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YK Shepherd

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Last one Pedigree

Ingredients:
Rice, Ground Corn, Chicken By Product Meal, Corn Germ Meal, Ground Wheat, Animal Fat (preserved with BHA/BHT), Natural Poultry Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Dried Milk Protein, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Dried Egg Product, Calcium Carbonte, Potassium Chloride, Sunflower Oil (source of Linoleic Acid), Vitamins (Choline Chloride, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (source of Vitamin E), l-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Trace Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Potasium Iodide, Copper Sulfate).



#2 corn
#3 by product
#4 more corn just for good measure
 

YK Shepherd

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Absolute last thing on dog food promise. For anyone with a dog this is a chart unbiased, put out listing foods that were tested for the euthanasia drug. There are many containing it so I am just posting the link if you are interested you can look.

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/dfchart.htm


Also no matter what you feed your dog I will never bash you, never tell you that you are wrong. You feed what you want to feed it is your business not mine. I only posted out of interest not for an arguement of who feeds better. I fed Ol Roy for years and thought my dogs did great on it until I switched to better and found out the difference. If anyone wants to continue this discussion fell free to PM, me. Not going to argue at all though because I am a peaceful person and I enjoy good conversation and learning espically about piggies because I really have no knowledge on them at all.



Also, beef is very upsetting to many dog stomachs, and is usually a sign of a low quality food.

Can be upsetting but I feed my dog raw previously frozen beef ribs and there are no issues at all. It is very good for them and he gets alot of raw previously frozen beef. Very good food for a dog, I did however have hugh stomach problems and the trots with feeding pork products. Chicken, turkey no problems. It depends on the dog some have hugh problems others none.
 

C&K

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Hi Yk,

Not to argue, but I would not get too hung up on the fact that a food has a "by product" in it. You really have to look at the whole list, and the order in which they fall. They may not be as healthy as pure meat, or a meat meal, but they are much better then any bone meal, and to the best of my knowledge, I thought by product meant parts we dont normally consume, like certain organs and such, which are often very nutrient rich. I would strongly disagree that Alpo from the list is better then Iams or Eukanuba, beef is very hard on many dogs, and there is no pure meat or meat meal until you get to the #5 ingredient. I don't think that beef bone meal or beef tallow is better for any dog then chicken byproduct meal, which was number two for Eukanuba, and backing up Chicken for #1. In Iams it was #4, but pure chicken was #1. Perhaps we agree to disagree, I don't have a dog right now, and I have not done any hard research in this for 5 years, but the fact that alpo has to put cheese flavouring in it I think says it all.

Anyway, it was nice talking to you about this, I hope that we have not confused Slap too much :) Have a nice night.

Added:

Can be upsetting but I feed my dog raw previously frozen beef ribs and there are no issues at all. It is very good for them and he gets alot of raw previously frozen beef. Very good food for a dog, I did however have hugh stomach problems and the trots with feeding pork products. Chicken, turkey no problems. It depends on the dog some have hugh problems others none.

It does depend on the dog, however a lot of dogs are upset by beef, so much so that I can't think of one top dog food company that uses it in their brands, let alone their signature brand.

As for any raw meat, I personally think this too can be a little risky, as any raw meat can carry parasites and we know what they can do to us, so for many dogs the same holds true. I think the key though is common sense and exposure the dog has to it. I know you would not give your dog a rotting bone, and he has had constant exposure to them, so he probably has an immunity to such things. It is like how most people from the US or Canada can't go to mexico and drink the water :) In other words, if you have a 9 year old dog who never had raw meat in his life, now is probably not the time to introduce it.

Also, the meat on the bones I am guessing does not consist of the majority of his diet, it is a side food and a treat, which probably means it limits digestive upset. Some people can be so ignorant, I remember a lady in a corner store laughing that she gave her dog peperoni sticks as a treat routinely and then had to keep him outside afterwards because he would get the runs.
 
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YK Shepherd

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Forgot to answer your questions sorry

And isnt Kirkland the namebrand for Costco? Which is basically a grocery standard? I have looked over the Kirkland dog food label recently because we where thinking about getting a dog, and it did look pretty good, but I would not say that it is better then the top three listed above...

Yes it is and it use to be junk now it is good may go back to junk so read the bag each time, I do!

As for By product meal, my understanding was it is fine, and actually a good ingredient to see in the number 2 or 3 spot. Infact, a good amount of by products can be better then plain "meat" as the first because it is more condensed, often dehydrated, and it isn't garbage, it is just parts that we would not normally eat. What is garbage is bone meal, which is basically what it sounds like...

