Preaching to the choir (I hope) - Turtles

[VoodooJoint]

I'm hoping that most people here feel the same way I do on this subject and if so this is just a vent. If not, then PLEASE, take this post to heart.

In the last few weeks I have had at least 5 different people ask me if I wanted some baby turtles. The Red Eared Slider eggs are hatching right now and people are catching the babies to keep and share as pets (more like novelties).

I guess people ask me because they know I love animals and have 3 turtles of my own. The difference, as I explain to them, is that the turtles I have are rescues. I do not buy, accept as "gifts" or steal out of the wild, any sort of turtles or other wild animals.

As I tell all of these people wanting to give me turtles; These baby turtles need to be left alone. It is illegal to remove wild animals (even in the city) from their habitat. It is illegal to own, sell, give away, raffle off, etc ANY turtle with a carapace of less then 4 inches in diameter and these babies are only an inch across.

People don't seem to realize the potential harm they are doing. I'm honest and tell them that most of those babies will not survive their first few months in the wild but it is important that they not be taken from "danger" because the reason most die is because they become food for some other native species. Essentially they are robbing another animal of a necessary meal.

Turtles are not easy to care for. Because of poor care and housing many pet turtles die within a year or two. Most others in a typical home, with typical "petstore" type care are lucky to make it to 15-25 years old. Seems like a long time huh? A good, long life? Well, considering that the average lifespan of a RES turtle is 75 years it's not long at all. It would be like a human dying by age 25.

If one of these turtles manages to live for several years it will quickly outgrow it's tank and most people simply release them into the "wild". The RES turtle (the most common breed sold in petshops) is not native to the northern states in American and they are doing great damage to the environment. Even down south here where they are native they should not be released because they can (and have been known to) carry deadly infections and diseases that can wipe out entire ecosystems.

So please people leave the baby turtles, snakes, toads, frogs, tadploes, lizards, etc...where you find them. They are not pets. They do not want to be pets and their lives in the wild serve a purpose.

If you do take or buy a turtle please don't come knocking on my door to take it off your hands because it's outgrown it's pathetic, inadequate tank or you think I want cutie babies. Yes, I will probably take it because I know you will just do something with it you shouldn't if I don't, but I don't want it.

 

[TayleesFriend]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

Very well said! You are very caring and knowledgable! Good for you!

 

[JarBax]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

People don't seem to realize the potential harm they are doing. I'm honest and tell them that most of those babies will not survive their first few months in the wild but it is important that they not be taken from "danger" because the reason most die is because they become food for some other native species. Essentially they are robbing another animal of a necessary meal.

Whilst we don't have turtles here, I sing in harmony with your choir! Just wanted to add: there are lots of babies because most wont survive beyond babyhood - the chances are slim, so every time a baby is taken from the wild, the ratio of survivors versus casualties goes down yet again - one less given the chance to make it. :sad:

If every tadpole in the pond survived, we would be festooned in frogs, however, if each frog only had one tadpole - as VJ said - there would be no food for the next in line in the food chain. So, removing a tadpole to keep as a 'pet' leaves the other tadpoles in the pond that little bit more vulnerable, thus making a tiny adjustment to the eco-system by un-natural means. The chances of your little tadpole pet surviving is tiny too.

 

[Piggiepen]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

I heartily agree! We have a pair of salamanders that have taken up residence in our courtyard. At first my daughter wanted me to catch them for her and I said no. I told her that they are wild animals and we could never duplicate their environment/food to enable them to live happy lives as our captives. If I caught them for her, in a week they'd be dead. I have always tried to reinforce the ideal of leaving nature be - even butterflies & snails. I enjoy seeing Sal & Sally basking after a rain storm on the concrete, they have no fear and are so cute to see and would be sad if something tragic happened to either.

 

[Terekins]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

I thought you were actually posting about singing in a choir, silly me
Turtles are beautiful animals, and you're right, they're difficult to care for. I've always wondered how many people who own exotic animals (I had a friend who had scorpions for example) own them because it's "cool" to "own" something so different, as opposed to wanting them as companions to care for and love. Thanks for posting about this issue.

 

[VoodooJoint]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

I have noticed in a couple of posts that people are noticing that petstores are selling baby turtles or that they are planning on getting a baby turtle.

