Pellets New Oxbow Natural Science?

[vania]

I am introducing my four girls to new the Oxbow Natural Science Adult Guinea Pig food. I payed almost $17 for a 4 pound bag though:/ The main ingredients are different than their Cavy Cuisine and it seems like it would be a lot better, so what are your opinions on this new brand? My girls are eating it just as much as their old pellets. I am using less than half of the new brand mixed in with the old one for now.

Here are some details for the Natural Science:
[h=4]Ingredients[/h] Timothy Grass, Orchard Grass, Oat Grass, Oat Hulls, Canola Meal, Whole Yellow Pea, Whole Barley, Tomato Pomace (dehydrated), Cane Molasses, Flax Seed, Yeast Culture (dehydrated), Sodium Bentonite, Salt, Lignin Sulfonate, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Rosemary, Dried Thyme, L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate (Vitamin C), Inulin, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Magnesium Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate
[h=4]Guaranteed Analysis[/h]

• Crude Protein (min) 12.00%
• Crude Fat (min) 3.00%
• Crude Fiber (min) 22.00%
• Crude Fiber (max) 26.00%
• Moisture (max) 10.00%
• Calcium (min) 0.40%
• Calcium (max) 0.80%
• Phosphorus (min) 0.35%
• Copper (min) 35 mg/kg
• Vitamin A (min) 19,000 IU/kg (min)
• Vitamin D (min) 900 IU/kg (min)
• Vitamin E (min) 190 IU/kg (min)
• Vitamin E (min) 190 IU/kg (min)
• Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min) 400 mg/kg
• Omega 3 Fatty Acid (min) 0.45%
• Omega 6 Fatty Acid (min) 0.90%

And here is the Essentials Cavy Cuisine:

[h=4]Ingredients[/h] Timothy Grass Meal, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Soybean Meal, Cane Molasses, Sodium Bentonite, Soybean Oil, Salt, Lignin Sulfonate, Limestone, Yeast Culture (dehydrated), L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate (Vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Magnesium Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate
[h=4]Guaranteed Analysis[/h]

• Crude Protein (min) 14.00%
• Crude Fat (min) 2.00%
• Crude Fiber (min) 25.00%
• Crude Fiber (max) 28.00%
• Moisture (max) 10.00%
• Calcium (min) 0.35%
• Calcium (max) 0.85%
• Phosphorus (min) 0.25%
• Salt (min) 0.50%
• Salt (max) 1.00%
• Copper (min) 30 ppm
• Vitamin A (min) 19,000 IU/kg
• Ascorbic Acid (Vit C.) (min) 400 mg/kg
• Vitamin D (min) 900 IU/kg
• Vitamin E (min) 190 IU/kg

And here's a link to their site:
Oxbow Animal Health | Natural Science - Adult Guinea Pig Food

 

[pinky]

I know that there are a lot of people on here who know a lot about the ingredients of KM Hayloft pellets. I know one of the biggest differences is the limestone oxbow has but are the other ingredients also different?

 

[PetsRLife23]

Crude Protein	(min)	14.00 %
Crude Fat	(min)	2.5 %
Crude Fiber	(min)	20.00 %
Crude Fiber	(max)	25.00 %
Vitamin A	(IU/LB)	13,640
Vitamin D-3	(ICU/LB)	455
Vitamin C	(MG/LB)	450
Calcium	(min)	0.7 %
Phosphorus	(min)	0.4 %

Ingredients: Timothy grass hay, oats, wheat, barley, soybean hulls, soy meal, Choline Chloride, stabilized Vitamin C, Vitamin A supplement,Vitamin E supplement, Manganese Oxide, Meniodine Bisulfate, dl-Methionine, Zinc Oxide, d-Calcium Pantothenate,Copper Sulfate, Niacin, d-Biotin supplement, Pyrideoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement, Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, Calcium Iodate, Cane molasses

That is for KMS Timothy pellets which do you guys feel is better? I have been feeding oxbow, but I want to switch to KMS.

