Urine Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

No one can tell from the picture whether it's gritty or not. You'd have to rub it between your fingers. If it feels like sand, it's gritty. If it feels like powder, it's not.

What kind of pellets are you feeding and how many? And what is the rest of the diet like?

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

I second what @bpatters had to say. Sandy is gritty where as powdery is okay. Also, by posting your piggies diet we will be more able to see if there is an over abundance of a certain nutrient causing the gritty or white pee.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@bguardguy, I don't necessarily agree that powdery is ok but gritty is not. I know that's the received wisdom among guinea pig people, but I think powdery is just an earlier stage that may progress to gritty, and is a sign that something is wrong in the pig's calcium metabolism. To me, it's a sign that the diet ought to be examined and modified if necessary.

That said, some pigs will leave powdery spots no matter what they eat. But I think it's a mistake to assume that powdery calcium isn't a sign of a problem.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@bpatters Bleh, okay, I felt most of the white spots and they were powdery (*whew! but still, gross) and his diet is very hit & miss right now. Not certain what the previous owners fed him, but a couple of weeks ago all he would eat veggie wise was carrots & he didn't get much hay. I was told "it's a treat"... ANYWAY, his pellet brand is Wild Harvest and they're Western Timothy Essentials, High fiber, low protein formula. He gets a small handful daily (around an 1/8 cup--I like to bake), unlimited hay, and I just pick up something new when I go to the grocery store. This week he had a choice of Romaine lettuce or collard greens. He hated the greens, but last week he loved the Kale I picked up. He also likes the Romaine lettuce. Basically, about 1/2 of his 1 to 1 1/2 cups of veggies is something leafy & the rest is veggies and maybe a piece of fruit.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Well, romaine and kale can both be problems with calcium deposits. I'd suggest you get him on a steady diet of leafy greens (red or green leaf lettuce), bell peppers (for vitamin C), and a variety of other vegetables. See https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...y-nutrition-charts-poisonous-plants-list.html for what you can and can't feed.

The second ingredient in those pellets is alfalfa, which is high in calcium, and ground limestone (the source of the added calcium) is also problematic. I'd switch to a good, plain timothy pellet. KMS Hayloft makes great pellets, and they're cheaper than store bought if you compare the price per pound (include the shipping price in KMS to get the price per pound). Oxbow also makes good pellets, but some pigs will excrete urinary calcium when fed them.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Shame on them for being so misleading! If calcium is such a problem for gpigs, then why would they put alfalfa or limestone in them at all?? I guess I'll be looking for new pellets. Thanks bpatters!

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Well, they need some calcium, or their bones would fall apart. They just don't need huge amounts of it. Those pellets you mentioned had .10%, which is pretty high. .08% is considered on the high end of normal, and pigs with calcium metabolism problems need about .04, but those are really​ hard to find.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

While, yes, you have to feel the spot to know where you are on the powdery-gritty scale, that one photo where it covers the zigzag stitch looks so solid and concentrated! I would definitely crack down on the calcium intake.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@bpatters "I don't necessarily agree that powdery is ok but gritty is not. I know that's the received wisdom among guinea pig people, but I think powdery is just an earlier stage that may progress to gritty, and is a sign that something is wrong in the pig's calcium metabolism. To me, it's a sign that the diet ought to be examined and modified if necessary.

That said, some pigs will leave powdery spots no matter what they eat. But I think it's a mistake to assume that powdery calcium isn't a sign of a problem."

I def. agree with you. I guess I did not explain myself well. I did not mean okay as in there is no problem. I meant okay as in, generally not a huge change in diet or a visit to a vet, etc are required at the time. I am def. siding with the same mindset as you. To me powdery is a caution sign where as gritty is more of a warning sign.

@Piggy_B "Shame on them for being so misleading! If calcium is such a problem for gpigs, then why would they put alfalfa or limestone in them at all?? I guess I'll be looking for new pellets. Thanks bpatters! "

While it does sound like calcium is a problem at first glance, it really isn't. It just needs to be better understood. A little bit of extra calcium is fantastic for baby or growing piggies, which is why you will find that most higher rated food brands that have a specific food meant for baby piggies contains extra calcium. That is also why some people recommend using alfalfa hay during your piggies growing years and then later switching to timothy hay which has less calcium in it.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Also, many owners give alfalfa pellets or hay to pregnant or nursing piggies, to give them more nourishment for the pups.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@bguardguy That's a much better explanation, but Moo Moo is approx. 2 years old. Labeling a product as "Western Timothy" and then having alfalfa as the second most prominent ingredient, to me, is misleading. Especially since I made sure I was getting a plain pellet instead of the combo mix that came with him. And I agree with you, @Abbie Lauren there is definitely a time when alfalfa hay and pellets are important