Here is a regulation on the issue you need to know about including what action you should take. Please do not think that I support the below mentioned method of euthanasia for turtles. I posted this simply to draw attention about the law.

CPG 7129.01)
POLICY:
The sale or commercial distribution of viable turtle eggs and small turtles (carapace length less than 4 inches) for use as pets is banned under 21 CFR 1240.62. The ban is based on the Public Health Service Act (section 361, 58 Stat. 703) and therefore applies to both intrastate and interstate sale and distribution. Exceptions to the ban under 21 CFR 1240.62 permit sales of turtles and turtle eggs for use in bona fide scientific, educational, or exhibitional purposes other than as pets and of marine (ocean) turtles. Other exceptions to the ban are the sale of turtles and turtle eggs not in connection with a business (e.g., limited sales between turtle fanciers have been permitted) or that are intended only for export. The ban applies to small turtles (under 4 inch carapace length) because these are most likely to be held for sale as children's pets, and the purpose of the ban is to protect children from turtle-born salmonellosis.

FDA will respond to consumer and state and local government complaints. If illegal turtles are encountered during the course of regular FDA activities appropriate action should be taken. If illegal pet turtles are found in distribution channels, the following are recommended:

1. Determine whether the State or local government has regulations controlling turtles. If so, they should be encouraged to assume primary responsibility and report the source or subsequent distribution of the turtles outside their jurisdiction to FDA for appropriate followup. If a State or local government is unable or unwilling to take appropriate action, FDA will assume primary responsibility for the investigation.

2. Advise the person or persons who are offering for sale, or other commercial distribution, turtles with a carapace length of less than four (4) inches in length or viable turtle eggs, that they are in violation of 21 CFR 1240.62. Provide a copy of the regulations to the person in charge.

3. Determine, if possible, the source and subsequent distribution of illegal turtles. Send surveillance reports to the home districts of the turtle suppliers and distributors and report sub-distribution so that followup may be made to effect removal of turtles from distribution. Also, report purported &quotlegal"distribution under the exceptions listed in 21 CFR 1240.62 (e.g., shipments to pet stores invoiced as &quotfor scientific purposes") so that investigations can be made of diversions to pet sales.

4. Encourage appropriate voluntary disposition whenever possible (see paragraph 6).

5. If voluntary disposition cannot be obtained, issue a Demand for Disposition letter. If sale or distribution of turtles or turtle eggs in violation of 21 CFR 1240.62 has already been documented by a State or local government agency, the Demand for Disposition letter may be issued on that basis. (For a guide for preparation of the Demand for Disposition letter see Attachment A.) After service of the Demand for Disposition, take all reasonable precautions to insure that the person in possession of the turtles or turtle eggs will not sell, distribute, or otherwise dispose of any of the turtles or turtle eggs except in a manner that precludes children obtaining the turtles.

6. Any reasonable voluntary or on-demand method of disposition that accomplishes the goal of removing small turtles from general sale, or distribution is acceptable (e.g., donation to a zoo). The Humane Society may be willing to supervise release to the wild in an appropriate habitat. Destruction of the turtles by FDA personnel at the district office using a humane method is indicated if an acceptable alternative method of disposition is not available. Because turtles are &quotcold blooded,"freezing is a humane method of destruction.

7. Following destruction, the turtles should be disposed of in a manner to preclude spread of any contaminating organism.

8. Forward a copy of the investigation (including the source, any subsequent distribution and disposition) to *CFSAN/Office of Field Programs/Division of Enforcement (HFS-605)*.
REGULATORY ACTION GUIDANCE:
If a dealer refuses to comply after receiving the Demand for Disposition letter (Attachment A), and evidence is obtained that turtles continue to be held for sale or distribution in violation of 21 CFR 1240.62, *CFSAN/Office of Field Programs/Division of Enforcement (HFS-605)* should be contacted before submission of a regulatory action proposal.

