Guinea pigs as livestock

[wickedrodent]

Ah, sorry Ly, I didn't notice I slipped that in there.

 

[fillycate]

Wicked, let me explain a little more about where I am coming from. I expect civilization as we know it to fall. I don't think our oil is going to hold out, and I don't think we are going to find an alternate, viable source of fuel anywhere near our needs before it does. That is my opinion. When and if that happens, a well-balanced vegetarian diet would be very difficult if not impossible to maintain. When and if that happens, I will be in a position to support my family and those around me.

But beyond that, in the research I have done, I believe that animal protein is an important part of our diet. I agree that grain-fed meat is often less healthy for us, but I grass-fed meat is quite different. I have changed the way I eat according to the reading and research I have done and have been extremely healthy and fit because of it.

That being said, I prefer for most of the animal protein I consume to come from milk and eggs because, if it involves death, it involves a lot less death than eating meat. But I do not have a problem with eating meat. I feel that the best way to be a responsible meat eater is to be willing to be involved with and face the price that is paid. I do not think it is sick at all, but a healthy outlook. Death is a part of life. The food chain is a part of life and nature. I am not ashamed of my meat-eating.

Animals very much have a place in farming. Their manure is a far superior fertilizer to industrially created fertilizers. Animals and plant crops go together, compliment each other, and complete an ecosystem of diversity. Part of that, in my opinion, involves eating some meat. I am trying to put my land to use in a way that creates food. Much of my land is not appropriate for growing crops, but provides good forage for animals. This is true for much of the land on planet earth. Also, raising industrial-scale crops is harmful to the earth causing very damaging erosion. If done correctly, rotational grazing heals the earth and builds it up in its complexity, diversity, and ability to support life. Land that has had animals on it done properly can later better handle crops because topsoil is created.

Industrial-scale crop farming harms and kills wildlife. The enormous machines crush and pulverize small animals. A vegetarian lifestyle is not without death and suffering to animals. I am choosing to look that death in the face without fear or shame. 4-H kids around the nation learn the same thing when they raise an animal they know will be used for meat when they are finished. I am glad that my kids are going to experience this lifestyle. I chose it in part for their sakes. When the tragedy of death comes into their life, they will be better able to put it in perspective as a natural thing that comes to us all.

 

[MCR_Rox]

There are ethical problems with milk and eggs, too. Go to Youtube and search for videos about milk abuse and egg abuse.


There are healthy ways to become vegetarian. Why not research on that, too? Why not buy your vegetables from smaller farms?

 

[wickedrodent]

If you can make the effort to do what you call 'responsible breeding' and 'humane killing' you can surely find other ways of helping the economy.

Try looking at this, there are lots of other fuels that don't require oil:
Alternative Fuel Vehicles

There are also probably dozens more that the goverment has yet to let on about.

Try these links too. There are many ways avaliable to keep the earth healthy than what you are proposing.

Solar Electric Power Association: Facilitating utility use and integration of solar electric power.

American Wind Energy Association

My motto is.. If there is a will, there is a way.

If you are serious about loving animals. You could become a vegetarian and find a way to stick to the diet. Start a small garden; you can buy vegetarian products from stores and just use the garden as a last resort if something did indeed happen.

 

[John4216]

As an FYI, GP do not even fit the livestock definition under Federal law. Here are a couple of examples:

9 C.F.R. § 301.2: (note this is the Federal Meat Inspection Act)

Livestock. Cattle, sheep, swine, goat, horse, mule, or other equine.

Meat. (1) The part of the muscle of any cattle, sheep, swine, or goats which is skeletal or which is found in the tongue, diaphragm, heart, or esophagus, with or without the accompanying and overlying fat, and the portions of bone (in bone-in product such as T-bone or porterhouse steak), skin, sinew, nerve, and blood vessels which normally accompany the muscle tissue and that are not separated from it in the process of dressing. As applied to products of equines, this term has a comparable meaning.

(i) Meat does not include the muscle found in the lips, snout, or ears.

(ii) Meat may not include significant portions of bone, including hard bone and related components, such as bone marrow, or any amount of brain, trigeminal ganglia, spinal cord, or dorsal root ganglia


7 C.F.R. § 205.2: (This is from the National Organic Program)

Livestock. Any cattle, sheep, goat, swine, poultry, or equine
animals used for food or in the production of food, fiber, feed, or
other agricultural-based consumer products...


Not to mention there are other State, County, Local and Federal laws and ordinances out there besides these 2. I just do not want to take the time to get them as these 2 should be enough to prove the point that GP's are seen as Pets rather than livestock in this country.

 

[MCR_Rox]

If you want to live in the US, you better respect the US culture.

 

[John4216]

Wicked, let me explain a little more about where I am coming from. I expect civilization as we know it to fall. I don't think our oil is going to hold out, and I don't think we are going to find an alternate, viable source of fuel anywhere near our needs before it does.

I know it is going to run out and have a pretty good guess when. Having a spouse who works for that industry has let me know what they are projecting in regards to that. And you are wrong, we will have power/energy when the time comes. $$$ is what it is about there.

That is my opinion. When and if that happens, a well-balanced vegetarian diet would be very difficult if not impossible to maintain. When and if that happens, I will be in a position to support my family and those around me.

Actually a vegarian diet is the easier of the two to maintain if we were to revert to pre-industrialized civilization. Growing "meat" takes a LOT more resources than just growing normal foodstuffs.

Their manure is a far superior fertilizer to industrially created fertilizers.

Wrong/Myth. That is not true sorry. I know that gets tossed around a lot but it simply is not true.


"when they claim that plants grown with natural fertilizers (such as manure) are nutritionally superior to those grown with synthetic fertilizers. Before they can use them, plants convert natural fertilizers into the same chemicals that synthetic fertilizers supply."

