Weight Loss normal appetite but feels lighter

[twolittlepiggys]

Hi all
Just a short intro to my pigs, I have two girls, sisters, almost two years old now.
They live in a c&c with fleece and towels as bedding.
Their diet consists of hay (unlimited), cavy cuisine and veg (usually capsicum, celery and tomatoes).
I got the girls from a shelter about 5 months ago.
One of them has been losing some weight, she looks ok but feels lighter to hold. She's also eating, drinking, urinating and defaecating ok.
My first suspicion was malocclusion and I've spoken to a vet at school about that and he'd suggested using an otoscope to look inside her mouth to see if her teeth were overgrown.
I had a thought about this, my thoughts were -
if her teeth were overgrown, then treatment would be a) burring under general anaesthesia, b) diet change - give more hay, but they already HAVE unlimited hay..
so then I was thinking, she's eating okay, wheeks for food and is interested in eating so she's not like losing weight because she's not eating (lower suspicion of malocculusion?? correct me if I'm wrong) and if she's bright and happy then it won't be worth the risk of putting her under general anaesthesia to look at her teeth properly??
Any advice please?

 

[Duffinvt]

Do you weigh her to see if she actually is losing weight? My two older sows, both 3 years old, seems to be thinner than they were, but they continue to weigh the same. Unlimited hay is very important, but also a well-rounded diet of various vegetables as well as occasional fruit. A leaf lettuce like green or red leaf, Romaine, or Bibb, should be a daily staple in their diet, as well as green bell pepper.


Veggie chart by Ly: https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...g-nutrition-charts-poisonous-plants-list.html

 

[twolittlepiggys]

No, I haven't actually weighed her. I think I might get some kitchen scales this week.
I actually do feed them a variety of veg and fruits (ie capsicum I think is equal to your green bell peppers) I feed them at least half a green one or a red one few times a week because its so high in vit c. I use this calculator as it was recommended by one of our lecturers (broken link removed) I make sure I give them at least 100mg vit c in their veg (going by them weighing around 1kg each) I also give them salad mix occasionally, they love baby spinach and rocket I don't actually think there is anything wrong with their diet, they do get enough vit c, and the other piggy is doing just fine. It's just that her being lighter (she used to weigh about the same as her sister but now she feels a bit 'fluffier' and lighter)

 

[HannibalLecter]

Weighing them regularily & recording the weight is really important & it's great that you're planning on doing it. The issue here is that weightloss indeed is a great indicator of illness & is something you then could catch early on & treat, but by the time you can see or feel the weightloss it's often quite far into the illness.

https://www.guinealynx.info/weigh.html

The diet doesn't sound nearly varied enough unfortunately, have you had a look at the diet chart & sample menus?
https://www.guineapigcages.com/foru...g-nutrition-charts-poisonous-plants-list.html

Daily staples are 2 kinds of lettuce - at least two large leaves, 1/4 green or yellow bell pepper, cilantro/coriander, zuccchini. You need to feed these until the pigs eat them, and then add other rotational veggies you don't feed daily.

What pellet are you feeding?

 

[bpatters]

"Feels lighter" is unfortunately not a good weigh (pun intended) to assess your guinea pig. You need to know how much she's lost in relation to where she started to know whether the loss is significant or not. A few grams difference can be put down to how much she ate or didn't eat, but if you see a steady progression of a few grams a day, then she's heading for trouble.

A good scale should cost you less than $20, and you may be able to find one at a resale shop for $5 or so. Please get one and weigh your pigs daily until you can determine if one of them has a problem. Once they're stable, weekly should be often enough.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

I feed cos lettuce occasionally when we eat it ourselves. I do feed 'bell peppers' we call them capsicums in australia. I feed half a capsicum few times a week. I also give them tomatoes, carrots etc. I don't feed iceberg lettuce though because it's too high in water content. They also get the occasional fruit ie oranges, strawberries. They love celery which I give sometimes but it's not high enough in vit c to give by itself. I feed meadow hay because we don't grow timothy hay in australia.
They get adult cavy cuisine pellets.
I was wondering if anyone have any differentials of illness that could have weightloss in a pig but otherwise well, eating (still fights over 'that particular piece of hay *I* wanted' with her sister) and is still bright, alert and responsive. I just want to get an idea of what *could* be wrong so I could have some direction to find out what and if something is wrong...

 

[HannibalLecter]

As I said, the diet doesn't sound varied enough daily. What you feed during a week sound like a days worth of veggies. What do you normally feed on a daily basis?

Read through guinea lynx for information on good vets, correct treatments & deadly ones to avoid, and take your pig to a cavy savvy vet for a general check up.
https://www.guinealynx.info/

 

[twolittlepiggys]

PS. I know I should get some scales to weigh them, maybe tomorrow, its almost midnight here now.
Its just that the top differential for weight loss in a pig is malocclusion, but she's eating ok, and all that. I'd just thought her signalment doesnt fit malocclusion given that her appetite is ok. Anyone know if this is wrong? Like eating ok=the problem is less likely to be malocclusion?

 

[twolittlepiggys]

The piggy doesn't show any signs of scurvy ie vitamin c deficiency. It's not that!
They get veg daily, I use a vitamin c calculator and they each get at least 50mg vitamin c daily.
That's the vet-recommended amount.

