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Hello from a Guardian of Three

Guardianof3

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Hi, everyone. Boy am I glad I found you all! I am re-visiting my guardianship of cavies and I need some guidance. I had piggies years and years ago, and I just don't remember it being the way it is now :?: I am doing quite a bit (I feel, but probably not enough) and still don't quite have a sense of enjoyment... nor do I feel my piggies are happy. It is very VERY quite in the cage(s). My introductions are a bomb :sad: and my selection of them have been even worse :crazy: I am at a lost, no matter how much $$ I throw at trying to make this work. I'll keep trudging along, since it has only been about a month (for the oldest, Reese) and less than a week for the other two. Hello from a Guardian of Three
 

MLT2007

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Welcome to the forum! As I am sure you are aware this site has tons of very valuable information. You seem so down about your piggies. What exactly are the problems? Perhaps we could help. My pigs brought me great joy from the moment I got them,even when things didn't go as planned.
 

PiggieWigglies

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Welcome! This is a great place if you ever need help and it seems as if you're having trouble with your pigs. What exactly is the problem?
 

Guardianof3

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Welcome to the forum! As I am sure you are aware this site has tons of very valuable information. You seem so down about your piggies. What exactly are the problems? Perhaps we could help. My pigs brought me great joy from the moment I got them,even when things didn't go as planned.

MLT2007 and PiggieWigglies - thank you, Both, for inquiring. Its just been bad intro after bad intro! Now I've gone and done the worst thing ever - separated them... which I know will make it much much harder to re-introduce. I know I've got to do it, for the piggies' sake, and because the two large cages squeezed together is going to give my hubby a fit when he arrives from his business trip - LOL (he was already a bit peeved at "these rodents needing an EVEN LARGER cage after only two weeks in the one that cost over $100!?!" - LOL, I just love his cluelessness :)

Needless to say, I was trying to save the "sweet, docile nature of the younger sows" from the older sassy sow. This sassy sow, Reeses, was not as vicious as the previous sow (who has since left the colony), but I just couldn't tolerate the sound of the "dating game" harassment. On top of my being the impatient, bad Guardian, now that the sows are separated (two now skiddish and untrusting young sows in the 2x4 and the older sassy sow in the rabbit-sized cage) there is absolutely no activity in either cage.... NOTHING - like nada. The bravest (and most docile) of the young will trek to the kitchen area, but the other will not. I've had the brave sow, Truffle, since June 13th and the other, Caramel, since Monday. I think Caramel MAY have eaten maybe one tablespoon worth of pellets since that time. That was my original concern when I separated them. Caramel seemed hungry in between being chased relentlessly by Reeses (older sow) as she would always circle to the kitchen, grab a pellet or two, then "run for her life". Prior to the chasing, and the original intro, Caramel was as docile and less likely to run from me as was (is) Truffle.

Since that horrible intro (keep in mind, I put them all out on the lawn in an enclosed pet pen, cleaned the 2x4, changed bedding, rearranged furniture and all prior to putting all 3 back in the 2x4 - that was the first intro on neutral ground, no second intro attempted yet) Caramel is not eating. She runs around incessantly trying to avoid my touch. She'll stay in a pigloo or hammock with no interaction or eating. Truffle now runs away from me, too, but not as tirelessly as Caramel. Once I have them both for laptime, they are gentle and not squirmy. Reeses is Reeses - skiddish, harsh, "let me down now" - so her personality hasn't changed much. Although I must admit she doesn't run away as much as before when she was in the 2x4 - could be because of the small cage size.

So, my Cavy Advisors, that's it! No wheeking, no eating, no sight of any of my guineas. I know, I know, it's only been a week with one, a few days with another and a month with the oldest, but I guess I was really taking that "social animal" tagline to heart. In spite of their lack of cage activity, I still chase them down for a rub and/or laptime - probably too much (at least three times a day since their cages are in my home office).

Maybe I should just leave them alone? I was planning on re-introducing after a bath session this weekend, since both cages will need cleaning, then I can just consolidate to the 2x4 and get over my fears (esp. since the docileness seems to have left the younger ones already due to their previous traumatic experience with the older sow).

THOUGHTS? GUIDANCE??? THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH
 

PiggieWigglies

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A 2x4 is wayyy to small for 3 pigs, even females who sometimes get along in smaller spaces. You can upgrade to a 2x6 or a 3x4. Also, try a buddy bath with all 3 of them at once (have someone help you) also what size was the pen that you introduced them in? They would need a large space with a large pile of veggies and a large pile of hay. I know it may seem scary but you don't need to seperate til a full out fight is happening or blood is drawn. Mounting, rumblestrutting, slight nipping is all normal. This might help https://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm Also, go to the main home page of this website and you can also see how pig of a space is needed for 3 pigs.
 

pigger123

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According to the guinea pig cages store, a 2x5 is the recommended size for 3 females.
 

