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Veg*n Vegetarian Children & Pets

cookie_gal

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Chaos and Order, please tell me what evidence you have that it is "biologically natural" for humans to eat meat.

Look at the enzymes we have in our bodies and look at our ancestors!
 

PiggieMamaKelly

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Our digestive enzymes do not support the idea that humans were "meant to" eat meat. Simply because you can digest it, does not mean you're intended to. Known carnivorous animals have strong hydrochloric acid in their stomachs in order to digest meat. Humans have stomach acid that is about 20 times weaker than that. Just like the stomach acid in other known herbivores. The salivary enzymes in humans (amylace) are for breaking down carbohydrates.

As for looking at our ancestors... our ancestors lived on predominantly vegetarian and near-vegetarian diets.
 

wickedrodent

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I know this is a bit old, but I just wanted to share a site that I found. Its a source to buy vegan cat and dog food and they have a great FAQ section for anyone who is interested in learning more about having your pets go vegan..

Vegancats.com
 

Piggersrule

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I believe it is up to the parents to teach their children to eat right,vegetarian or not. In some rare cases it's not upto the parents to make that decision. I just read in the paper that the parents to this child is being brought up on charges and was arrested for endangering the welfare of a child and abuse because they were feeding their child a vegetarian diet. The "Professionals" said the child was under weight and under height for her age. These so called "Professionals" are saying that her growth is stunted because of the lack of meat in her diet. That is such a crock, kids grow at all different rates. If that is the case than my sister-in-laws should have been arrested because her daughter is very small for her age.
 

PiggieMamaKelly

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Do you have a link to the article? I highly doubt it is legal to be charged with child endangerment by feeding your child fruits and vegetables. Probably the child was abused/neglected in some other way and also just happened to be fed a veg diet.
 

Piggersrule

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It was in the paper and I burned it this morning with my garbage. There has to be more to this story than what was said/written. The only thing I can think of is that possibly the child has an illness and the parents are helping her the right way. The article said she is 5 years old and weighs 30 pounds. I hope people don't start stuffing meat down her throat, she won't be able to digest it and will get very sick. There was nothing said about the parents physically abusing her. I can't believe the parents can be arrested for this, it doesn't seem right.
 

Terekins

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Ha! Ridiculous. If they're cracking down on parents contributing to the poor health of their child through the diet they feed them, they should look at the people who's kids are so fat they're suffering from diabetes and high blood pressure. Overfeeding/feeding crap, in my opinion, is child abuse.
 

Piggersrule

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I totally agree Terekins, parents that allow their children to sit all day and play video games and eat junk food while playing should be brought up on charges of neglect and endangerment. I can't believe how many kids these days are sooo over weight.
 

xDanix

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Piggersrule, this article is about a child who died in Italy? If it is the same that I read some time ago, the child was sick because the parents didn´t want to take her to the doctor or give her any medications or vitamin supplies. They were against modern medicine, so they refused to give her any treatment she needed.

But, of course, the media had to blame vegetarianism...the newspaper I read told that she was sick because she was fed with the "milk of her vegetarian mother" and became weak with lack of nutrients. And that the parents didn´t want to take her to the doctor or give drugs because they were "vegetarian and didn´t believe in modern medicine".
And I want to know who told the reporter that vegetarians don´t believe in medicine...
The little girl died because her parents were stupid. They let her die, when they knew they had to take her to the doctor. It was not because she was vegetarian. And now, everybody blame vegetarianism, because that was the parents´diet.
 

Piggersrule

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That wasn't the story I read. This one was local in the United States, I can't remember where though.
 

corie dora

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Hi I'm new here, just thought I'd jump in, and add my .02 since my family is octo-lavo vegetarian.

We have one four year old son, and yes, he's octo-lavo as well. He was essentially vegan for his first two years (not including breastmilk), as he had reacted to both egg and cow's dairy early on so we held off on those. He's fine with eggs now and goat and sheep dairy products.(all our eggs and dairy come from a free-range family operated organic farms)

We don't FORCE our son to be vegetarian any more than an omnivorous family forces their children to eat meat!!! He eats what we eat, because well, that's what we cook!! If, when he's older, he chooses to eat meat, he can go right ahead. He's not cooking it in my kitchen though, I don't want the bacterial/contamination risk in my home thanks! Hopefully if he ever chooses that, he'll choose to do it in as responsible a manner as possible. Of course, he WILL most certainly learn where meat comes from, and we've already started to educate him in that area.

