Adoption info on this site

[Annab7]

For some reason I thought I'd post a quick reply. I did get both my girls, Gloria and Pearl from Petsmart. I had no idea that you could even adopt Guinea Pigs at the time. I am not ashamed though, and I thought it was sad that there are people on here who are ashamed when they did not know that what they were doing was wrong. More or less, I feel sorry that I did something that is seen as bad and can be bad, rather than adopt a guinea that needed a good home, but I'm not ashamed at all. I love my girls. I plan on getting more piggies and will look for them only in adoption places and such, but for those who purchased their little babies; you have no reason to be ashamed if you purchased them BEfore you knew it was bad, only if you purchased them AFter you knew it was bad. And just to point out, when I went to get my Piggies from Petsmart (I did gobs of research on their health and care prior, but missed the whole adopting one post; perhaps adoption info should be placed at the beginning of each forum, like one that says BEFORE YOU BUY:ADOPT [READ THIS]. I would have seen that) anywho, when I went to Petsmart and pointed out that I wanted Guinea Pigs they sent out a lady who is the main caretaker of the piggies and she asked me tons of questions as if she was ready to convince me against my decision if I didn't know jack, and she was very pleased with how much thought I put into it before I came to get them, even so much as having a homemade cage ready for them before I even got them. There was also another woman there with her young daughter who wanted a piggie but they had done no research. The lady gave them a book on Piggies and told them to read that and if they still wanted one afterwards then they could get one. She couldn't stop them from getting one if they really wanted, but she did try to make sure they knew what they were doing beforehand. She also was an avid Piggie owner. Anywho, I just wanted to say that because not all petstore people are there just to sell an animal.

 

[rabbitsncavyluv]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

There are pro adoption messages all over the board and website. I don't know how you missed them if you were reading. There are two adoption forums on here. What did you think they were for?

Even if the employees seem nice, they are still selling animals from breeding mills and often house them in poor conditions, and sell harmful products for them.

 

[Paula]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

And just to point out, when I went to get my Piggies from Petsmart (I did gobs of research on their health and care prior, but missed the whole adopting one post; perhaps adoption info should be placed at the beginning of each forum, like one that says BEFORE YOU BUY:ADOPT [READ THIS]. I would have seen that) anywho,

Adoption info is just about EVERYWHERE on this site, and many others (it isn't just ONE post), so the only way I can imagine a person missing it altogether is if it was done by choice. I agree that you've got no reason to be "ashamed" if you didn't know any better, but you can't blame a forum for your oversight or lack of attention to the adoption versus buying issue, especially a forum like this one, where the info is virtually plastered every place you look.

