociously to animals, but does that mean I should be denied the food that I enjoy?

Absolutely.

Would you be happier if I kept my own animals humanely and slaughtered them myself?

Damn straight. I have absolutely no problem with that.

I'd be much, much happier if you killed and cooked your cavies rather than buy a pound of hamburger.

Yeah, I think you should kill your animals too. If you want to eat the SO much, then kill them yourself

CavySpirit said:

I'd be much, much happier if you killed and cooked your cavies rather than buy a pound of hamburger.

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Wow.

What you've just suggested is illegal, I might point out. The RSPCA would be down on me like a tonne of bricks if I killed and ate my cavies, but I'm free to buy a pound of hamburger whenever I like.

A question for you: do you grow all your own vegetables? Modern methods of mass produced agriculture have been very destructive to the land, including mass clearing of native forests, dangerous pesticides and increased salt content in the soil and rivers. Many natives species of animals and insects have been made extinct because of land clearing. If I were to find that morally offensive, would it be fair of me to demand that you stop eating vegetables and grains of all types?

Look, I'm not trying to challenge your right to be a vegetarian. I'm just trying to make it clear that I would hope for the same level of respect towards my decision. I understand that you don't like the idea of eating meat, that's your choice and I respect that, but that doesn't mean I can't. We can agree to disagree, but I would appreciate a level of respect for my decision, not taking such a hard line.

Wow.

What you've just suggested is illegal, I might point out. The RSPCA would be down on me like a tonne of bricks if I killed and ate my cavies, but I'm free to buy a pound of hamburger whenever I like.

Well, the laws in Australia must be radically superior from the laws in the US, which surprises me. Here, you can raise and butcher your own animals. People do it all the time. So, no one raises and kills rabbits for food in Australia either? You learn something new every day.

I'm just trying to make it clear that I would hope for the same level of respect towards my decision. I understand that you don't like the idea of eating meat, that's your choice and I respect that, but that doesn't mean I can't. We can agree to disagree, but I would appreciate a level of respect for my decision, not taking such a hard line.

Sorry, I do take a hard line. You are the one that entered into the fray with this statement: It's not like meat eating is some barbarous practice invented by humans purely for cruelty, such as hunting for sport, nor do I think it's really comparable to slavery. It's a dietary requirement, which some people choose to get around.

I completely disagree with your statements. Factory farming may not have evolved with the pure motivation of cruelty, but that most certainly IS WHAT IT IS today.

This thread is now being moved the vegetarian forum where it belongs anyway.

Firstly and once again, since this conversation has now been moved to the vegetarian forum, I want to state that I have nothing at all against vegetarianism. I disagree with a lot of the views held but totally respect your right to have a different view from mine. As a result, I have stayed away from this forum and enjoyed the guinea pig sections.

However, even though CavySpirit chose to move this discussion to the vegetarian forum, I am reluctant to allow that to stop me from expressing my opinion on this matter, even though I know I have no hope in hell now of getting any support. I'm not here to insult anyone over their lifestyle choices.

CavySpirit said:

What you've just suggested is illegal, I might point out. The RSPCA would be down on me like a tonne of bricks if I killed and ate my cavies, but I'm free to buy a pound of hamburger whenever I like.

Well, the laws in Australia must be radically superior from the laws in the US, which surprises me. Here, you can raise and butcher your own animals. People do it all the time. So, no one raises and kills rabbits for food in Australia either? You learn something new every day.

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Just a disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know animal welfare laws well, but this is my understanding of matters.

I think you're deliberately misreprenting what I said. I said that it would be illegal to kill and eat my cavies, because they're pet animals and are entitled to a certain level of care. In law, both Australian and American (as I understand it), there is a distinction between animals intended for pets and for food. I know you probably don't agree with that law, but that's the way it is at the moment.

No, people in Australia do not keep rabbits as food animals because they are a pest here and a huge problem for farmers. Farmers are legally required to keep the number of rabbits on their property down, and may choose to utilise the meat afterwards as food. The alternative is that the carcass simply rots.

Yes, Australians can and do keep and raise animals for the purpose of food, we have one of the best sheep and cattle industries in the world. Do I want to keep my own animals for the purpose of food? Of course not, I live in a third floor apartment in a capital city, it's completely impractical. I'm lucky I can even keep guinea pigs as pets. Should that preclude me from eating meat? You say yes, I say no.

CavySpirit said:

Sorry, I do take a hard line. You are the one that entered into the fray with this statement: It's not like meat eating is some barbarous practice invented by humans purely for cruelty, such as hunting for sport, nor do I think it's really comparable to slavery. It's a dietary requirement, which some people choose to get around.

I completely disagree with your statements. Factory farming may not have evolved with the pure motivation of cruelty, but that most certainly IS WHAT IT IS today.

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I believe I have already responded to those statements. I understand you disagree with me. Do you have anything to say about my previous comments about the environmental cruelty which is a result of modern agriculture? Because I believe it is just as disasterous as animal factory farming, but that hasn't stopped anyone becoming a vegetarian.

Right... because, as you can see, meat eaters are contributing to BOTH problems. I'm content with my choice to contibute to only one part of what you have stated.

mncavylover said:

Right... because, as you can see, meat eaters are contributing to BOTH problems. I'm content with my choice to contibute to only one part of what you have stated.

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I see your point. So what you are suggesting is that vegetarianism is in fact the lesser of two evils, rather than a profoundly moral decision?

In law, both Australian and American (as I understand it), there is a distinction between animals intended for pets and for food.

In the US, there is no distinction. Here is an exact case in point, boy kills and cooks guinea pig for class demo. ((broken link removed)). Not a crime.

And the reason I moved this thread here (in part) is the rebuttals to the arguments you've posed are here in abandance in this forum. I don't have the time at this moment to go through and quote them for you.

Do you have anything to say about my previous comments about the environmental cruelty which is a result of modern agriculture? Because I believe it is just as disasterous as animal factory farming, but that hasn't stopped anyone becoming a vegetarian.

A quick look through this short forum will highlight the fallacy of that position. I'll search it out for you later.

It is very significantly the lessor of two evils and it is very much ALSO a profoundly moral decision--unless you subscribe to the acceptability of wholesale torture and abuse as being moral.

Oh and also in this forum, you'll find some posts indicating Australia's horrible record on the meat industry. I'm pretty sure it's here, I'll dig that out later, also.