We do have to adjust his diet a little from ours by adding a little more efa's as children have a higher requirement for fats than do adults. We do this by just adding a little hemp or flax oil to his plate before serving, putting in an extra scoop of hemp protein powder in his smoothie, spreading the nut butter a little thicker on his sandwich...you get the picture.

Beacause I and my husband have beeen vegetarian for so long (about 21 yrs for me), eating healthily is second nature. Instead of eating by the 'four' food groups, we have 6: fruits and veggies, grains, proteins, fats, superfoods and living foods.

My extended family is primarily vegetarian as well. I ate some meat as a kid, but not very often, and learned how to balance meatless meals from day 1.

Since we don't seek any 'professional' nutritional counselling, we get bloodwork done annually for us, and twice a year for our son to see that we have enough iron, calcium, folate ect. available in our bodies. Last time we checked, we were all 'off the scale' so to speak, having more of these nutrients than the average omnivore has. We take no supplements, and our son just eats a simple multi each day.

As well, our son is also in the 95th growth percentile for height and weight, is above average in his intellectual abilities for his age, and has rarely been ill.

We're fortunate that for the most part we don't get any flack from anyone about it, its pretty accepted where we live, there are a LOT of vegetarians here (ontario) and several vegetarian restaurants, even vegan, organic and raw in our city.

Also, our ped is Indian, and in India, it is normal for people to eat a primarily vegetarian diet as many folks cannot afford meat very often, so he's really supportive and thinks that all his patients should be more or less veggie.

For anyone looking for excellent info on raising vegetarian babies, check out the book "Vegetarian Baby" by Sharon Yntema. Very very well written, with recipes recommended by the WHO. The bible for any vegetarian family :)

:)

Corie Dora =^..^=
 

Terekins

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Cori Dora, I'm so glad to hear that there are a lot of vegetarians in Ontario! I currently live in Halifax, but am hoping to attend Queens University for grad school, which is in Kingston On. Although there are 2 vegetarian restaurants in Halifax, and I can find most of everything I need at the Superstore for cooking, I don't find this to be a very vegetarian-friendly city. I don't often meet other vegetarians, although I know they must be out there, and it can be very difficult to find anything to eat at regular restaurants--it seems like they're actually trying to put meat into as many things on the menu that they can, even salads usually have meat in them. I will often ask to have meat left out, and I always feel like a bother. A lot of times I end up having french fries and vegetable soup when we go out! Thanks for the great info.
 

HowietheGreat

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I think it truly comes down to the health and well being of the child. Yes, there is currently a story circulating in the United States because a infant died from being placed on a vegan diet. I do not yet know the details, if anyone does-please share. If the child or infant can be healthy on a vegan/vegatarian diet then I say go for it. If the pediatrician states that the current died of the child is harming he or she then yes, I see it as neglect. The same goes for parents feeding there children fast food (hamburgers) everyday and there children are obese. It is neglect. It is all about the health of the child. I am a vegatarian but I would follow the doctor's advice. The same would go if I was pregnant (which I am not) and for some reason I had to eat meat (highly unlikely but this just a radical example) or my unborn child was to suffer health problems- I would force myself to eat free range meat. I would hate it, but at that point it isn't about my beliefs. It is about protecting the life that I was carrying, that couldn't protect itself. There are sacrifices in having children. Once they are mature enough to make an educated choice, then I think they should. One would hope they would choose cruelty free, but that isn't guaranteed. As long as the child is healthy, I say feed them whichever way you see fit, but be prepared for the alternative if it is needed.
 
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HowietheGreat

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Watch the french fries- they aren't always vegatarian because of what they are cooked in.
-I also meant to say diet-not died in the above entry.
 

merrycat

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Just wanted to chime in for a moment about vegetarian diets and children. Where my family originally came from (India), and specifically the in region we come from, many, if not most people are vegetarian to varying degrees. Some have eggs and dairy, and others no animal products at all. And you know what? There's no difference between the vegan/vegetarian kids and the non-vegetarian ones. If you didn't know which was which, there'd be no way to tell them apart. The vegetarians clearly getting more than enough protien from the their diet. As far as I know, their families aren't taking any supplements or doing anything special to make sure that their kids keep up with the "normal diet" kids.