 

[pinky]

If you want a comparison, think the Oxbow Essentials is better than the Oxbow New Science. You don't want the oats or barley which are grains. They're fattening. The cane molasses is way at the bottom of the ingredients so it looks like there's less sugar than KM Pellets, though. I think molasses is what makes the pellets so tasty to guinea pigs so maybe Oxbow is trying to cut down on the sugar and add the grains for flavor. I don't think that the molasses is good for them, either, since it's sugar. I'd stay away from pellets with canola meal and peas, too. I did notice that Oxbow Essentials and KM pellets have molasses listed pretty high on their ingredients lists so that's not great, either.

Does anyone have the complete ingredient list for KM pellets?

 

[vania]

Yeah, I have been thinking about buying the pellets from KMS since I love their hay. I just liked the ingredients in Oxbow's Natural Science, since the first few are all different types of hay. But the KMS pellets also seem good and they will be more economical.
It looks like I will be making the switch to KMS.
The list of the ingredients for KMS Timothy pellets was posted above, cane molases is at the bottom. This makes it even better.

 

[PetsRLife23]

This is for the Kleenmama pellets:

Ingredients: Timothy grass hay, oats, wheat, barley, soybean hulls, soy meal, Choline Chloride, stabilized Vitamin C, Vitamin A supplement,Vitamin E supplement, Manganese Oxide, Meniodine Bisulfate, dl-Methionine, Zinc Oxide, d-Calcium Pantothenate,Copper Sulfate, Niacin, d-Biotin supplement, Pyrideoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, Riboflavin supplement, Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, Calcium Iodate, Cane molasses.

I am most likely switching to their pellet. I think my piggie Kaden is sensitive to the calcium used in Oxbow. I heard guineas react different to the calcium in the oxbow vs. KMS. Hopefully they like it just as much though.

 

[pinky]

I didn't realize KM had oats and barley so high on the ingredient list. I thought grains were to be avoided. They have molasses very low on their list which is better than Oxbow but Oxbow has orchard grass which is lower in calcium than timothy hay. I'm confused now. I thought that grains were a no-no.

 

[PetsRLife23]

Okay well now my brain hurts.

 

[PetsRLife23]

I didn't realize KM had oats and barley so high on the ingredient list. I thought grains were to be avoided. They have molasses very low on their list which is better than Oxbow but Oxbow has orchard grass which is lower in calcium than timothy hay. I'm confused now. I thought that grains were a no-no.

What do you feed your pigs?

 

[pinky]

What do you feed your pigs?

I used to feed Oxbow Cavy Cuisine, then Oxbow Essentials. Then I switched to KM pellets and ordered my last three 25 lb orders from them. I switched to Sweet Meadow this last time to try those out. One of mine prefers Oxbow, one prefers KM and the others seem to like Sweet Meadow and KM about the same but not Oxbow as much. The Sweet Meadow is a lot less expensive so I decided to try it for that reason. I've been told Sweet Meadow has the same calcium that Oxbow has but I noticed less sludge in my one guinea pig that tends to get sludge since I switched to Sweet Meadow. She had sludge while eating Oxbow and KM. I took her off romaine and give her low calcium veggies. I think there's more to sludge than just the calcium. I'm inclined to think there's a genetic component to it.

 

[PetsRLife23]

DO you have the ingredients list for sweet meadow?

 

[pinky]

DO you have the ingredients list for sweet meadow?

I don't. I decided to try them because they are one of the recommended brands. When I mentioned that I bought Sweet Meadow, one of the mods said that it had the same calcium as Oxbow. The four recommended pellets have always been KM, Oxbow, Sweet Meadow and Mazuri 5664. The first three are timothy based and Mazuri is alfalfa based so you can feed the timothy ones 1/4 cup a day and the Mazuri 1/8 a day. I think any of the 4 are acceptable as long as you feed them the recommended amounts. It's like veggies with the calcium to phosphorus ratios. You can feed veggies with calcium as long as you maintain the ratio.

 

[PetsRLife23]

I don't. I decided to try them because they are one of the recommended brands. When I mentioned that I bought Sweet Meadow, one of the mods said that it had the same calcium as Oxbow. The four recommended pellets have always been KM, Oxbow, Sweet Meadow and Mazuri 5664. The first three are timothy based and Mazuri is alfalfa based so you can feed the timothy ones 1/4 cup a day and the Mazuri 1/8 a day. I think any of the 4 are acceptable as long as you feed them the recommended amounts. It's like veggies with the calcium to phosphorus ratios. You can feed veggies with calcium as long as you maintain the ratio.

