Diarrhea HELP - SEVERE DIARRHEA mushys poops

[ech90]

I adopted my piggies on October 31st and for the past three months one of them, Buttercup, has had nonstop mushy poops. Sometimes they are really long, like 1.5 inches long, and they are always very wet and very smelly. It is driving me crazy because she and her sister are always stepping in it and I feel like I am constantly giving them poop shoe baths! Also, it's not a matter of not cleaning their cage enough because their cage is right next to my desk and every time I hear her poop I go over to pick it up


I also didn't even know that guinea pigs could fart and she farts A LOT (loudly too - one time my boyfriend heard it from all the way across the room). This usually happens before or after she poops but sometimes it just happens randomly. Also, everytime she poops she tenses her body up and makes a high pitched sound several times until the poop comes out. It is almost like she is constipated and having to push really hard to get her poops out, but how can she be constipated when everything is so mushy?

I don't understand because her sister has such nice, firm, little coffee bean poops. I took them both to the vet about 2 months ago (someone I found on guinealynx and is supposedly cavy saavy) and she seemed to think that Buttercup's gastrointestinal issues might be due to an intolerance to one of the veggies I was feeding. She suggested that I cut out all vegetables entirely until the diarrhea went away and then adding them back one at a time, but I felt bad just giving them no vegetables.

------By the way, the vegetables I was feeding were green and red leaf lettuce, romaine lettuce, green bell peppers, cilantro, occasional zucchini, and a little bit of carrot each week. Also, they are given Cavy Cuisine pellets and an unlimited supply of Kleenmama's timothy hay.------

Anyway, I read on this website that too many veggies can often cause diarrhea, so I gradually started giving them less and less. The first week I gave them about 1/4 less - still diarrhea. The second week I gave them about 1/2 less - still diarrhea. By the third week I was giving them very few veggies and still, the was diarrhea. So finally I decided to listen to my veterinarians advice - I cut out the veggies entirely and waited for the poops to firm up. That was A MONTH AGO and she still has as much diarrhea as ever. Since being off the veggies nothing has gotten worse (farts, lengths of poops and mushiness, squeaking noise while pooping - everything is still the same) but then again nothing has gotten better.

I am at a complete loss as to what is causing this diarrhea! The only thing I can think of now is maybe she drinks too much water? (not that I would even think about taking their water away or somehow trying to limit her intake, but maybe that is the cause?) Ever since I have had her she drinks MUCH more water than her sister, seems water obsessed, and her favorite place to sleep is under the water bottles. Even though I am constantly rotating out dry towels and fleece, it still gets rather damp under there and I can't imagine that it is very comfortable for her. I think she likes sleeping there because she is so close to the water she can drink it without even getting up? She is so obsessed with water that I thought she might have diabetes, except she doesn't exhibit any of the other symptoms of it. And diabetes wouldn't explain her poop?



Sorry that this is a super long post. I am just worried, worried that the diarrhea is a symptom of something larger and that I won't find out until it is too late.

• What is the cause of that high pitched squeaking sound?

• Why, when Piggy poops everything seems to just slide out naturally, but when Bcup does it it seems like she is really straining herself?

• Why is she still have diarrhea after a month of absolutely no veggies?

Should I do as my vet said and withhold the veggies and until her poops firm up? Or, since there haven't been any improvements after not having veggies for so long, should I just give them to her again because it's not like it makes a difference anyway? Please...someone help!!!

 

[bpatters]

You need a new vet. If withholding veggies doesn't firm up mushy poop in a day or so, there's something else wrong. My guess would be that your pig needs metronidazole (Flagyl), but you need to see a vet who knows something about guinea pigs.

 

[ech90]

I am thinking of making an appointment for Buttercup at the Penn Veterinary Hospital with their exotic companion animal service hopefully for sometime next week. Should I assume that since this is an exotic animal specialty that they will also be knowledgeable about guinea pigs or are there any specific questions that I should ask when I call to make the appointment?

Thanks in advance!

I am pretty confidant in their abilities there (I actually even volunteered at their emergency services for a bit last semester) but I just want to make sure that I will be seeing a cavy savvy vet before spending another $130 or so on an appointment. I thought that the last one would have been okay because I found a recommendation for her on guinealynx, but it turned out that she was more of a regular vet despite owning guinea pigs in the past did not give the best advice for their treatment.

 

[ech90]

Also, here are videos in case that helps. You can see her straining herself and if you turn up your volume you can here the noises.