GUIDE LETTER FOR DEMAND FOR DISPOSITION​

On June 1, 1983, FDA investigator Jones inspected (insert name of organization, company, person, or persons).
The inspection showed that turtles were being offered for sale or public commercial distribution (recite with particularity the facts which justify the demand).
Pursuant to the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, section 1240.62, a copy of which is attached, demand is made that these turtles shall not be sold, distributed or otherwise disposed of except by an approved method of disposition (e.g., destruction by a humane method such as by freezing, release to the wild, or donation to a zoo) by or under the Supervision of the ____________ District of the Food and Drug Administration.
You may comply with this demand for disposition or within 10 working days appeal the demand to the Director of the *Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition*, Food and Drug Administration, 200 C Street, S.W., Washington, DC 20204. Such manner of appeal is described in section 1240.62(c) of the attached regulation (21 CFR 1240.62). Please contact _________________ at (telephone No.) to arrange for supervision of the disposition of the turtles.
/s/
District Director

*Material between asterisks is new or revised*
Issued: 5/1/84
Revised: 8/31/89, 3/95

What You Can Do to stop the sale!

 

[tashagurl]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

I was given a baby RES about two months ago. Currently he is about four or five inches in diameter. I want to give him the best life possible, but Im not exactly sure how to do this. How big of a tank or pond does he need? What temp can he handle?

I was thinking of making a pond for him in out yard when he is bigger and taking him inside in the winter. About how big should he be befor I let him out in the pond?

The lady who gave him to me bought him at a flemarket when he was about an inch or so across. She had him in her fishtank and when he got bigger he started helping himself to the fish so she didnt want him anymore. I am fully commited to taking care of Fred for the rest of his life. I just do't know exactly where to start.Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[VoodooJoint]

Re: Preaching to the choir (I hope)

It looks like San Diego has a climate that would allow you to house your turtle outside, year-round. This would make Fred happiest and healthiest since, being a wild animal, they don't usually do as well indoors without major expense and space. Fred may hibernate in the winter (mine do) but that is normal and healthy. During hibernation turn off any pond pumps. As long as it doesn't get cold enough to freeze the pond Fred will be fine.

You will need to fence off an area at least 4'x6'. The fencing should be at least 2 feet high--I prefer 4'. You will also need to bury the fencing about a foot underground to prevent Fred from digging out. While Fred is small you may want to build a top to it to keep predators out.

In the enclosure you will need to build a pond at least 2'x4'. The pond should be at least 18" deep to allow Fred growing and swimming room. You should have a pump and preferably a filter to keep the water clean and circulated. You should have plants in the pond and you can also stock it with fish but the turtle will eat both the plants and the fish so you may need to restock regularly.

Rocks or bricks should be used to create a ramp or steps out of the pond in at least one area so the turtle can get out of the water to bask. Line the edges of the pond, or at least provide a couple of large, flat rocks at the edge of the water for basking. At least one rock (or one edge of the pond) should have shade (a small, pretty bush works well)

The entire enclosure will need to have both sunlight and shade so the turtle can maintain a comfortable temperature at it's decision. You can plant a couple of low bushes in or near the enclosure to create this shade as well as locate it near a tree.

Give the turtle lots of cover and hiding places outside of the water so it feels safe while basking.

You can make the enclosure quite beautiful and make Fred happy at the same time. Flowering plants and pretty rocks--maybe even a small waterfall--will make the enclosure look more like landscaping then an animal enclosure and in return Fred will amuse you with his antics. Once he gets happy and gets used to you he will probably start responding to your voice and even come when called (mine do)

Here are some sites for more care and housing info
http://turtlerescues.com/res.htm
Valerie Haecky's (Mostly) Water Turtle Information Pages
Outdoor Enclosures | Gulf Coast Turtle and Tortoise Society
Tortoise and Turtle Enclosures - pictures of outdoor enclosures. These are all made for tortoises, not aquatic turtles, but you may get some great ideas.

 

[mommyoffive]

Well this topic just came in time. Someone abadoned a baby red eared slider at my work today so I decided to give it a loving home. They must have gotten it from a flea market because it is only an inch long. Great now I have an illegal turtle! Its so irresponsible how people will go to flea market and "buy" a turtle because their so cute. They have NO idea what the upkeep is for these guys.

Spunky is in a temporary 5 gallon tank untill I can upgrade him to a 15 gallon in a months time. And by the time I move out he'll be big enough to go into a pond. He's so tiny right now that he can swim all over the place in the 5 gallon and comfortably too! To be honest I really dont know that much about sliders but I have already started my research.

Here's spunky!