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Showing animals

The Magic Taco

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Depending on the breeds, mutts can be the best little pets. My neighbour's dog had about 4 different breeds but is so lovable.
 

C&K

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The Magic Taco said:
Depending on the breeds, mutts can be the best little pets. My neighbour's dog had about 4 different breeds but is so lovable.

I think this statement really sums up how many people feel here about breeding and the human relationship with guineas. Guinea pigs are pets, being bred to standard does not mean they can assist the blind, track down animals or people, fetch dead animals that have been shot, herd animals in a field, or coach horses along to keep running if trying to get to a fire. It also does nothing to guarantee their personality, like it can with purebread dogs (although I have known plenty of happy mellow mutts in my day too).

How a guinea looks is for human benefit, and any breeding while bad breeders are allowed to carry on, wrecks it for the "good breeders" as far as I am concerned, since the market of guineas is in surplus, and populations are getting "culled" at animal shelters. Basically, by finding a "home" it just means that there is one less for a homeless animal to go to. And if this "home" is so caught up in needing the guinea to look a certain way, then a part of me really questions just how good that "home" is.

Maybe my views seem unfair, but "go mutts".
 

gaddy

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Hi, I'm new to the forum. I don't have a guinea pig, but I am the proud owner of three rescue dogs.

Just as a note - I have not read the entire thread, it's quite long and I'm too lazy to read it all :silly:

There are many irresponsible animal breeders out there. There are probably many more irresponsible dog breeders out there than for any other specie. There are people breeding little "labradoodles" without doing any health testing, without trying to get their dogs accepted by their national breed club, just doing it for the money. They make thousands of dollars off these poor, sick little mutts. Now, I have nothing against mutts - I've got two of my own and trust met hey are amazing animals - but there are so many in shelters that would love to have good homes, so instead of buying a mutt from some money hungry jerk, you can save one for $50.

There are also many responsible animal breeders out there. I know a great bulldog breeder. She absolutely loves bullies :). She breeds to better her breed. Her dogs compete in shows, they are totally spoiled, and she only sells her puppies to people who have experience with the breed. She scans them very carefully and also has a very strict contract. But she also feels, that as a breeder, she should do some rescuing too. She works with shelters to help save bullies in need.

Show dogs are not sad little things. Many of these dogs are very happy with their life styles. Yes they compete in shows, but their also spoiled house pets, too! I have NEVER heard of a dog being killed because it didn't win a show. If a dog doesn't win a show, hey, so what? He didn't have what the judge was looking for :). His owner(s)/handler(s) still love him a lot.
 

Sabriel

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I am sure there are many good people who show dogs, but I am sure there are many bad people too. I'm sure there are some people who do treat their dogs like property and aren't very nice to them if they do not win. It's sad, but that's the world for ya. Heck there are people who will be cruel to their children if they do not do well enough in school, sports, dance, etc. What makes you think those people would be any nicer to an animal?
 

Slap Maxwell

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I have to agree with you gaddy, I know a Labrador breeder who is an amazing woman. She breeds a litter a year, and my grandmother had to jump through hoops to qualify to buy one of her puppies. Contracts went all the way from mandatory spay/neuter to the rule that you may not feed or use Iams' products for the animal at all.

Mind that I would have rather her adopted a dog, I am always for adoption first. She didn't have an excuse not to. It just seems that some people don't think beforehand. I was younger when she got this dog anyhow. Later however, I did convince her to adopt a sweet English Setter, Bandit. He came from DAWS of CT. He could be a nippy dog, and you had to be careful to to startle him. But he was a loving soul. He was definetily my favorite of her dogs.
 

YK Shepherd

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slap_maxwell said:
Fortunetily in the Thoroughbred racing industry they have new regualtion crops that are made of a special foam so they don't hurt- but make noise instead. In the Standardbred industry, you are only allowed to use the crop in certain places (ie. not between the legs).

I almost always carry a crop/whip with me when I ride/drive. I rarely smack them with it, but I do "show it to them" a lot.


You got the thoroughbred right but the Standardbreds are not suppose to ever be touched with the whip. They are suppose to hit the thill, [the part of the cart that hooks to the horses side] It makes a hollow sound! The hard part is whether they did actually hit the horse or that part. The stewards have the right to disqualify a horse if they think the whip made contact with the actual horse.