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@Piggy_B I see what you are saying. However, the Walmart brand does not say Timothy only on the packaging. It is a Hay and Pellet combo that is also vitamin and mineral enriched. Meaning that it will have other ingredients in there as well. I don't see how having alfalfa being the second listed ingredient is interperted as misleading as long as it is not saying that Timothy is the only ingredient. Timothy is more than likely the bulk of what those pellets are made from, however that doesn't mean that alfalfa isn't used in moderation as filler or as a way to equal out what the distributor of the pellets views as a proper food formula. Either way though, I have known people who have used that food and have had no problem with calcium deposits in urine, as well as some who have. I think it is just generally a good idea to monitor the intake of calcium with reference to the information available on this site and determine how much is to much based on a specific pig rather than as a general lump whole. Hope you get things figured out for your piggies though, and that everything is okay. I just recently switched to Oxbow pellets and have not really had a problem with calcium deposits from it, or the Kaytee I had previous to that. Maybe it is worth thinking about switching especially if it will give you more peace of mind, and be a better pellet for your pig to nom up.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

That being said, I'm seeing deposits (not every time they pee) and I'm using Oxbow pellets because I get them cheap through school. I've seen around here that other people have had this experience as well, but since it's not every time they pee, I'm just watching other sources of Ca and trying to cut down on that.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Wow I wish I could get oxbow pellets cheap. They are expensive as all get out here at the pet store. That is a great idea though.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

bguardguy said:

@Piggy_B I see what you are saying. However, the Walmart brand does not say Timothy only on the packaging. It is a Hay and Pellet combo that is also vitamin and mineral enriched. Meaning that it will have other ingredients in there as well. I don't see how having alfalfa being the second listed ingredient is interperted as misleading as long as it is not saying that Timothy is the only ingredient.

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If you'd read what I'd posted earlier, it's not Walmart brand & I bought it at Meijers. Bpatters responded appropriately with how high the calcium content is in this particular formula & advising me with a diet. Thanks for responding, but I already said that I would be looking for a new pellet. Pretty sure that I'm going to with the Oxbow Science Diet since it has a lower min. CA content than the regular Oxbow pellets. And I have one pig.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Piggy_B said:

If you'd read what I'd posted earlier, it's not Walmart brand & I bought it at Meijers. Bpatters responded appropriately with how high the calcium content is in this particular formula & advising me with a diet. Thanks for responding, but I already said that I would be looking for a new pellet. Pretty sure that I'm going to with the Oxbow Science Diet since it has a lower min. CA content than the regular Oxbow pellets. And I have one pig.

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The Essentials actually have a lower min Ca content, but the two foods have the same max. However, the Natural Science diet doesn't use limestone. I might look into switching as well if I can get it a decent price. I'll to check and see if that's one of the products I can through school. Let me know how you like them!

ETA: Wahoo! It's one of the products I can get but only as a 4 lb bag. Guess I'll make the switch when I get low on the current pellets.

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

Piggy_B said:

If you'd read what I'd posted earlier, it's not Walmart brand & I bought it at Meijers. Bpatters responded appropriately with how high the calcium content is in this particular formula & advising me with a diet. Thanks for responding, but I already said that I would be looking for a new pellet. Pretty sure that I'm going to with the Oxbow Science Diet since it has a lower min. CA content than the regular Oxbow pellets. And I have one pig.

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Sorry about that. Rest assured that I did read all the posts in this thread. Not once did I see anything about Meijers, so sorry if I was confused. I did a search for the brand of pellets you described and the first link I found had Walmart selling them. I could not remember seeing any other brand small animal food at Walmart so I just assumed that it was Walmart brand and that you had bought it from there. I agree bpatters did respond fantastically, he knows a ton about guinea pigs and is always willing to help. Sorry if you found my advice unhelpful. I realize that you had said that you were looking for a new pellet, which is why I agreed with you and said that maybe it was indeed better to look for a new pellet to avoid the worry of keeping the same. Also, sorry about the mixup between the number of pigs you have. Generally I type either piggies as a plural form or piggies in possessive form and leave off the ' mark. I did however once respond with I hope your piggies are okay, not sure if I meant that I thought you had multiple or if I am just used to typing it that way. Once again though, I really hope that your questions have been answered and that you get your piggies calcium deposits figured out and under control. My posts were meant to be helpful and not a hindrance, it seems that they might have been interpreted differently though. Sorry about that. >___<

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

@bguardguy I am sorry that I snapped at you earlier. It was at a chaotic moment and I think I took my frustration out on you. :embarrassed: Thank you for responding at all & trying to be helpful. I'm sorry for being rude. Forgive me?

Re: Okay, Piggy Experts, Is this considered "gritty" & and is it serious?

No harm done. It's all good. If I got offended that easily by what you said then maybe the Internet is not for me. Lol.