Bone meal is not too bad, it is bone, what would be better is buying actually bones with meat attached like leg bones, knuckle bones ribs etc and feeding those.

By product is the beaks and feet and such that no one would eat and it can even be pets that have been euthanized and ground up for dog food. Sad but true. I would never feed anything with by products in it. I would only feed food with true meat in it and only if it is in the top three ingredients preferrably #1.

I am not fighting here just voicing an opinion. In the end it is the person who is feeding the dog who decides what to buy. I will never ever absh someoen for what they feed, nor will I belittle in any way. On a dog forum you might here the words abuse when associated with some of these foods but not by me. I started feeding Science Diet and others and my dogs did fine; they just did better on a higher quality. I regularily get bashed for only feeding 1/2 raw but that is all I can afford so I do the best I can for my dog and I am sure that is what everyone does for their loved pet. I appreciate the chance to voice my opinion and I am sorry I ahve nothing else productive to add to this thread so therefore I will leave it for the rest to discuss and decide on their own. Anyone wanting any further info PM me and I will ask my nutritionalist because this is the extent of my knowledge.
:heart: Peace to all
 

C&K

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I have appreciated talking with you, I don't think you are arguing, just voicing an opinion, and as I said, I don't think I am any more educated then you, just perhaps under a slightly different school of thought, which in all truth, may not even be current.

I just think that bone meal listed as number two is not a good sign when it is the main source of meat in the whole bag, as in Alpo. the other brands may have by products, but they also have other more solid meat forms to stand on. I think it is interesting what you had to say about by products, my grandparents used to eat chicken feet however, so perhaps they have more neutrients then bone meal, perhaps not, I really don't know, but just because it sounds gross, I am not ready to dismiss it, although I certainly agree no food should stand alone on these, but eukanuba had Chicken as the primary ingredient, not corn, which has no value. *sigh* It is all so confusing.

As for raw meat diets, it just seems like a bad idea unless you are really up on what exactly to feed, as dogs are not carnivorous, and I have even heard it argued that carnivors need veggies too, they usually just get it from the stomachs of the animals they eat, partially digested. *yuck* I can only asume that those on raw meat diets must also give a certain amount of veggies, but personally, I would feel more confident leaving this mix and consistancy up to the animal feed experts with a premium quality food... It is just a matter of making sure you can identify which is a premium food... Also the whole raw meat thing just seems like a parasite heaven. The odd treat sure, but over half the diet? I know if I ate that much raw meat, I would get sick. I am sure that for many of the vegitarians on board, thinking about eating any raw meat is enough to make them sick ;)

Again, it was nice talking to you;

I hope all this helps anyone with dog food questions, although I don't think anyone actually asked! lol. oh well.

Amanda
 

Sabriel

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Wow, what do you people feed your cats (if you have any)? I was looking for similar info on cats and I didn't turn up much. I switched from Iams to Purina Pro Plan Extra Care: Hairball Management Formula. It's the only thing Shampoo will keep down right now. Switching feed and and keeping hay out of her reach, but giving her access to fresh cat grass seems to help. That and I couldn't keep feeding them Iams knowing the abuse it took to make that kibble.

Though sometimes a cat's stomach will dictate what you feed them. My MIL's blind seven toed cat will only keep Iams down. Nothing else. They almost had to put him down he was so sick, then they switched him to Iams and suddenly he can keep a meal in his belly. Now he's very fat as he always had an upset tummy and didn't want to eat that much. He eats like a horse now. He's so fat that he has to prop himself up on the couch to groom. It's actually really pathetic to watch him groom. Being blind he's not a very active cat either.
 

YK Shepherd

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Just in case someone does read this and decides to go for the raw method. It is not just meat.

There are many raw reciepes out there but I do not feed strat raw I feed 1/2 and 1/2. Here is my raw reciepe that I feed:

2 peeled bannas cut thin
2 sliced carrots [raw] cut super thin
2 eggs shells and all
1 apple peeled, core removed and cut thin
1 peeled and diced tiny potato
couple of spoons of pumpkin

I mix it all together and then I give 1/2 cup on each meal with 2/3 cup of kibble.

He gets one rib bone each day with whatever meat is on it and the occasional beef, chicken or whatever I have. No pork. My meat is previously frozen for a minumum of one week to kill off any parasites because they are there and they can kill or make doggy very sick.

I do not want someone to say oh yeah I'll feed table food and the dog will be healthier because that is not true.

I also sub the potatoe for rice or pasta on occasion too, these are both cooked and he loves the rice the best.
 