 

[HannibalLecter]

That's not what I'm saying, I'm giving you advice on a diet that's not varied enough at all. You need to not only focus on vitamin C. Just like with people, we can't produce our own vitamin C, but we could get other deficiancies - the same with pigs.

It has nothing to do with the pigs weightloss where I'm advicing you to get to a vet soon & not wait for more symptoms.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

*sigh*
They do get a variety of veg, they get what I *can* buy in this small town.
I've already spoken to a vet in class yesterday; he said I could bring her in and put an otoscope in her mouth to see if her teeth were maloccluded. I was just asking if anyone knew of other causes other than malocclusion that could produce the same signs with her signalment.

 

[HannibalLecter]

To clarify, you can't count on that the pigs get all the nutrients they need from 1/8 - 1/4 of pellets. Because they don't, therefore you need to supplement with a good varied fresh veggie diet daily & not only focus on the vitamin C intake. Again, please look in the diet section for the sample menus.

1 kind of leafy green once or twice is not enough unfortunately. Could the vet see anything wrong with the teeth without sedation? Weightloss is a symptom of most illnesses.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

You can't see in properly without sedation, we sedated a pig in clinic when I was there last June, piggy had weight loss, was not eating, had to syringe feed critical care. Vet suspected tooth root abscess but it was just a foreign body. Piggy's owner did this weight log thing which I'm going to try too
What other illnesses are you referring to? thanks

 

[piggypuppylove]

One question, are she and her cage mate getting along? Have you observed them at dinner (veggie) time? It could be that the cage mate is getting most of the fresh stuff leaving this piggy without. I noticed Charlie (one of my pigs) bossing Frank (his cage mate) at dinner time and I solved this by providing to bowls of veggies rather than stuffing everything into one. Just an idea!

 

[bpatters]

twolittlepiggys, you're right that malocclusion and lack of eating go together, but the malocclusion can be fairly far advanced before the lack of eating occurs. One early clue to malocclusion is slanted incisors, and almost always indicates a problem with the molars. Another clue is the inability to eat -- they pick the food up ok, but can't manage to chew and swallow it.

If you have a vet work on her teeth, do NOT let them trim the front teeth short. Many vets (vets usually get little or no training in working on exotics) think their teeth need trimming when they actually don't, and getting them trimmed too short means you're going to have your hands full for a while handfeeding the pig.

Most places will anesthetize a pig to check their teeth -- vets in England don't do it, but pretty much everywhere else they do. One newer trend is just to "whiff" the pigs under -- they give them a light dose of gas anesthetic, check or work on the mouth until the pig begins to wake up, then give them another whiff. It's considered by many to be safer than general anesthesia, and is less likely to cause problems for the pig.

As I understand it, you really can't check the molars well without putting the pig under. They're not at all cooperative about opening their mouths for you to look in, and they've usually got lots of gunky food left over in there. At least one owner I know had her pig's jaw severely dislocated by a vet who didn't know what he was doing during a tooth examination. Molar problems can be elongated roots, abcesses, spurs which make it painful for the pig to eat, or overgrowth which traps the tongue.

Good luck with your piggy. Let us know how she gets on.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

Lol, they do get along, sort of. Actually this piggy that's losing weight is actually the bossy one out of the two.
I did see a problem with only one bowl and already did get them two bowls when I realised that they couldn't get along well at feeding times. But this change to two bowls thing happened a few months ago.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

Ok one more question, sorry I have so many questions.
Would malocclusion that isn't causing loss of appetite (yet) cause subclinical signs like weightloss?
One thing I do know about looking in their mouths is that you have to flush the mouth with water using a syringe before the scope goes in
That piggy that I saw last time had isoflurane gas as anaesthetic (I think the protocol for small animal anaesthesia is just gas without induction agent anyway)
Anaesthetics always carry a risk; that piggy stopped breathing on us for a bit (but turned out ok) I'm not sure I'm willing to risk her getting anaesthetised when she still seems well.. anyone have any opinions on this?

 

[HannibalLecter]

I'm aware of this, but my vet could see almost all the way in & had a quite good view of the molars, with my pig held on her back & with that "ear checking instrument with a light & magnifying glass"- looking tool. In lack of better words.

Illnesses such as a URI, UTI, other infections, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, almost every illness has weightloss connected to it in the beginning. It's so dang frustrating figuring out what's wrong. Perhaps weigh her daily for 2-3 days, If you notice further significant weightloss something clearly isn't right. But I would then worry about anesthesia with a sick pig without a diagnosis. With heart disease it could be a real danger.

 

[twolittlepiggys]

She's not drinking excessively (~100ml between two pigs per day). I know that doesnt rule out a UTI but I would have thought that would be the presenting sign for one..?
The ear thing is an otoscope That's what we used for the client's piggy that time.
I guess I should start by weighing her daily first
Thanks guys i know I don't have an answer yet but this chat was stimulating
I just joined today and I like it!

 

[HannibalLecter]

Yes that's the word! Thanks!
Excessive drinking isn't a sign of a UTI what I'm aware of, but it would rule out a common symptom of diabetes which is a real relief. Do keep us updated.