So yeah, the whole "vegan diets are bad for kids" thing is a total crock. What's bad for kids is tonnes of proccessed foods full of sugar, salt, preservatives and goodness knows what else.
 

xDanix

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Corie, I was so glad to read your post! That´s exactly the way I want to raise my kids, if I have them someday.
Congratulations.
 

xDanix

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I found another article about other child that died because the parents were negligent:

Vegan parents guilty in infant murder
6-week-old died of starvation after being fed diet of soy milk, apple juice

By BETH WARREN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/02/07

The parents of a baby that died of starvation after being fed a vegan diet have been found guilty of malice murder, felony murder and first degree cruelty to children.

Jade Sanders, 27, and Lamont Thomas, 31, will get an automatic life sentence for the death of their 6-week-old infant, Crown. After being fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice, he weighed only 3 1/2 pounds when he died.

The Fulton County jury deliberated the case for about seven hours.
Prosecutors said it was a chilling case of murder by starvation, a painful and prolonged death. Attorneys representing Sanders and Thomas told jurors the first-time parents did the best they could while adhering to their vegan lifestyle. Vegans typically live free of animal products.

"They're not vegans, they're baby killers," Fulton prosecutor Mike Carlson told the jury Tuesday during his closing arguments.

The couple's attorneys said they didn't realize their baby, born at home, was in danger until minutes before he died.

One thing I want to say about that:
If the kid was 6-week-old, he should have been only breast fed. The mother´s milk should never be replaced by any other thing, unless the mother or the kid has a problem and a doctor recommends a replacement. Why wasn´t he fed with his mother´s milk? I just can´t believe that his mother could be so dumb at the point to think that breast feeding is not vegan!
And how a mother or a father doesn´t see that her/his own baby is dying? It´s unbelievable. If my guinea pig or my chinchilla are acting a little different I get all concerned about them. Imagine my own child! I´m so shocked about this article.
I really believe that we should raise our kids as vegetarians or vegans, but of course they have to be fed properly!
 

corie dora

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Ummm DUH!!!

That story of the baby dying obviously has NOTHING to do with vegetarianism. The author has sensationalized it for the reader. They could have just as easily said that the parents were black, or that they had curly hair, and they didn't properly care for their newborn and it died. I hope somebody throws the book at those people. Of course, babies need their mothers milk or they die, fact of life.

I think its just a matter of societal acceptance. I mean, the WHO has said its perfectly fine to assume a vegetarian diet for the complete human life cycle, pregnancy, breastfeeding, infancy, children....its just that a few of our modern societies have not yet accepted it.

Terekins, I'm sure you'll find LOTS of veggies in Kingston! From what I understand there are quite a few little burgeoning intentional communities out that way, and towards Ottawa full of treehuggers, social activists, granola crunchers, homeschoolers and the likes. :)

Corie =^..^=
 

Maisiepaisie

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So yeah, the whole "vegan diets are bad for kids" thing is a total crock. What's bad for kids is tonnes of proccessed foods full of sugar, salt, preservatives and goodness knows what else.
My thoughts exactly. And if people ate a proper balanced diet including sources of all the essential daily nutrients there wouldn't be room for junk food and when I say junk food I also mean meat, dairy and eggs. I've done a lot of research into nutrition since I went vegan over 2 years ago and I would never have fed non-vegan food to my kids if I'd known what I know now. Its unnatural and very unhealthy for humans to eat animal products. Don't believe it? Them take a look at this.

The only reason most of us think its normal to eat animal products is because the meat and dairy industry are such a powerful body that they have an enormous brainwashing influence on our society. They even fund the nutritional aspect of doctors training so you can imagine how biased that will be.

Of course its possible to eat a junk food vegan diet and go short on nutrients but a healthy, well balanced vegan diet is the healthiest diet for any human being. When I see people feeding their kids meat and dairy products I cringe because I see it as child abuse. Most parents would never knowingly feed their children a harmful diet but through ignorance, many are. You can send off for some excellent information leaflets on vegan nutrition from Viva. These are also available in the UK and Poland by selecting your country from the drop down menu.
 

HowietheGreat

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What is disturbing is that they weren't concerned that their baby only weighed a little over 3 pounds. That is just so sad. Why wouldn't they have consulted their doctor (sound as though they didn't use one) about feeding their baby a vegan diet? Why didn't they seek guidance? It is just so horrifying. Yes, the articule is written to a certain audience, but the fact that the child was so under weight is a fact that can't be dismissed. I do not think ignorance is an excuse for the death of a child.
 
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