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Well, I did look all over the forum for the adoption info, just to be sure before I made my post, and let me say this first. This is in no way arguing with anyone, I just want to be clear and understandable in this. I have two friends, one a very close friend, both of these friends work in training, advertising, and a customer service base. One works for a big company as a trainer of all the employees that come into the company, the other works for big online retailers, he designs and formats their websites for optimum sales of not just products but the products that they want to sell first. I have actually been to one of his classes on running a successful website. Anywho, both of them have talked about how to get peoples attention and the attention spans of people as well. I've talked more with my friend Nikole on this as she has been to training sessions herself on this very thing. To put it plainly, people only see what they are looking for or what they think they need or want. If you go to any department store and you look straight ahead, know that the products you are seeing are paying extra to be there because they are more likely to be noticed. The friend I have who runs websites for big companies, he knows how to get people to notice what the companies want them to notice. If I go to a website looking for a Maxi dress, I don't see anything else except to go straight to the Maxi dresses, if they don't have them, I move on. That website has to have items that they want to sell placed in a way that someone like me will notice them. For starters, I found this site after I had already purchased my piggies so I wasn't looking at adopting. I was looking at how best to care for the piggies I already own. I didn't notice the adopting thing because I wasn't looking for it, thinking about it, or even considering it at the time. I made the suggestion because if there are other people out there like me (and to some degree I'm sure there are) then they may not see the adoption info. It's just not optimally located for attention getting exposure. I'm not saying this as an excuse, I'm letting you guys know for the benefit of rescued piggies out there and so adjustments can be made to put it out there better. Even adoption sites have ways of getting people to notice what they would normally miss by putting out a picture of a male in the front when they really want that guy adopted. If I or someone else comes in looking for a female but that picture of the most adorable and in need of a home male comes at us, we may stop and go, "I think I just might get him." Why do you think the milk and eggs is always at the back of the store or clearance racks are in the middle of all the other clothes or at the back. It forces people to notice what they'd normally just walk by. This isn't about selling piggies, but about making it obvious that adoption is not only preferrable, but the only way to go. This is just advice on how to make it more obvious, because coming from a person who has made and sold her own jewelry for years, I know exactly how to get people to notice things they wouldn't have otherwise. Large links pointing out adoption or ALL CAPS posts that are at the beginning of every forum, no matter the main topic, will give great exposure to the cause. I found the cavy website before I bought my piggies but I was reading on C&C cages and didn't come to the forum until after I purchased them, and even then I was concerned with the best food to feed them, not adopting since I already had them. If adoption was more prodominatly posted here then I doubt you would even have people that get told how bad buying their piggies was (and making them feel awful in the process) because they would have read the adoption thing and most likely would have never pointed out that they purchased their piggies at all, and then next time they go for a piggy, they'd adopt.

 

[Dichotomy83]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Let He without sin, cast the first stone.

I completely agree that education is important, and that as a whole, this site is a VERY informative, MUCH needed resource for all current and potential cavy owners.


Just as a comment from a new-ish user, though....sometimes posts by other members of this forum come across as harsh, when there is no need to be. You can get a point across without having a "tone" in your writing, yanno? For every member we have, there could potentially be another 3 that didnt stick around due to the harshness.

So I guess this is just a gentle reminder that we werent born cavy experts, either. We all have/had to learn somewhere.

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Another suggestion: I've seen a few adoption posts that were specifically moved to the adoption forum when they probably would have been noticed more had they been left in that area. Is there a way for an administrator to post a topic that is permanent (like at the top) where people cannot respond but rather it redirects them to the actual adoption forum? That would help out tremendously. And like Dichotomy83 (I had to work hard not to misspell that ) everyone here at some point started out as a newbie and should be considerate of those who are newbies. I'm here to learn and provide the best, healthiest, and longest life possible for my piggies, not to argue over mute points (like I bought my piggies, so very sorry, but what's done is done). I know better now and that is why I'm suggesting ways of making sure that what I and others have done is not repeated when it could have been prevented by just a tad more awareness efforts.

 

[bpatters]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

I'm also new to the forum, but I agree with both Annab7 and Dichotomy83.

I came here looking for an answer to a specific question, and if I hadn't realized that the site is a great resource and had time to come back and browse, I would have missed the adopt vs. buy threads. Since this site is so pro-adoption/anti-purchase, it would be a great thing to have a banner across the top, in vivid colors, that links to adopt vs buy info, that says something like, "Wanting a guinea pig? Read this first!!" Then, the first-time readers who haven't gotten their pigs yet would have absolutely no excuse for missing the discussions on adoption.

And Dichotomy83 is right about the tone that sometimes gets taken when people either have purchased their pets or have them housed in more-or-less unsuitable cages. Some people stick it out with the often repetitive posts that get made telling them what they've done wrong, but I wonder how many others just go away and never come back, thereby missing the amazing amount of great information to be had here.

As an example, I was talking with an acquaintance who has guinea pigs housed in a pet store cage, and suggested to her that she could find some good information on this site. She took one look, emailed me back and said she wouldn't be coming here again because of the rudeness of some of the posts. I think her approach is short-sighted as well, but I also think she's not alone in her opinion.