I think I will try KMS first to see how it goes since I get my hay from there. I also noticed you only feed orchard grass, how has that been for you? I have a small bag from oxbow that I use as a treat for my pigs and they love it.

 

[pinky]

I think I will try KMS first to see how it goes since I get my hay from there. I also noticed you only feed orchard grass, how has that been for you? I have a small bag from oxbow that I use as a treat for my pigs and they love it.

I order boxed orchard grass from Oxbow in 50 lb boxes. Pet Supplies Plus orders it directly from Oxbow and they ship it to the store along with their regular Oxbow shipments so I don't pay extra for shipping to my house. It costs me about $61 which includes tax. I think the actual cost is $55 for 50 lbs. It's always nice and green. I switched to orchard grass because I'm allergic to timothy hay. plus it's a lot softer than timothy.

 

[PetsRLife23]

I order boxed orchard grass from Oxbow in 50 lb boxes. Pet Supplies Plus orders it directly from Oxbow and they ship it to the store along with their regular Oxbow shipments so I don't pay extra for shipping to my house. It costs me about $61 which includes tax. I think the actual cost is $55 for 50 lbs. It's always nice and green. I switched to orchard grass because I'm allergic to timothy hay. plus it's a lot softer than timothy.

Is it okay to have them on orchard grass alone? I always thought timothy was the staple hay. Then again they are both grass hay so it makes sense.

 

[pinky]

Is it okay to have them on orchard grass alone? I always thought timothy was the staple hay. Then again they are both grass hay so it makes sense.

Either is acceptable. It just has to be a grass hay. You don't want the primary hay to be oat hay which is a grain hay or alfalfa which is a legume hay.

 

[PetsRLife23]

All this hay talk has my piggies wheeking! Literally!

 

[pinky]

Pinky, my partner is HIGHLY allergic to any timothy hay. I have been feeding bluegrass hay for over a year and my cavies love it.........the whole family is happy now!

Spy9doc, that was my issue with timothy hay, too. I have asthma and I'd be wheezing as soon as I opened the box. I have no problems with orchard grass at all and my guinea pigs prefer it over timothy, too.

 

[Paula]

She had sludge while eating Oxbow and KM. I took her off romaine and give her low calcium veggies. I think there's more to sludge than just the calcium. I'm inclined to think there's a genetic component to it.

I very much agree that there is a significant genetic component to stones/sludge - else pigs that eat Hartz and crappy veggies with alfalfa hay their entire lives would have more issues than they do. Of course, it's entirely possible they do have issues that go undetected because owners who feed Hartz and crappy veggies with alfalfa hay tend to take their guinea pigs to the vet less often than those who are inclined to care what their pet is eating. Hard to say, but it's also important to note that not all calcium is created equal - calcium carbonate comprises something along the lines of 99.999% of all stones in guinea pigs and while you can't assume that correlation represents causation, I personally think it's important to avoid calcium carbonate, keeping in mind that the plant based calcium found in hays and vegetables is NOT calcium carbonate.

If you do have a stone or sludge pig, though, the calcium to phosphorous ratio is less important than lowering overall calcium (especially calcium carbonate, though at that point any and all calcium seems to cause a problem). The widely accepted calcium to phosporous ratio as it relates to guinea pigs is based on research done with horses and rabbits - similar species but not the same - and is very, very dated. For pigs that aren't stone/sludge prone, I'm inclined to believe that lowering calcium without significant regard to the ratio is also more important, as the potential damage caused by a ratio that's off is much, much easier to correct and far less invasive than a stone surgery.

DO you have the ingredients list for sweet meadow?

As of 6/8, this is the ingredient list for Sweet Meadow:

Timothy Grass Hay, Soybean Hulls, WheatMiddlings, Soybean Meal, Cane Molasses, Sodium Bentonite, Salt, L-ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Vitamin C), Limestone, Yeast Culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Vitamin A Acetate,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement (tocopherol), Ascorbic Acid, Menadione Sodium, Bisulfate Complex (Vitamin K), Cobalt Sulfate, Kelp, Ethylenedamine Dihydriode, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Panthothnic Acid, Biotin, Thiamine, Choline, Di-Methionine, Pyrodoxine, Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Magnesium Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Oxide, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Mineral Oil, Potassium Chloride