I always carry a crop/whip, when I jump and I only use it as a form of discipline for a refusal and only if there is no reason for that to take place. Also never ever hit more three times because after that the horse has no clue why you are hitting it so what is the point the lesson will not be learned. I very much enjoy my show jumping and I am good at it. I have never abused my horses and never will. I also never just get rid of something because it is not good enough. I always maintain contact with all horses sold, and Yes I breed too so I make sure everyone is healthy and well cared for. I give lessons and I am very active in the horse community!
 

Slap Maxwell

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That is exactly where we use it, on the sides of the sulky.

The only time I don't carry a crop is when I can't (When I work with the cutting horses and show western pleasure) or when I have a nervous or very flighty horse. In certain disciplines (saddleseat) you are required to carry at least a 3'2'' whip when showing.

I never really got into show jumping because when it gets over 3'6'' I just get too nervous. I was raised showing hunters, which I enjoy more than that. However it's not terribly exciting to watch or even do. Currently I am retraining standardbreds and doing some leasurely trail riding as I took a break from showing this year.
 

YK Shepherd

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slap_maxwell said:
That is exactly where we use it, on the sides of the sulky.

The only time I don't carry a crop is when I can't (When I work with the cutting horses and show western pleasure) or when I have a nervous or very flighty horse. In certain disciplines (saddleseat) you are required to carry at least a 3'2'' whip when showing.

I never really got into show jumping because when it gets over 3'6'' I just get too nervous. I was raised showing hunters, which I enjoy more than that. However it's not terribly exciting to watch or even do. Currently I am retraining standardbreds and doing some leasurely trail riding as I took a break from showing this year.


Sounds great! I am not as active as I use to be simply because my family has started and they keep me very busy.

I sure have been known to shake a whip at a horse right in front of them if they are getting to big for their britches but not a heavy whip user at all. Kinda got a good smack as a youngster from a girl who cracked her whip at the horse and it connected with me. I tell you it made a sound and so did I. OOWOWOWOWOOWWO.

There are times and places for them, I can definantly agree with that but some do over use for sure.
:heart: BTW I am new here and have just started posting so this is simply my opinion and not meant to make anyone angry or feel I am overbearing on them. Nope not at all each is entitled to there own ideas.
 

Sabriel

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Given that most people here probably envy you and Slap very much right now, I doubt anyone will get mad at you.

I'll just go and rearange the unicorn and My Little Pony plushies on top of my piggies cage now.
 

C&K

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slap_maxwell said:
Contracts went all the way from mandatory spay/neuter to the rule that you may not feed or use Iams' products for the animal at all.

I am just wondering what would be wrong with Iams products? I worked in a pet supply store briefly about 10 years ago and they where thought to be the #1 brand, and trust me, the store owners did not want them to be because the store had its own brandname food they made a killing off of, and they wanted it to be #1.
 

Slap Maxwell

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Iams is awful. Read http://www.iamscruelty.com/

My family personally feeds Alpo. I havn't heard anything about that, but again, I havn't done extensive research.
 

YK Shepherd

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slap_maxwell said:
Iams is awful. Read http://www.iamscruelty.com/

My family personally feeds Alpo. I havn't heard anything about that, but again, I havn't done extensive research.

Ok I have researched dog foods some and I have had alot of help learning things from a dog nutritionalist on another forum. Alpho, Iams, Science Diet, Pedigree, Ol Roy, any grocery store brand basically Eukabana is another one {garbage}
sorry but it is the truth.

Good quality foods
Candidea, Wellness, Solid Gold, Chicken Soup for dog lovers, Kirkland Signatures [be careful with this one though because they tend to change reciepes so could change quality as well], Innova, there are more but these are jumping to me right now.

Now what to look for
ingredients #1 should be meat ie, chicken, turkey, beef, lamb
should never see by-product that is the cheapest form that is possible to use and it lacks nutrietional values.

#2 Corn a filler that is hard to digest and of no value to a doggie, creates lots of poop that is its value.