TheDNDWizard

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I really would recommend a larger cage 2X6 at the very smallest bigger is always better. I also believe they just need more time to get to know one another. Please keep in mind that guinea pigs are slow to warm up especially sows. It took my boys months before either of them made a sound. I have had them now for about 4-5 months and they week and squeal up a storm when I walk into the bedroom. Trust me they will make some noise soon just give them time. Soon you will be telling them to shut up lol. I would agree with PiggiesWiggies a pig bath party would help them bond.
 

Guardianof3

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Thank you, TheDNDWizard, a bath is the next step. I read of putting vanilla on the noses and bums, don't know about that, though
 

PiggieWigglies

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Thank you, TheDNDWizard, a bath is the next step. I read of putting vanilla on the noses and bums, don't know about that, though
I don't think the vanilla could do any harm. You aren't putting enough on for them to bathe in it lol. I also think that the 2x6 might work better for you like TheDNDWizard and I previously mentioned. :) Let us know how it goes!
 

maddy harper

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hello and welcome to gpc
 

MLT2007

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My advice, other than a larger cage as others have stated, is to just leave them be for now. My Penelope wanted nothing to do with me for the longest time. I just left her to do her piggy things, talked to her regularly, without touching her at all (except for nail trims), and now I can hold her with very little freaking out. She doesn't mind being on my lap now; she only hates the picking up part. It sounds like maybe your pigs just need to acclimate to their new surroundings. As far as the intros go- I have read time and time again on this forum that they will have to work out their dominance issues. As long as no blood is drawn just let them be. They'll figure it out. I recently got a third pig, Pancake, and after about a month of harmony Penelope started chasing and mounting her. I now know that as normal behavior when sows are in heat, but it did scare the bejeesus out of me, so I know how you feel. After a day and a half all was well again. They change up their hierarchy every couple weeks. Kiwi doesn't even care. As long as there is fresh hay, water, pellets, veggies, and lots of petting from me she doesn't care what goes on around her! Hang in there, keep us updated, and I hope soon you can feel the joy of being a piggy slave!
 

Red5Iam

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I'm sorry you aren't feeling a lot of enjoyment right now! I know that feeling is really stressful, and can get into your head so you think you aren't doing things right. Just be sure you give yourself, and your pigs, enough time to get used to each other!

Like pretty much everyone else so far, I would definitely say your best bet when your pigs aren't getting along is to give them more space, and going to a 2x5, rather than a 2x4 might do the trick. The store lists it as you could fit 3 in a 2x4, if they're a well bonded group. Which, obviously, your girls aren't just yet. I know I could definitely not put my three (before they were joined by the 4th) in just a 2x4, and they got along pretty well as it was.

Also, just make sure you give them plenty of time to work through their dominance issues. I just had to do the second introduction of my existing trio to a new sow, and I would definitely say the buddy bath method helped. They're still chasing, but they aren't fighting this time (before I separated them, there were more than one flying fur ball fights, and Harley got a little cut up on her nose). Also be sure that you provide multiple water bottles (try one at each end of the cage) and divide up the food similarly. This makes it a lot harder for one pig to bully the others away from the food.

Keep us updated & welcome to the forum!
 

Guardianof3

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I don't think the vanilla could do any harm. You aren't putting enough on for them to bathe in it lol. I also think that the 2x6 might work better for you like TheDNDWizard and I previously mentioned. :) Let us know how it goes!

YAY! YOU ALL DID IT... sorry, for yelling, I'm just so excited. The buddy bath + vanilla seemed to do it. Although they all ignored each other for 5+ hours afterwards, when they did come in contact it was very minimum heartache... actually no rumblestrutting, no teeth chattering just some chasing. I had thoroughly cleaned the cage, put all new toys, pigloos (I recycled from ThirtyOne) and installed two kitchens. Only one was actively eating, throughout the whole day, but all in all - I'm happy there are no major upsets. And I've now figured out I have night owls! All these hours that we all share a room (my home office) and I would not seem them, they would come out to dine after I had left around 1900. I wonder if there is a way to change their schedules?? Nonetheless, they are all happy (or actively indifferent), I'm happy - just can't wait to see more popcorning :)

I promise I will not remove them unless there is blood shed. Now I'll move on to tackling inside floor time (they love outdoors together) space. I've got plenty of baby gates, lots of DIY entertainment ideas from this forum (paper bags, newspapers, tunnels...) and litter/potty trays ready!

I've learned so much from this forum in less than a day and I'm happy now.
 

pigger123

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I'm so glad they're together now! They may adjust their schedules to when you feed them, take them out for floor time, etc. Try to keep yourself on a consistent schedule with caring for them so they will know what's happening when.
 

PiggieWigglies

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What size cage are they in? Or are you keeping them in a large playpen for now...
 

PigglyWiggly29

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Very cute pigs! Have fun in pig parent hood
 
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