I've read the posts that say that the site is dedicated to improving the lives of guinea pigs, and I agree wholeheartedly with that. But some unknown percentage of people who come here aren't coming back because they're running into a verbal buzz saw, and the lives of their pigs aren't being improved. It's just my opinion, of course, but I think you'd positively affect the lives of more pets with a little less "piling on" (multiple posters saying the same thing) and a less accusatory tone.

 

[blackarrow]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

So let me get this straight, this forum isn't doing a good enough job promoting adoption to people like you, who didn't go looking for information on piggie care until AFTER you already bought?

 

[bpatters]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Blackarrow, I assume you're talking to me. And if so, your response is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I don't have my pigs yet, and I'm not going to buy them. But I originally came here in response to a google search about cages, and only found the adoption stuff after I came back several days later.

If you weren't talking to me, I apologize for thinking so.

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Wow, I guess that proves the point about attitude, and yes, it isn't doing a good enough job in promoting the adoption agenda. What's wrong with wanting to offer advice on how to improve the site? No one is perfect and no website is, and I did get information on piggy care BEFORE I bought. I made my C&C cage BEFORE I bought, and purchased all the necessaties BEFORE I bought, but I did not notice the adoption thing until I had the time to sit and browse the site. I'm a busy girl and the only reason I've been on here as much as I have been today is because I'm sick and have a lot of college work to do online. I think the better response here would be to say "thanks for the advice" and "we'll keep it in mind" or perhaps "even though the biggest companies in the world pay thousands upon thousands of dollars a year to conduct surveys and find out what people are looking for, we're going to ignore everything you've said even though you've made valid suggestions and we didn't have to pay you for your time." I'm just trying to help and say "hey, I didn't notice it, perhaps we can do this to make it more noticable." I'm not trying to argue about this. I love the advice on this site and want to contribute in any way I can. I just spent hours making a tutorial on how to make a piggy bedspread. I didn't have to do it, but wanted to because so many people had questions. Do I want a pat on my back, no, I just don't want to hear attitude when it is totally not necessary.

 

[bpatters]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

I was too late to post an edit to my response to Blackarrow, so I'll add this thought. This site does promote adoption, but if you look at the top of screens, it says "Guinea Pig Cages" -- nothing about the best way to get a guinea pig. If you come here looking for cage information, as I did, and find it, as I did, you can totally miss the important adoption (and nutrition, bedding, etc. ) threads unless you've got time to come back and look again.

Since adoption is such an important issue, I'd just like to see it have more prominence in the banner.

 

[blackarrow]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Blackarrow, I assume you're talking to me.

No, I wasn't. I thought I had made it fairly clear I was talking to the person who's criticizing the board for not being clearly enough pro-adoption to have succeeded in making people who don't think to read it prior to buying, choose to adopt instead.

I don't know, folks, I'm a "busy girl" too and I still managed to read enough to have found out about the existence of guinea pig rescues prior to hitting up the local PetSmart. People who tend to get guff around here tend to be the ones who are just too darn busy to educate themselves, I'm afraid.

I'm not someone who should be thanking you for the advice on how to change the site, anyhow, Anna7, 'cause I'm just a regular old cavy slave here, who didn't need it.

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Really, this is the last post I'm making on this, but I really think you're getting just a teeny bit rude on this. I'm not the only person who didn't know about the adoption thing, and considering how many people have actually purchased and not adopted their guineas, I know I'm not the only one. It is rather rude to assume that I didn't take the time to educate myself on guinea pigs before I got one, and considering that my husband spent a lot of time online too, then I know I'm not the only one who missed it. Also, if you can't take constructive criticisim then you have issues that you should deal with. People who can't take constructive criticism are usually people who fail. I deal with them all the time. If by politily suggesting ways a website can be improved is simply criticising then you are very wrong. I in no way said, "this is an awful site that doesn't do jack to promote adoption," no, what I did say was "hey, I get it, adoption is way better than ever buying, perhaps you should do this and more people will notice it and realize how great it is." I was in no way rude, and I must admit, that I am shocked at the amount of rudeness that is found on this site. There are lots of things that I disagree with, but I know how to get my point across in a polite and curtious manner and have even been chided by my college teachers that even though they may disagree with me on certain points that I always make it in a curtious and respectful manner that is rare. If someone came onto my website and said "hey, I came to your site looking for diapers and stumbled upon your bags, you have great handmade bags but it's so hard to find them" rather than email them back and tell them how they lacked the time or drive to actually look around the site a little better (and they would have found them) and educate themselves better, I would stop and take a good look at my site, take their advice, and find ways to put it into practice if I saw a trend (such as the page rarely being visited). Considering I'm not the only one who said the adoption info was hard to find, and that is only a few of the people who have probably experienced it, I'm starting to notice a trend. Just my two cents.