Right now I am feeding Kirkland signatures and I happen to have written out all the ingredients on another forum so I will go grab it and post here for anyone interested.

NOTE: I am not an expert and I only really started researching this recently. I do consult a nutritionalist for anything that I do not know. So if you ask me something and I do not know I will ask her. I do not pretend to know what I do not and I will not BS anyone period.
 

C&K

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slap_maxwell said:
Iams is awful. Read http://www.iamscruelty.com/

My family personally feeds Alpo. I havn't heard anything about that, but again, I havn't done extensive research.

I find that very interesting and well look over the link at length, as I don't wish to support any sort of animal cruelty. I know the store avoided selling Science Diet because it is associated with Palmolive which tests/ tested? on animals. They never knew about Iams...

As for Alpo, my understanding was that stuff is like dog candy, not dog food, I have not looked at a bag of it in about 5 years, but it was pretty awful if you knew what you where looking at. Generally the higher quality of dog food, the higher up the list meat is. However, don't be fooled if it is the first ingrediant, because that maybe because it is mixed in with all its water content, and water is heavy. Idealiy you want a food with lots of meat listed in the first 3 ingredients, unless you are going with a high quality vegitarian meal. Acceptable meats are chicken, lamb and venision, beef can be upsetting. the easiest way to tell if you have a high quality food is to look at the feeding instructions and pick one that requires the least amount per day. It is amazing how much it can vary, some foods may recommend only 1 1/3- 2 cups per day for a dog of a certain size, others may require 4.

Less in basically also means less out, which is nice for pooping and scooping. I think all dog owners could appreciate. However on a more serious note, there is a very serious condition known as Bloat for larger dogs, in which the stomach can twist if they eat to much and then drink. If they consumed a lot of food, it blows up with the moisture and it can (usually is with out surgery kill. I nearly lost a dog to this, and I had a friend who did too. this condition can be adverted if the larger dogs are fed a high quality food, often recommended in two separate feeds, and have elevated drinking and food bowls.

Anyway, I suppose it is time to stop rambling in your ear and go do something productive... Which I am occasionally known to do.;)
 

YK Shepherd

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Forgive me but I just have to add my opinion in. I started Yukon on Nutram Large breed puppy, he had the trots every day for three weeks. We switched to Science Diet Large Breed Puppy, no more trots but he had red bumps everywhere on his body adn he scratched and chewed himself constantly. Then I switched when he was 4 months old to Kirkland Signature chicken and rice adult formula; no red bumps, no scratching, no chewing himself, his skin is bright and shinny. He poos not more then once a day sometimes once ever other day, he looks good, he seems to be happy! I have recently started adding raw to his meal but no change in him yet. He gets 1/2 KS and 1/2 raw.

Here are the ingredients for KS

chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat[preserved with mixed tocopherols and Vitamin E], egg product, beet pulp, potatoes, fish meal, flaxseed, natural flavour, brewers dried yeast, millet, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, rosemarry extract, parsley flake, dried chicory root, glucosamine hydrochloride, Vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamin monotnitrate, maganese proteinate, manganous oxide, chondroitin sulfate, ascorbic acid, vitaminA supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrchloride[vitamin B6], vitamin B12 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex[source of vitamin K activity], riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid





I feel funny posting dog food on piggy forums but here is the info on this one and if anyone wants anything on a brand name I can get it probably from the doggy site as there is a hugh discussion going on about it right now.
 

YK Shepherd

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Less in basically also means less out, which is nice for pooping and scooping. I think all dog owners could appreciate. However on a more serious note, there is a very serious condition known as Bloat for larger dogs, in which the stomach can twist if they eat to much and then drink. If they consumed a lot of food, it blows up with the moisture and it can (usually is with out surgery kill. I nearly lost a dog to this, and I had a friend who did too. this condition can be adverted if the larger dogs are fed a high quality food, often recommended in two separate feeds, and have elevated drinking and food bowls.

Excellent point and so true!
 

C&K

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I was writting while you posted this, so I did not see it. However I have a couple of questions:

While some foods you listed are really bad, I think that it is important to clarify that some are worse then other. Eukanuba, Iams, and Science diet are leaps and bounds better then Pedigree, Alpo or Ol Roy, there really is almost no comparision... And isnt Kirkland the namebrand for Costco? Which is basically a grocery standard? I have looked over the Kirkland dog food label recently because we where thinking about getting a dog, and it did look pretty good, but I would not say that it is better then the top three listed above...

