Veg*n If you cant be a vegetarian!

That is a good recommendation, another one is getting Omaha meats. They are natural, organic, and cruelty free.

How do you kill something without being cruel? Death hurts unless you use things like anesthetic which would be left in the meat. There really is no good way to die. Unfortunately I can't be vegetarian because of vitamin deficiencies I already have trouble with. Things like B12 are only found in animal products unless it is synthetically made and added to vitamin enriched food products and the body or at least mine does not absorb this synthetic version well. I don't even absorb the natural vitamin correctly. Mostly though I eat eggs and fish.

How do you kill something without being cruel?

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I was actually wondering the same thing. No matter what you do, they still feel pain. Like aqh said, they can't use anesthetic. It may be a good idea for some people who have no other choice, but I'd rather stay vegetarian my self.

everytime, anyone posts something you reply in a extreme negative way. I know your trying to help but not everything needs to be replied to in such a manner.

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You are fairly new to the board, so I'll tell you that aqh does not act negatively very often. She gives great advice and is a very knowledgeable person. That comment was a little uncalled for.

I'm not a vegetarian and I often know how that fish was killed because I often go fishing for my own catfish out of the river. I really don't even have a problem with killing cows and other animals for food in many cases. Something dying to feed something else is a part of life to me and many of my neighbors have free range chickens and cattle in large pastures which they slaughter themselves. While I don't like the taste of beef, chicken, and several other meats and I know there are some very bad slaughter houses so I dislike buying these foods from the store even given the choice I will not become a complete vegetarian which is why I do not post in this section of the forum very often. But that is not what I posted to discuss.

Since we are asking it shows we don't know that much about halal or kosher farms and really I'm not sure where I would start to research that. That is why we are asking you since you seem knowledgeable about it and started the thread on it. I can't go see one with my own eyes because I've never even heard of halal and would have no idea where to find these places. Is it just considered less cruel because they raise the animals well and do not kill them in front of each other but still use normal methods when it actually comes to killing them? While I think that's a good improvement don't they still suffer just as much as an animal anywhere else when they are actually killed? I always though Kosher just had more to do with religious beliefs and I have no real interest in religion so I never researched it. If you do give me information that shows they carry out practices that make a big difference in how the animals are treated then those few times I do buy meat from the store I would look for such foods.

I just want to inform the people whose parents wont let them be vegetarians to switch to Halal and Kosher so that they dont feel bad that their eating meat.

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We're asking you to do just what you said. Inform us.

I need meat because of vitamin deficiency, however, if you are born vegetarian (from vegetarian family) then you wont have that problem.

Do you mean that if you grow up eating meat you have to continue it or else you will get a vitamin deficinacy? I may mis understand your statement if so please feel free to correct me.

Regarding halal and Kosher slaughter practices. The animal is not stunned prior to being killed. A razor sharp knife is then swifty used to slit the animals throat. The swiftness of the cut is believed to cause minimal pain and a quick death. Modern times have permitted the use or restraint boxes, where the head of the animal is held whilst the final cut is made.

In some halal (muslim slaughter) houses, employees use a short knife instead of the recommended one which should be as twice as thick as the animals neck. This short knife causes definite distress and struggling in cattle. If they do not stun the animal it is also recommended that the knife is razor sharp. Some slaughter houses use reversible head-only electrical stunning, which is accepted if the knife is short.

Some religious slaughter houses do not use stunning and restraint boxes. However it is recommended these be used and more slaughter houses are agreeing to them. It is extremely important that the person performing the slaughter makes a clean cut and not remove the animal from the restraint box until it is insensible, otherwise this causes severe pain, there have been cases where an animal was removed. Without the knowledge of a reputable slaughter house which is known for its experience consumers will never know if the cut is made cleanly. You must research this if you ever plan on eating kosher or halal meat.

If you do not you may support a slaughter house where a cut is not made cleanly and second or third cuts must be made in order for the animal to die. Also the slaughter house may remove the animal from the restraint box, before it is dead causing more pain. Some slaughter houses have also been reported to not use stunning equipment when using a short knife. This will cause severe ditress in the animal as a clean cut is not made fully.

Cutting an animals throat may cause less pain then the tradional bolt gun to the head used in factory farming but unless you truely know which slaughter house your meat came from you may never know if the cut is made cleanly.

Any death causes pain, and halal and kosher practices cause pain, same as any other killing. Animals cannot communicate so we may never know how much or how little pain they are in.

For more information on slaughter practices and kosher and halal meat click:
https://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

Regarding vitamin deficiancies. Changing to a vegetarian/vegan diet is not hard if you balance your vitamins and minerals. What is the medical name of the conditon you have that does not allow you to ''absorb'' these minerals? Is there any medication you can take?

B12 is found in: dairy products or free-range eggs. ½ pint of milk (full fat or semi skimmed) contains 1.2 µg of B12. A slice of vegetarian cheddar cheese (40g) contains 0.5 µg. A boiled egg contains 0.7 µg. A range of B12 fortified foods are available. These include yeast extracts, Vecon vegetable stock, veggieburger mixes, textured vegetable protein, soya milks, vegetable and sunflower margarines, and breakfast cereals.

These foods all contain B12 and have no meat in them whatsoever.

Also, at least in Canada CFIA has less control over the slaughter it self. So if there is a problem with the slaughter that really has nothing to do with the edibility of the meat they are lothe to say anything. They don't want to be sued for religious discrimination. I suspect it would be the same in America.

Also you cannot get halal or kosher pork. So what are these kids supposed to do when Mom or Dad wants them to eat pork chops, bacon or other pork dishes? It's hard to say you don't like it when you were wolfing it down 2 months ago, no problem.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!

Think Kosher slaughter is less cruel? Watch this if you can! https://tinyurl.com/4fuod and read this thread https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3376&highlight=kosher

Once again folks. This forum is NOT the place to support any kind of meat eating practices. It is a forum for supporting vegetarian lifestyles.

Exactly! KOSHER does NOT equal HUMANE death or humane life.

According to my religion, sikhism, we are not permitted to eat halal meat because in fact it can be a lot crueler. You cannot assume that it is more humane

Let's not bring religion into this thread.

aqh88, everytime, anyone posts something you reply in a extreme negative way.

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I think Aqh was bringing up a very valid point, not being negative.

Ly, don't you think I do know the rules by now? I was just stating a fact - what you are told is not always true (halal meat is better)

It's very hard not to bring religion into a product only made for religious purposes.

However, it doesnt stop the slaughter companies from hurting animals

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Eventually, it will. When enough people start boycotting the industry, either practices will have to change, or practices - like eating animals - will have to totally end.

ab

out aqh88, she brings up valid points but always opposite to what I say, even if it is my opinion,

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That - people disagreeing or being "opposite" of your opinion - is what a discussion usually entails. When a group of people all totally agree about something, there really isn't much there in the way of conversation.