Stones Some qts about bladder stones, surgery, recurrence

1) I'm not going to comment on the actual surgery as I haven't had to go through with it,my pig was able to pass her stone and has been stone free for months. Hopefully a member with more surgery experience will comment. All I know is that he will need to be segregated in a small hospital cage afterwards, usually with white fleece/towels/puppy pee pads to monitor bleeding and the cage will need to be changed frequently. Pigs can have a difficult time with anesthetic but he isn't too old and if you have an experienced vet there's a better chance that things will go smoothly rather than badly. I would have unflavored pedialyte and critical care on hand for recovery in case hes not eating well or if he needs extra fluids.

2) diet modification seems to be the best preventative, it isn't a sure bet as pigs do form stones even with low calcium diets but it seems to help the most. My sow had a stone and since passing it and being on a modified diet she has been stone free for almost 9 months. I personally do not pay real attention to Ca ratio and instead keep calcium at an absolute minimum, I also keep their diet very constant.

I would suggest feeding KMS pellets or none at all. All other brands have calcium carbonate in them. Be sure he's not having high calcium veggies, NO: parsely, kale, spinach, collard greens, dandelion, clover and other high calcium stuff. Also avoid romaine lettuce and cilantro. Be sure they aren't getting any alfalfa, if you feed Timothy possibly consider orchard grass as it's slightly lower in calcium. What do you currently feed (hay, pellets, veggies and how many of each thing)?

I also would not soak their hay... moist hay not only can stink but it can encourage fungus growth if its not eaten right away. Instead soak their veggies.

Here's just a rund down of what my girls get. They have KMS timothy pellets, they do not get the recommended 1/8th of a cup per day. With that amount they were still leaving white spots. Instead i feed them 6-8 pellets as a treat per day. The get demineralized water from the grocery store. You want to find jugs of demineralized water by reverse osmosis. Not distilled and not plain spring water. They get unlimited orchard grass hay. For veggies every day each pig gets: red or green leaf lettuce, 1/4 of a medium green pepper (ocassionally they get a different colored pepper), 2 cucumber wheels, a baby carrot, 2 cherry tomatoes and sometines they get radicchio or belgian endive. This diet has been successful for me, mine also get a couple supplements, every day they get an oxbow urinary support hay tab and an oxbow daily C tab (NOTE: the new oxbow natural science hay tabs are high in calcium and I do not recommend them).

3) I don't believe there is much evidence of those medications being effective, I would read different threads over at guinealynx but keep in mind some of them are old or they may be out dated. From what I know, not enough is known about calcium metabolism in guinea pigs and there is likely a VERY strong genetic component in stone formation. In my opinion, the perscriptions are not needed but you may find other owners with varying opinions.

4) there is no way to know. Some pigs will reform stones within 2-3 weeks meanwhile some pigs will go their entire lives without reforming another one.

I had quite a few stone pigs in the beginning but haven't had any in several years. I'm going to tell you what I've done that's worked for me, for a very large herd, but I encourage you to research for yourself and form your own opinions before taking my or anyone's advice. Remember that anything anyone says here shouldn't be taken as gospel, as most everything with guinea pig care is at best, a guess. There's no real science to piggy care.

I had several stone pigs, and one pig, Oreo, was pretty representative of them all, so I'll mention his story. Oreo was under a year when he developed his first stone, which I had removed, then tried a perfect (as asserted by folks here and elsewhere) CA ratio, changed pellets, etc. He developed more stones 3 months later, had another surgery, then I changed everything so that his calcium intake in general was very, very low.

His recovery from that second surgery was slow, and I wished I hadn't put him through it. He lost weight, he was not a happy pig. Then, two months later, more stones, another surgery. He died in the middle of the night from the trauma and I would never put another small animal through repeated surgeries like that again. They can't recover, and I did it for myself more than him. Shameful. In hindsight I'd not even have done that second surgery.

I tried a couple medications too. The simple truth seems to be that once a pig is prone to stones, he's prone to stones, and it's a matter of luck if they return or not.

So, now, several years and a few dozen pigs later (I maintain a large herd) I've not had another stone pig and I feed more or less unlimited pellets, don't give a thought to the "proper" CA ratio, and feed - often - alfalfa and higher calcium veggies like parsley.

For me, the answer is simple ... calcium carbonate. A ridiculously high percentage of stones in pigs are calcium carbonate, so, after some research on stones in other herbivores I opted to do an experiment, where I eliminated calcium carbonate completely from their diet. This was no easy feat, as nearly all pellet food for small animals contains calcium carbonate. BUT, I found a local pellet that doesn't have it and have fed it without issue for years now. Every bit of research I did led me to the conclusion that the plant based calcium in alfalfa and vegetables don't cause a problem for those pigs that are otherwise prone to stones ... calcium carbonate does.

Like I said, I'd strongly urge you to do your own research, but this is the conclusion I've come to and it's worked for me, knock on wood, for too many years for me to believe it's a coincidence that not ONE of my pigs has had a stone or sludge issue since making the switch, while also eating veggies like parsley and alfalfa hay several times a week.

Well, I ended up having to euthanize Rolo. The evening after we discovered the stones, he started producing more blood in his urine and became obviously uncomfortable/painful. I'd seen this last month with the first stone and was sure that he was trying to pass this one as well. I called the vet and moved his surgery up to Friday. But Friday morning the vet called me after the surgery and confirmed my fears: the larger of the 2 stones we'd seen on the x-ray was stuck in his urethra and he simply could not get it out, no matter what he tried. Rolo was partially blocked already and the vet felt sure that if we were to let him try to pass it on his own he would eventually become fully blocked. So I left work at noon and went down to the hospital to say goodbye, and had him put to sleep.

I'm very sad to have lost my little friend, but I'm glad I tried the surgery despite my parents' objections. I wouldn't have felt the same if I had done what they suggested and just chose to euthanize an otherwise healthy animal when there was something that could be done. I would rather have had him live, but I feel that I did what I could to protect him from suffering, and that was my ultimate goal.

Thank you very much for your help and advice, and even though I don't have a stone pig anymore, I'm still going to explore how to build a diet to try to prevent stones and the possibility of going pellet-less. I still have a boar (Tribble) that's a little over 3 years old, and I want to learn how to build a stone-prevention diet in case I ever end up with another stone-prone pig in the future as well as to help prevent Tribble from developing stones as much as possible. (He does not seem to have the genetic component that Rolo must have had.) I hope at least that someone else can learn from this thread as I have. Thank you again.

I'm so sorry you lost Rolo.

Paula, how do you feel about KMS Hayloft pellets? They contain a different form of calcium: d-Calcium pantothenate.