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This goes too far...

citronsoul

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https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4342183.stm

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/3947375.stm

A petrol bomb and death threats have been delivered to staff at a guinea pig farm and to the owners' family.

I support rescues. I don't support medical testing on animals, or breeding them for that purpose. But I think the stuff that this family has gone through is disgusting. I think this gives a bad name to anyone that actually takes animal rights seriously. Where does one draw the line?
 

Slap Maxwell

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I support animal rights. I do not support extremists in ANYTHING. Esspecially religion and politics.
 

Sabriel

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That's going to do the excact opposite of what they want. It's just going to make them look like the bad guy and now nobody will take them seriously.

That's just a horrible thing to do. There are much better ways to accomplish what they want without hurting anyone.
 

mncavylover

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Stupid, stupid violent people. Not the way to get things done. This just makes us all look like freakish people, just like peta sometimes does. Crap.

I'm not for violence to get things done. I think that peaceful protesting is a much better solution.
 

DocDolittle

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I'm sorry, but this kind of thing is what makes people think that animal rights activists are jokes. It does nothing good. Go ahead, have a massive sit-in outside of Petco. Boycott products. Do whatever, but violence isn't the answer. Yeah, I get PO'd when I see or hear about all of these scientists testing animals and Petco letting their small animals die, but not so mad that I would actually try to kill someone. Geez, what's wrong with people these days?

On a lighter note, it's nice to see that other people care about guinea pigs. Just not in that particular way.
 
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fawnmarie

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Yes - this is exactly the kind of thing that makes people think animal rights activists are nutjobs.

NOT that they treat animals like people.

But they treat animals BETTER than people.

They will be taken more seriously when they treat ALL creatures well.
 

RubyPiggie2

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That is DISGUSTING. It really does give animal right activists a bad name.
 

Peaches

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THis is so stupid. What is stealing a person's remains going to prove or do? What a way to make people NOT want to back your cause.
 

Access

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"The incidents are believed to be the work of animals rights extremists."
I don't see any evidence of this, not from reading the article at least. IMO the quoted statement above is just pure conjecture. People assume things, but that doesn't mean it's true until it's proven... in the case of criminal acts, it must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

The missing body could be the work of animals or just bad karma.

A 'petrol bomb' might simply be an exposed gas can of diesel fuel that someone forgot or inadvertently left lying around. For farm equipment or vehicles driven around a farm, you typically carry a container of some extra fuel in case you run out while in the fields. The container can fall off the tractor inadvertently or somesuch.

The threatening letters could be faked by the family in an attempt to stigmatize peaceful protesters.

The article mentioned no concrete evidence that it was done by 'animal rights extremists' or such, it's just shoddy reporting, nothing else.
 

miskaffon

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Access, are you saying that the theft of a loved one's remains and bombs are a justified way for groups to protest? Or that no animal rights extremists exist?

My impression is that you are denying that there are no extremists out there, and that police investigation is not justified in the case of the missing remains, threats, and bomb scare.

Simply put, if you would be willing to make fun of, and deny the existence of, true extremists I wonder if you would be happy to see bombs actually go off, and see people and the animals we all love killed in the throes of a crazed "protest". You frighten me in that regard, very much...
 

Sabriel

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I think he is saying that there is no proof yet. The media can stretch things a bit. Heck I had to do a whole project on that in high school. I think he's trying to say innocent untill proven guilty. Let's se what the police have to say.

But I'm not Access, so I can't say for sure. That's just what I got out of his/her post.
 

miskaffon

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That may be true; I was going more on the "spirit" of what I felt behind the words, and that can be very dangerous using the typing medium. I can't hear what they are saying and see the non-verbals; and it is true the allegations are not yet proven.

Still, I hope that no one ever implies that it is "ok" to rob someone's grave, threaten to blow the rest of the family up, and threaten the rest of their animals just because they don't agree with raising them...
 
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laura220

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But it was probably irresponsible back breeding anyhow. It is wrong for people to harass families like that though.
 

Access

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miskaffon said:
My impression is that you are denying that there are no extremists out there, and that police investigation is not justified in the case of the missing remains, threats, and bomb scare.
???
Logically, I'm not able to follow this statement.
"you are denying that [there are no extremists out there]"

[there are no extremists out there] is a false statement.

If one denies this, then one must assume the opposite, that there are extremists 'out there'.

So, by assuming that there are extremists 'out there':

How would that make police investigating the incedent(s) not justified? The point of having police, in a civlised society at least, is to protect the law-abiding citizenry.
 

miskaffon

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"[there are no extremists out there] is a false statement."
Really?
In your original post, it lead me to believe you felt there weren't extremists in the works, and that claims to there being animal rights extremists could all be explained away by conspiracy theories....

That was my point.

I don't see the benefit of ridiculing my statement. You were simply attacking my rather obvious point in order to discredit me.

Personally, I feel there is likely enough evidence to at least investigate the incident, not just write it off as happenstance (some sort of animal action or karma??!! give me a friggin' break) and conspiracy by the gp breeders to implicate animal rights groups.

BTW, what happened to the body could not possibly be karma; karma does not dig up bodies!!!

YOU are the one implying the police shouldn't be investigating this, by the way! NOT me. YOU are implying that any action done against animal breeders is simply them trying to get attention...

Blah blah blah....

I look forward to reading what really happened in this case. Despite crazy people who think there are conspiracies by cavy breeders willing to make threats against themselves, and highly educated animals who dig up and hide specific people. Just thinking about the highly educated animals makes me laugh.....thanks Access!
 

miskaffon

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ps, I have to think there would be sufficient evidence, since there WERE arrests in this case. If the animal rights groups didn't want to be implicated, I would think they would stop protesting this family's farm; rather fishy in my opinion, that they continued to protest until asked not to by the investigators.

Please, the rest of the group; I support animal rights in their peaceful form. I have to admit that I don't agree with all stances made by all groups regarding animal activities. I have even read articles by some who claim that sharing our lives with animals in our homes is cruel in and of itself. Still, I respect that others have a different view from mine.

However, when I read things about animals who could be digging up human remains?? Um, that just makes me wonder about the state of the human animal.
 

Access

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miskaffon said:
YOU are the one implying the police shouldn't be investigating this, by the way! NOT me. YOU are implying that any action done against animal breeders is simply them trying to get attention...
I never said any of these things, you are assuming way too much. Stop attacking someone over conjecture.

I feel that we should not assume a crime until one is proven. Of course there is reason to suspect there may be a crime here, hence the need for a police investigation. But our society is built on the notion that a crime _must_ be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (vs., say, the "napoleanic code"). I agree with this, that we as people should not assume the worst in people based on conjecture. We should assume people are decent until proven otherwise, proven beyond a 'reasonable doubt'.

I meant 'Karma' in the sense that what goes around comes around, ie. one who defiles the earth may find that it (the earth) defiles them. This circular notion is one of the basis for some philosophies.

My former post is not an attack on you, it's just utter confusion resulting from this sentence. "My impression is that you are denying that there are no extremists out there, and that police investigation is not justified in the case of the missing remains, threats, and bomb scare." A reasonable person can't 'deny there are no extremists' (ie. admit there are extremists) and then say that, with all the evidence, an investigation is not justified.
 

miskaffon

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Whatever...as the heading states, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

You were implying an investigation wasn't justified, not me. I guess you can't read, though...Oh, well. No skin off my back.

You have provided some sick entertainment, though! Thanks!

Sadly, I can't feel entertained by your attitude regarding someone's remains being defiled and stolen. As if some karma or animals had anything to do with an intentional theft. Right.
 
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