[video=youtube;FtNQk9G-0Fc]

[video=youtube;VvYXtEeRuBM]

I am really worried because on Guinea Lynx under common mistakes it said:

[h=3]Urinary Tract Problems[/h] 1. Neglecting to treat signs of a stone as an urgent situation. Many guinea pigs have died from urinary blockage.
2. Dismissing squeaking while pooping or attributing this as something not related to bladder problems. It almost always is.
3. Not getting X-rays to rule out stones when bladder problems are suspected.
4. Opting for non-surgical treatments for bladder stones (such as using injections or hoping that a stone will pass). Passing a bladder stone is rare, especially for boars.
5. Not giving intensive postoperative care to guinea pigs who have had a stone removed. Swelling after surgery can cause urinary blockage. Some problems with the genitourinary tract may affect the G.I. system, causing bloat, diarrhea, or other conditions that need immediate treatment.


Anyone have any advice on the post above, about making sure I am seeing a cavy savvy vet?

 

[bpatters]

All I can tell you is that Penn has an excellent reputation overall, but I don't have any specific knowledge of any of their exotic vets.

 

[foggycreekcavy]

It's not diarrhea, but the stool is definitely softer than normal, and the length of them and the way she strains to get them out is concerning.

I do think that a stone is a possibility, and that you will want to get an xray soon. Alternatively, I agree with bpatters that perhaps flagyl is needed in the case of a gastrointestinal infection or problem.

I don't necessarily think your vet is a bad one. Did you let the vet know what was happening after the initial visit? You might call and give them the update, and see what they suggest. If you can afford it, it never hurts to get a second opinion.

Your photos and videos are very helpful.

 

[ech90]

Of the five exotic companion animal faculty and staff, only one, who is listed as an "attending clinician and chief of service," is listed as also having a DABVP, which is some sort of special exotics certification. However, the ABVP website says that there several different ABVP specialties, for example, Avian, Exotic Companion Mammal, and Reptile and Amphibian, and this person seems to have a DABVP-Avian, not a DABVP-Exotic Companion Mammal, which makes me a little worried. The other four are listed as just having DVM/VMDs, and one also has an MLAS (Master of Laboratory Animal Science).

I plan on asking which exotic vet I will be seeing and how often that person sees/treats guinea pigs specifically. Is that enough to ask? Should I insist on seeing the one with the ABVP-Avian specialty or do you think any one of them is okay because they are all in the Exotic Companion Animal services. Taking her to Penn Vet would definitely be easiest because it is literally right across the street from where I live. Sorry I am asking so many questions - I just feel like I failed my guinea pig the first time when I took her to the vet while I was at home over winter break, and now I really want to do it right. I want to make an appointment for her ASAP but I just want to find the right person to do it with.

 

[bpatters]

I'd definitely ask about how many guinea pigs they see, and also what the "exotic companion mammal" means.

You might also want to look at the vet list at Guinea Lynx -- there are a number of recommended exotic vets in the city: https://www.guinealynx.info/vetlist.html.

 

[ech90]

@foggycreekcavy

I talked to their original vet about a week after I first brought them in to give her an update because Piggy (my other guinea pig) had had some crust on the top of her nose so she put her on something called TRIMETH-SULF LIQUID that I squirted into her mouth 2x a day. The medicine didn't make any difference at all but she said that Piggy was okay because the crust didn't seem to be bothering her at all. I have since learned from a UK rescue guinea pig forum that it is probably something called Fungal Nose Stripe and it is okay to leave it as it is, but that is something I was planning on asking about another day.

Anyway, when I called to give her the update about Piggy and mentioned that Bcup's poops were still mushy, she honestly didn't seem that concerned and told me again to not give any veggies until the mushiness stopped. I feel so stupid not giving her any for a month thinking that if I waited just a little longer it would stop, when I now know thanks to bpatters that if veggies truly had been the problem it would have stopped after only a few days!

I feel like I have only had my guinea pigs for three months and already I am such a failure to them. They had all of these things when I got them and the previous owners had obviously taken good care of them with a C&C cage, piggybedspreads (which unfortunately couldn't be given to me because they were accidentally thrown away), veterinary care and such, so I thought that these were all just little "quirks" of theirs and not actual medical problems!

I am going to call the vet that I took them to in December again but I have a feeling she is going to ask me to bring Buttercup in again which is not possible now that I am back at school and now longer at home, so I guess I will be bringing her to a different one here. I don't really have the money for it, which is why when I bring her I want to make sure we are going to really good, really cavy savvy vet. I am willing to forgo other parts of my life to make sure that my girls get the best possible care that they can get!

Anyway, here are pictures of Piggy's nose and the way her eye gets all weird when she sleeps. I was was told that it was probably just cataracts, but then wouldn't it happen when she is awake too and not in only one eye when she is asleep? I am sorry if I sound so frantic in my posts, I just feel really guilty for not realizing things were more serious and for not doing anything about them sooner. Here are pictures of Piggy's eye and nose; I will do it if I have to but I really hope I don't have to bring her in to see a new vet alongside Buttercup as well. Between the $300 I spent bringing them both to the vet in December and buying all of my textbooks at the beginning of the semester, there just isn't very much right now to go around!

