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UTI/Urinary Tract Infection Need opinions regarding surgery for 'pre-stones'

gpigluver14

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My pig Ruby is about 4.5 and has another UTI, previously she had one in November 2016. It was cleared then with 10 days of Baytril with no issues since, so she didn't get an x-ray. I had leftover Baytril so I was giving her the same amount when I noticed blood in her urine again recently. Unfortunately after 10 days she started having a tiny amount of blood again after it was mostly gone and I was then out of Baytril. Also on day 11 (yesterday) she started eating less and being less energetic, so I took her to (a new) vet today. She has also been squeaking more while urinating starting yesterday. Forgive me if I don't make sense- I couldn't sleep last night because I was worried about her.

She received an x-ray to check for stones and there was a spot of 'sand' and mineralization or 'pre-stones' in her bladder. The vet suggested possibly flushing her bladder before surgery, but that 2 more weeks of antibiotics may be enough to clear it up. I'm confused as to the difference of 'pre-stones' and sludge, are they the same thing?

She is now on Metacam 0.4 ml once per day (1.5 mg/ml) and Baytril 0.4 ml twice per day (22.6 mg/ml). I believe these are appropriate doses? She is 0.9 kg.

Then the tech talked to the surgeon who seemed to be set on going through with surgery. I go back in 10 days to speak with him about it and possibly get another x-ray. Shouldn't I wait to see if it clears up with more antibiotics, especially if it's not an actual stone? Or should I see another more cavy savvy vet? Surgery is also up to $1300 on the estimate which seems higher than average. I definitely do not want to put her through that if it's not necessary! Or my wallet...

Other info: she is in a 4x2 with another female, fleece bedding, Oxbow pellets, unlimited Timothy hay, a baby carrot every day, orange every week, red leaf lettuce often and occasional fruit- watermelon, apple, grapes, etc.

Thank you so much!
 

miniver

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Sorry to hear that Ruby is under the weather.

A few questions - Why is she having surgery? Did you get a urinalysis to check for an infection? Is the vet cavy-savy?

I don't know why they would wait or re-check in 10 days if it's a stone they think needs surgery and I don't know why they would do surgery for sand.
 

spy9doc

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If my understanding of the situation is accurate, I think that surgery is w-a-a-y premature. Surgery usually isn't dont for sludge. Yes, one might refer to sludge as "pre stones". The sludge is caused by the extra calcium precipitating out as sludge. When this extra calcium starts coalescing, then you have stone formation.

Cavies frequently don't drink enough water and urinate regularly. I was able to flush out my sow's bladder over one weekend by syringing copious amounts of water. I seem to recall using unflavored generic Pedialyte which she loved. Why do I think this was effective? Because on Friday an x-ray showed the sludge in her bladder, and the ultrasound done on Tuesday showed no sludge remaining. We managed to avoid surgery.

If they want to flush out her bladder, that may not be a bad idea. But.......I wouldn't agree to surgery at this point.
 

gpigluver14

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Sorry to hear that Ruby is under the weather.

A few questions - Why is she having surgery? Did you get a urinalysis to check for an infection? Is the vet cavy-savy?

I don't know why they would wait or re-check in 10 days if it's a stone they think needs surgery and I don't know why they would do surgery for sand.

Yes it is an exotic vet recommended on Guinea Lynx:

Animal Medical Center
www.mypetdoc.com
Dr. Brian Novak
Dr. Karen Crocker
25 West Third Avenue
Trappe, PA 19426

Phone: (610) 489-8982

I highly recommend Animal Medical Center in Trappe, PA. Specifically Dr. Brian Novak as our primary doctor with Dr. Karen Crocker as our backup when he is unavailable. Dr. Novak has performed over 100 guinea pig spays and neuters and has never lost a pig either during surgery or post op recovery (the next 3 weeks). It was like night and day between the horrble neuter performed at Kutztown versus the awesome one at Trappe.
(By the way, 8 years later, we now have 14 very spoiled piggies)
Contributed by: Fallnangel113 - 8/5/2014, 6:27 pm
Website verified: March 15, 2016

She had a urinalysis that revealed a lot of bacteria. I am definitely not doing the surgery and I'm not sure why he is pushing it.
 

gpigluver14

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If my understanding of the situation is accurate, I think that surgery is w-a-a-y premature. Surgery usually isn't dont for sludge. Yes, one might refer to sludge as "pre stones". The sludge is caused by the extra calcium precipitating out as sludge. When this extra calcium starts coalescing, then you have stone formation.

Cavies frequently don't drink enough water and urinate regularly. I was able to flush out my sow's bladder over one weekend by syringing copious amounts of water. I seem to recall using unflavored generic Pedialyte which she loved. Why do I think this was effective? Because on Friday an x-ray showed the sludge in her bladder, and the ultrasound done on Tuesday showed no sludge remaining. We managed to avoid surgery.

If they want to flush out her bladder, that may not be a bad idea. But.......I wouldn't agree to surgery at this point.

That's great that you managed to flush it out yourself, I will try the Pedialyte as well as extra water. I know the catheter flush is still risky and I would like to avoid it if possible. Definitely not going with surgery yet.
 

miniver

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Add extra water to her diet by wetting her lettuce or other veggies before you feed them. Cucumbers are good for extra liquid but watch that they don't make her gassy.

Also, you may want to give her a probiotic or poop soup from a healthy pig to avoid digestive issues.

UTI's can be stubborn. Just keep up the good care you're giving her and keep us posted.

...and try to get some sleep. :)
 

gpigluver14

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Add extra water to her diet by wetting her lettuce or other veggies before you feed them. Cucumbers are good for extra liquid but watch that they don't make her gassy.

Also, you may want to give her a probiotic or poop soup from a healthy pig to avoid digestive issues.

UTI's can be stubborn. Just keep up the good care you're giving her and keep us posted.

...and try to get some sleep. :)


Will do! Thanks!
 

gpigluver14

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Update on Ruby... She had a follow-up appointment today and the vet gave her a clean bill of health- he felt her bladder and there was no stones and it wasn't uncomfortable for her. I also haven't seen any blood in the cage for at least a couple of days, she's not hunching at all and is eating fine again. He said to finish the course of antibiotics and no further action should be necessary. Hopefully it's a long, long time before she has another UTI (but ideally never again!) I'm so glad she's okay since I have a lot going on right now with my mother going through chemo.
 

miniver

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I'm glad to hear Ruby is doing better. It's such a good feeling when you see them healthy again.
 

gpigluver14

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Update: Unfortunately Ruby is having issues again with blood in her urine and is uncomfortable when going to the bathroom. I took her to the vet last Thursday so it's now been 4 days that she's been on Metacam and Baytril 2x per day. However, there is still spots of blood and she is crying a lot/ hunching still when going to the bathroom. She is not eating or drinking much as well and I have been force-feeding her. I feel terrible for her and this is so frustrating.

The vet said to wait on another x-ray as he seemed to think it was another UTI like last time. Now I wish I went ahead and got it on Thursday as it may be a stone...? I'll be taking her back in tomorrow.

There should be some improvements by 4 days if it's just a UTI, correct?
 
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