As for By product meal, my understanding was it is fine, and actually a good ingredient to see in the number 2 or 3 spot. Infact, a good amount of by products can be better then plain "meat" as the first because it is more condensed, often dehydrated, and it isn't garbage, it is just parts that we would not normally eat. What is garbage is bone meal, which is basically what it sounds like...

I am not trying to pick a fight, I really have not looked at any of this at length in about 5 years, but it just is what I was told and studied in the past.

Some foods, like Purinia One may list "Chicken" as the first ingredient, but it does not mean it is nessisarly the best because to get this ranking, it just has to have more chicken then anything else... and chicken has a lot of water in it, so you can see how this can be manipulated. Hence why you want pure meat and by products to back it up in the first few ingrediants.

Also, beef is very upsetting to many dog stomachs, and is usually a sign of a low quality food.

YK Shepherd said:
Ok I have researched dog foods some and I have had alot of help learning things from a dog nutritionalist on another forum. Alpho, Iams, Science Diet, Pedigree, Ol Roy, any grocery store brand basically Eukabana is another one {garbage}
sorry but it is the truth.

Good quality foods
Candidea, Wellness, Solid Gold, Chicken Soup for dog lovers, Kirkland Signatures [be careful with this one though because they tend to change reciepes so could change quality as well], Innova, there are more but these are jumping to me right now.

Now what to look for
ingredients #1 should be meat ie, chicken, turkey, beef, lamb
should never see by-product that is the cheapest form that is possible to use and it lacks nutrietional values.

#2 Corn a filler that is hard to digest and of no value to a doggie, creates lots of poop that is its value.

Right now I am feeding Kirkland signatures and I happen to have written out all the ingredients on another forum so I will go grab it and post here for anyone interested.

NOTE: I am not an expert and I only really started researching this recently. I do consult a nutritionalist for anything that I do not know. So if you ask me something and I do not know I will ask her. I do not pretend to know what I do not and I will not BS anyone period.
 

C&K

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YK Shepherd said:
I feel funny posting dog food on piggy forums but here is the info on this one and if anyone wants anything on a brand name I can get it probably from the doggy site as there is a hugh discussion going on about it right now.

Maybe this should be moved to the other topics forum then carried on this thread, but since it was started here, I just want to add this...

the Lable you copied sounds very good, and illustrates what I was trying to say, in that the Chicken, and chicken meal are the #1 and #2 ingredients. If there was only chicken as the #1 and then plant products as the #2 and #3, you are probably looking at a lower quality food.

However, I am still not sure that I would say that KS is really significantly better then Science Diet or Iams, however it is uncomparable to Ol' Roy or other foods like Kibbles and Bits. I know when I worked in the pet store, we compared Alpo to Kibbles and Bits, and only sold maybe a bag a month to those that really insisted...
 

YK Shepherd

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Eukabana ingredients

Ingredients
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Fish Meal (source of fish oil), Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Brewers Rice, Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Flax Meal, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract



#2 is by product
#3 is corn
 

YK Shepherd

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Iams ingredients

Ingredients
Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Fish Meal (source of fish oil), Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Flax Meal, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract

#2 is corn
#4 is by products
 

YK Shepherd

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Here is Alpho

First Ten Ingredients
  • Ground yellow corn
    Beef and bone meal
    Soybean meal
    Beef tallow (preserved with mixed tocoperols)
    Chicken meal
    Dried whey
    Salt
    Animal digest
    Choline chloride
    Potassium chloride
Remaining Ingredients
  • Liver and Glandular meal, Dried cheese powder, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, DL-methionine, niacin, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, copper sulfate, vitamin B-12, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, vitamin D-3 supplement, mendione sodium bisulfate complex, calcium iodate, sodium selenite
  • #1 is corn but believe it or not there is no mention of by products so this would be better than eukabana and Iams. I tried to get science diet but am unable to get on their site right now. I can tell you that Science diet has by products and corn.
 
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