 

[Paula]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

I see valid points on all sides, and I think the feedback that adoption could be a clearer message to those just happening by is worth having, and something the site's owner and administrator might appreciate and take into consideration if she's looking to make any changes.

All that said, I don't really know how it's possible to miss the plethora of information there is here about adopting versus buying on this forum, the home site, or the Cavy Spirit site. Speaking only for the forum, it's so evident in sticky threads, overriding themes - or tones - in so many posts, that I really can't imagine a person spending any amount of time here and missing it - unless it's by intention. And so it's clear, no one has said that you should be ashamed if you bought pigs or any other animals without knowing any better. There's no shame in not knowing.

As for tone, I don't know that it's reasonable to attempt to interpret this at any length over the internet and I think you do a disservice to yourself by taking things on this forum or any other personally. Which is far easier said than done, I realize, and easier for some folks than others, but in reality, we're all here giving advice on situations we may or may not have a complete picture on, so take it for what it's worth without ascribing attitude or accusations to it and move on.

Whether or not members comment and "pile on" is something that can't be changed, because everyone has a right to add their two cents, whether or not it's been added before. And, really, this "I have a friend who thinks" business isn't an effective way to win this argument, particularly because there are no specifics to point to and we're all talking in vague terms rather than in specific ones.

 

[akstrohm]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

This isn't blackarrow's site, so I don't think this is an issue of not taking criticism well.

I think the bottom line is that before you get any pet, it is a good idea to ask knowledgeable people where the possible places are to get that animal from and the pro's and con's of those places. It also makes sense that you should know what sort of housing, food, toys, vet care, etc. that animal requires before you get it. These things seem like common sense to me, but clearly there are many people who get a guinea pig from a pet store not knowing what sort of care it needs. The policy of this site is move on and encourage proper care from that point forward.

There are many, many stickies on this site that deal with adoption/pet store issues, and surely anyone who takes the time to read these stickies would understand the issues involved. Even if you come here looking for an answer to a specific question, I am not sure why you wouldn't take the time to read all the stickies, or at least most of them. That's really not a whole lot of effort. If you don't take the time to read the stickies, I'm not sure a more prominent banner is going to help you. You need to know a lot more about guinea pigs than just to adopt them. You have to actually take the time to do research about all aspects of care. Not everything can be put in a banner.

 

[CavyMama]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Annab, I'm sorry, there are TWO threads on the main page devoted to adoption. They are on the main page, there is no searching necessary.

Also, let's say for some reason, you did gloss over those threads, anyone who spends even a little time in the forums has seen at least one discussion about adoption versus buying.

But, what's done is done. Now you know and next time, you will be armed with the information that this site readily offers.

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

This is really the only time I've spent going through the forums at all. I mainly have gone straight to bedding and food themes. Other people do too, that is why I suggested that adoption be posted more in all places and not just in certain discussions or areas. It can be unintentionally missed if you haven't gone anywhere else other than to find out the diet your cavy should have.

I know online in is impossible to tell tone, but people can word things in ways that suggest politeness over a bad tone. Suggesting a person is "criticizing" rather than offering helpful information is just a bad way to put it if you are trying to be polite. I would have been seriously reprimanded in any online classes had I said that.