YK Shepherd

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Sabriel said:
Wow, what do you people feed your cats (if you have any)? I was looking for similar info on cats and I didn't turn up much. I switched from Iams to Purina Pro Plan Extra Care: Hairball Management Formula. It's the only thing Shampoo will keep down right now. Switching feed and and keeping hay out of her reach, but giving her access to fresh cat grass seems to help. That and I couldn't keep feeding them Iams knowing the abuse it took to make that kibble.

Though sometimes a cat's stomach will dictate what you feed them. My MIL's blind seven toed cat will only keep Iams down. Nothing else. They almost had to put him down he was so sick, then they switched him to Iams and suddenly he can keep a meal in his belly. Now he's very fat as he always had an upset tummy and didn't want to eat that much. He eats like a horse now. He's so fat that he has to prop himself up on the couch to groom. It's actually really pathetic to watch him groom. Being blind he's not a very active cat either.


Sorry cats I know nothing about and have never researched at all!
 

Sabriel

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Well, my cat stopped leaving us "presents". I am happy for now.
 

C&K

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The diet you listed sounds very interesting YK... So today I learned about Plonkers and dog diets... amazingly productive :)

Sabriel: I feed my cat Iams, however I won't be anymore after the info Slap passed along. Pretty much the same for dogs holds true for cats, you want cats to have meat as the primary ingredients on the food, however for cats it is even more so, because they actually are carnivors. (SP?) I know some stuff like meow mix hardly has anything but filler in it. I would really recommend talking to a vet about exactly what your food options are, however the most important thing is to find something she can keep down. My sister lost a cat recently at 6 years of age because she would not keep anything down for the longest time, and then stopped eating altogether. E0ventually her liver shut down. She brought the cat to one vet early on, and after $300 they could not say what was wrong. Then, later on she went again, but0 it was too late to repair the damage, the vet told her then that if a cat does not get anything into them for more then 3 days, they will start to suffer from irreversible damage, so the saying that the animal will eat when hungry and not to worry is not true at all. Like guineas, sometimes cats need to be forcefed.

However, since your cat is eating and not completely off food right now, this does not really apply, and I would not change the food without a very solid plan as this will probably do more harm then good. If you do ever change the food, you need to gradually switch it over, mixing the two together with increasing amounts of your new food for as long as 8 weeks.

One trick I have heard of to help with hairballs if they become problematic again is to put plain vaseline on its paws, they can't stand it, and so they lick it off, and the vaseline is non toxic, however has hairball desolving properties.
 

Percy's Mom

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My cats eat Purina One Salmon and Tuna formula. I've tried other things, but the oldest cat won't eat anything else. I decided that even if it's not the absolute best, it's certainly not the worst cat food, and I'd rather he eat than starve. The younger cat would eat anything I put in front of her.
 

Sabriel

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Actually, one of the reason I picked Pro Plan was the ingredients. No corn in it! It also lists chicken as the first ingredient, followed by brewer's rice, the chicken by product which actually may not be beaks and feet. I worked in a meat processing plane. We shipped chopped up bones, whole bones, meat scaps (when we coulden't sell them), badly cut chicken wings, skin (when we didn't sell it), carcasees (when we didn't sell those) and the drippings from a line that processes soy injected chicken to the rendering plant. The rendering plant will then take the things suitable for pet food and send it to the pet food plant. The rest would be made into cosmetics, candles, etc.

Like I siad, sometimes the cat's stomach dictates what they eat. I always shudder when I think of that poor blind cat who can live on nothing but Iams. Now he has a new chance at life, poor fat bugger.
 

gaddy

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My dogs eat Bench & Field Holistic Natural Canine Formula...it's a pretty good food, no by-products, no corn, etc.. They are doing pretty nicely on it. I try to add things to their food though - eggs, meat, shredded vegetables. Every night I try to add some water to their food, just in case they didn't drink enough water during the day. Soon they will be eating a completely raw diet though.

Yesterday they had some kibble with chicken hearts and hot water...they were very pleased. Some people say, "Wow aren't raw diets really expensive?" Ours will be home prepared, already made can be expensive. Meat is pretty cheap - I can get three weeks supply of bones for about $8. I feed marrow bones once a week to keep their teeth clean.

It is more 'expensive' in time. I won't be preparing meals once every day. I'll be getting the supplies once a month and then just taking an hour or two to measure out a month's supply of meals, sticking them in big freezer bags, and then throwing them in the freezer. Every day I'll take out three meals, thaw them, put the meals in bowls, and add the supplements.

My dogs are a lot healthier now than they were when they were on a food that I could buy at PetSmart.
 
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