 

[ech90]

@bpatters

Thank you for your reply! Penn's number to call for non-emergency appointments is closed, but I am going to call first thing in the morning. The Guinea Lynx vet list is where I found the vet that I took them to in the first place! She was really nice but that is why I don't understand why I haven't gotten more answers. Also, I mentioned how glad I was that both of my girls are sows because I didn't know if I could deal with impaction issues in boars later on in life, and she said that she had never heard of impaction before and I had to tell her what it was! I guess it is because she mentioned that all of her boars had been neutered, but as a vet, still!!

Just so that no one thinks that I am trying to sell out this vet or slander her on the internet, I want to make it clear that even though I am in Philadelphia now, I saw her when I was at home and she DOES NOT practice in the Philadelphia area. According to the Guinea Lynx vet list other people have had wonderful experiences with her, so maybe it is just me.

 

[Delaine]

Just curious. Do your guinea pigs get tap water or filtered water? I don't know if your water is chlorinate in your area. I was warned when I got my girls to not give them chlorinate tap water because it can alter the good bacteria in the gut and guinea pigs need that good bacteria. Also did they check for parasites or worms in the stool.

 

[ech90]

Delaine - I give my guinea pigs tap water because that is what I drink and I never even thought about it. Now that you brought it up though, that actually makes a lot of sense. Even though drinking tap water is okay for me, guinea pigs are so much smaller and they must be much more sensitive to any chemicals/chlorine that they ingest.

I called back the original vet today and as I expected, she wanted me to bring Buttercup in for another visit (which is not possible because I am back at school now and no longer at home!). I am going to hold off on bringing her in to see a new vet for another week and see if giving them bottled water makes another difference, but if she is still having issues I will take her to see a different veterinarian here.

Also, when I took them to see the vet in December, she did do a fecal test for bacteria/parasites, however, she did the test using one of the poops from Piggy and not Buttercup (who is the one with all of the poop issues). She said that it didn't matter which guinea pig the poop came from, because if one of them had bacteria or parasites then both of them would have it. Anyone know if this is true?

 

[Delaine]

If you get them bottled water make sure it is not distilled or mineral water. See if you can get filtered water or reverse osmosis water. If you have access to a hot tub/pool testing kit (I bought mine for $10.95 at a pool supply store) you can test your chlorine levels and also your pH levels in your water. I use a Brita filter and it removes virtually all the chlorine and lowers the pH level showing that the lime scale is removed which may help with bladder sludge. Your piggy is so sweet, I hope you and the vet can help her. My vet also did a stool sample looking for parasites and the one I wanted tested wouldn't cooperate and give a sample so she tested my other girl. She told me the same thing, if one girl had parasites so would the other one. I don't know about bacteria.

 

[Gigabyte]

No sugar and hopefully no flavoring or color pepto bismol tonight until you make it to the vet. And possibly a 50/50 mix of water and unflavored pedialyte may help you.

 

[amysanimals]

I had a guinea pig with a shockingly similar issue. He would easily empty an entire water bottle by himself in a day. He would also have the poop gloves, and his feet would need cleaned 2-3 times a day. Have you noticed any excessive eating in addition to the drinking? Any weight loss? I only ask because I had a boy with hyperthyroidism who began slowly losing weight. He would eat constantly and, as I mentioned, drink an obscene amount of water in one day.

I took him to numerous vets and they always told me things like, "Cut back on his veggies, hes getting too much moisture." "Force more hay, he needs the extra fiber." "Try acidophillus to reestablish gut flora." or worst of all, "Well, that might just be how he is." I was basically dismissed as a crazy person until we had to rush him to an emergency vet because he was listless. Luckily, our emergency vet is wonderful and knew to test his thyroid levels. Its always something worth asking your vet about. Also, if you palpitate the thyroid, you may be able to feel any kind of enlargement that would be worth concern.

Also, we found that Metronidazole, as I think someone else also mentioned, was slightly helpful. Grant it, it didnt make a drastic difference but there was a small, temporary improvement.

Hope all turns out well

 

[foggycreekcavy]

I remember seeing photos of Piggy somewhere--is there a thread on her here?

The line going up from her nose does appear to be that stripe of fungus that some pigs get (you can apply some over the counter fungus cream like Lotrimin twice a day to see if it helps), but the stuff on the side of her nostrils looks to be from some nasal discharge.

As for Buttercup, I do think that more diagnostic work is needed. Did they go back to the vet?