 

[blackarrow]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

. . . I really think you're getting just a teeny bit rude on this. I'm not the only person who didn't know about the adoption thing, and considering how many people have actually purchased and not adopted their guineas, I know I'm not the only one. It is rather rude to assume that I didn't take the time to educate myself on guinea pigs before I got one, and considering that my husband spent a lot of time online too, then I know I'm not the only one who missed it. Also, if you can't take constructive criticisim then you have issues that you should deal with....I was in no way rude, and I must admit, that I am shocked at the amount of rudeness that is found on this site. There are lots of things that I disagree with, but I know how to get my point across in a polite and curtious manner ....

As I said before, your "constructive criticsim" isn't properly directed at me in the first place, as it's not my forum. That said, I tend to find it plenty rude when people who haven't bothered to read entire sections of the forum start up with complaints about how the rude people here to people who haven't bothered to read entire sections of the forum.

Of course plenty of people don't know about adoption before buying, and no one has said they should be ashamed of not knowing. At the same time I find it completely incredible that someone could say with a straight face that she actually went looking for adoption information on this site and couldn't find any.

 

[blackarrow]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

Suggesting a person is "criticizing" rather than offering helpful information is just a bad way to put it if you are trying to be polite. I would have been seriously reprimanded in any online classes had I said that.

"Criticizing" is not some sort of a dirty word, but I'll keep it in mind if I ever decide I should take an online etiquette course from you!

 

[Annab7]

Re: Buying pigs in petstores

I was just making the suggestion because there are people here who have very strong feelings about it, and I'm not the only one who missed it. I rarely read through forums, rarely have time to do so, I mostly look for the ones with the most prudent information at the top, such as the food menus and the do's and don'ts. And seriously, when you just see the word Adopt or Adoption, the thing that comes to mind is that is another option Next to buying. Personally, I would have an intro or something that says, DON'T BUY, ADOPT to get my point across. People have had heated discussions on this, so I just thought I'd let anyone know that it can be hard to recognize as a bad thing if nothing tells you that it is unless you do a specific search for it. Also, where I live, I know no one who owns a piggie. I know some people do but it's not a common thing here. I used to be a vet tech before I got pregnant with my son and we never took piggies. I called around to each vet before I got my piggies and none of my local vets will take piggies (because most people don't have them). One will see them in an emergency, but for checkups we have to drive over an hour to see a small pet specialist. I had no one to tell me to adopt. When I looked online about getting a piggie I got so many sites that talk about adoption and buying and they talk about them both being options. I have in my favorites five different sites that talk about diet, I have a book on cavy diet. I had no one and nothing I saw until I came here and learned more about it talk about adoption as the ONLY option. I think you guys are right. The more I read, I know it's right, but to assume that a person should have known, or a person didn't research enough, or that there are gobs of piggies out there in need of rescue "how could you not know" message is what makes some people here feel ashamed. I went to the local animal rescue twice a week for almost three months with my mother-in-law until she found the perfect small dog (so did not like going that much) but because I used to be a vet tech she wanted me there, not once, did I see a guinea pig. I saw ferrets, no guinea pigs. From what I've learned, they overheat easy, it gets over 120 here in the summer which is usually 9 months out of the year. Only so many people keep their houses cool enough to keep a piggie comfy, that could be a reason. My point is, that some people, like me, knew no one, some people, like me, had no one, and some people, like me, spent hours reading on how to take care of them, feed them, love them, the work, the money that goes into them, not how to get one since that is a petsmart away. Like I said, I agree whole-heartidly that buying is wrong in the face of so many that are abused for the sake of breeding, but as I've found out, and others who have experienced getting a lashing, that typing guinea pig into google gets you a bunch of sites that tell you what a guinea pig is, and typing How to get a guinea pig, you get a bunch of sites that tell you how to pick a guinea pig and that buying and adoption are nuetral ground. I didn't do it, but there are so many sites out there with breeders and such, that for people who don't know any better, it gets mixed up. Rather than just saying adoption, let people know up from that buying is bad.