 

[Frapplove]

This is a long thread and I have a terrible time with names, but the guinea with the eye thing- you said ..."the way her eye gets all weird when she sleeps. I was was told that it was probably just cataracts, but then wouldn't it happen when she is awake too and not in only one eye when she is asleep?" What do you mean by "all weird"? Is it that she doesn't close that eye? Does it have cloudiness, like cataracts?
I ask because I noticed that one of my guinea pigs had cloudiness in her eyes too, like cataracts. I took her in to the vet, she got her eyes looked at, and it turns out it was not cataracts at all. She actually had some inflammation around her eye, so that she couldn't close it all the way without a lot of help and prodding. Her right eye was worse than her left. She had a little white spot on it, even. I have no idea what caused it; she wasn't getting the best of care before I got her. She has been getting eye drops (not medicinal, just lubricating) to make it easier for her to close her eyes, and they look much better even after just over a week-the cloudiness is much less severe.
So the advice I bring to the table is Don't write it off as "probably just cataracts" because it could be something completely heal-able and temporary.

 

[Delaine]

ech90

How is Buttercup doing?

 

[ech90]

Hello! Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond these past few days - I've had the stomach flu and was not in good shape!

@Delaine I have been giving Piggy and Buttercup filtered water from a brita filter but so far that hasn't made any difference. Thank you for the suggestion though, and I am going to continue to give them filtered water even if that isn't the immediate source of the problem!

@amysanimals Your piggy's symptoms do sound eerily similar to Buttercup's and that is definitely something I am going to ask the vet about on Friday. She has slowly been losing weight a tiny bit of weight each week, totaling a loss of about .1 pounds (down from 1.5 to 1.4 lbs) over the past month. She definitely also eats a lot, at least as much as her sister does (who weighs 2.5 lbs).

I think I might cry if it turns out that's what she has because I have a senior cat who had hyperthyroidism and we literally just had her treated for it with radioiodine in December. I know that you mention Metronidazole in your post to alleviate the symptoms, but do you use anything to actively treat the hyperthyroidism? I know we used to give my cat Tapazole 2x a day, but I don't even know if that comes in a liquid form and I can't even imagine how I could force her to swallow a pill!

@Frapplove When I say the "weird" thing with Piggy's eye I mean the way her eye looks when she is sleeping. I know that sometimes guinea pigs sleep with their eyes open, but not only are her eyes open but her eyeballs seem to roll downwards as well so that the white part is showing and up to half of her eyes look white. I wrote in my previous post that this only happens with her right eye, but I noticed the other day that she had it on her left eye as well. Strangely enough, on her left eye the "white" area where her eyeball has rolled down is not white but a much darker grey color. I noticed Buttercup having it too for the first time the other day (albeit to a much lesser extent), so when we go to the vet I will ask her about it and hopefully her answer will apply to Piggy as well. I am including pictures of their "weird sleeping eyes" at the end of the post so you will be able to better see what I am talking about!

@foggycreekcavy I posted pictures of Piggy earlier in this thread but didn't start a separate thread about her because I am new here and didn't want to annoy people by starting a million threads and asking a million questions! Since Buttercup's problems seemed much more immediate and causing her distress I figured I would ask about her first, but now that you've brought it up I guess it does make more sense to give Piggy her own thread. I have a few more questions about her nose, but I am going to ask them over there!



Buttercup is going to see Dr. Nicole Wyre at the Penn Veterinary Hospital on Wednesday. The person that I talked to when making the appointment said that Dr. Wyre is a very knowledgeable exotics vet and that she sees guinea pigs all the time. The cynic in me thinks "Of course she's going to say that - what else would she say!" but that's probably just a reaction from my being unhappy with the last veterinary experience. Besides, Penn really does have an excellent reputation and I will not lose hope! Even though I will only be bringing in Buttercup this time, I am hoping to "sneak" a question about Piggy in by showing a picture of her nose and asking whether or not she thinks it is serious enough to bring Piggy in as well. I am crossing my fingers that she will say "No! You can just wipe it off and she will be fine" or "No! She might have an URI but here is some (insert medication) and you don't have to bring her in," but we can only hope, right? Anyway, I will keep you updated after Buttercup's appointment on Wednesday. Thank you all for your kindness, recommendations, and support!

Bcups "weird sleeping" left eye:



Piggy's "weird sleeping" left eye:



Piggy's "weird sleeping" right eye:



Another video of Bcup peeing/pooping/farting/dragging her butt through the fleece forest to wipe off the extra mushy poo. I swear she thinks "Why are you always stalking me when I am trying to do my private business in peace?" But on a more serious note, every time I hear her squeaking to poo I feel horrible knowing that she might be in pain.

[video=youtube;FbgGhYpRF6Y]

And lastly, just so that not everything is pooping videos and Frankenstein eyes (that is what my sister calls them; she is older than I am, believe it or not), here is a cute picture of them semi-snuggling with each other last night!



Again, thanks everyone!

 

[bpatters]

Just for clarification for anyone reading this thread later -- metronidazole does nothing for hyperthyroid symptoms. Its use is for bacterial and parasitic infections.