 

[thalestral]

I really don't see the point in this at all. It is just some form of entertainment to rub the deaths of animals that a community loves in their faces? It's just bizarre. I spend hundreds of pounds keeping my more frail animals in good health and here you are proclaiming that you are all loving and compassionate for killing yours.

This is a forum for those who love and adore a species as a pet, do you really think we want to know about yet more in the world being killed? That a pro-vegetarian forum will applaud you over your consumption of "happy meat"?

I find this whole thing extremely disturbing. Do what you want to the animals you "love", but why on earth are you unable to keep your incendiary opinions to yourself. On the other hand you are acting as a great advocate for a vegetarian diet and lifestyle. If there is anything positive to come out of this then I'm glad it remains open.

 

[WheeksUnlimited]

Sorry, but I don't think this was the proper way to intro yourself to this forum. Although I support your raising of livestock for your own consumption, I don't support raising guinea pigs for meat. This is the United States and we have guinea pigs for PETS. If you would have read and researched the forums, you would have seen that this site DOES NOT PROMOTE the breeding or eating of these creatures.

How would you feel if someone posted a thread on raising cats or dogs as livestock to eat????

Stick with raising cattle, sheep, swine, goat or poultry for your meat.

Or....Move to South America and raise your livestock guinea pigs.

 

[daftscotslass]

I do believe this is an elaborate wind-up.

 

[QuackXP]

If this is real and not just an elaborate trolling exercise. I do applaud you for wanting to live off the land and raise your own livestock. I think allot of people living in the modern era would have a serious issue if they had to raise or hunt their own meat for food. Then again allot of people in the modern era object to it and don't eat meet at all. As well as to many people out there are cute animal activists, cows and pigs can be there food but if another culture eats different animals epically ones that we have domesticated then it is suddenly wrong.

However any research would have yielded that domesticated cavy where bred for their external features not there robustness as livestock. I guess you could try to get some species of South American cavy imported into the US but I doubt you could get away with that legally.

Also the thought that you would get breeding help for livestock from a site that is specifically against breeding and for domesticated animals is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Maisiepaisie]

Stick with raising cattle, sheep, swine, goat or poultry for your meat.

Why? Are those animals less worthy?

Like others have said, I too am sickened by this thread but its more to do with the fact that Fillygate has no qualms about killing animals with her bare hands. What kind of person is capable of that? I cannot imagine how anyone can be of the mindset to do that.

I am also interested in why people are so vehemently opposed to eating some animals while they don't think twice about others. It is a view I find quite puzzling, personally.

Yes it puzzles me too. I hope that if nothing else this thread makes a few light bulbs switch on in peoples minds. No one needs to eat guinea pigs. No one needs to be eating any animals.

 

[fillycate]

There are ethical problems with milk and eggs, too. Go to Youtube and search for videos about milk abuse and egg abuse.

I am aware of that. That is why I produce my own milk and eggs.

We *are* a small farm. I grow produce and put it up for the winter.

 

[fillycate]

Like others have said, I too am sickened by this thread but its more to do with the fact that Fillygate has no qualms about killing animals with her bare hands.

How do you think people have lived since before civilization? I find it disturbing that people are willing to eat meat and won't deal with the reality of what eating meat means, the price that is paid.

If this thread convinces everyone on this forum to go vegetarian, that would be wonderful. I have no quarrel with vegetarians. I respect that you are being consistent in your beliefs. I do have a problem with being OK with killing and eating some animals and not others.

No, it doesn't bother me that some people eat cats and dogs. A pig is at least as intelligent as a dog. What concerns me is how pigs are treated while they live. Why should dogs in the United States be pampered and loved while pigs live in agony and horror? If society is going to eat meat, they should care well for the animals while they live. If nothing else, we should give more honor and care and concern to the animals destined to be food. We shouldn't hide them away and cover up the way they are raised and killed.

By doing what I do out in the open and being honest with people, yes I do open myself up for criticism. Better that than hide it away in secret where horrors can be covered up and perpetuated. Most slaughterhouses will not let peole observe what goes on inside.

John, I noticed the law didn't mention rabbits. They are considered meat livestock animals by many people and are commercially raised as such. Many people who try to live off the land at some time or other have raised rabbits for meat. I don't like raising rabbits for meat because it is much more difficult to give them more open living conditions in a practical way. The does with kits will fight with each other. Rabbits hop, climb, and dig, making them harder to keep free-range. I am committed to giving my livestock animals a happy life and I just don't see how I can do that with rabbits in a practical way.

 

[VoodooJoint]

This is my first visit to this thread so I will welcome you with a nice big "Hello Monster!"

Yes, monster. To most of use here that is what you appear to be. You are callous and cruel despite trying to convince us, and thus yourself, that you are not.

You plan on raising GPs for food? What a stupid idea. There is little meat on a GP and the killing/cleaning is not worth what it would yield. There is a reason it is considered a "delicacy" in South America and can be quite costly. There is far too much work, leftover waste and life loss.

You plan on killing your children's favorite chicken/pet. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not your child or for that matter even know you. How heartless. I'm certain your children's hearts and trust in you will heal the moment they taste that delicious flesh. There are other ways to care for a beloved pet that has a feather deformity then to kill it.

You say bleeding out is humane? You realize that the animal knows it is bleeding to death right? How in the world can prolonging an animal's death and leave it conscious to witness the slow ebb of it's life be humane? It's monstrous.

You question why we would have a problem with GPs being killed and eaten but not other animals. I have a HUGE problem with all animals dying for food. I don't eat them and many others here don't either. I do not need to eat an animal to survive and be healthy and will not cause suffering and death simply to stuff my face when I need not do it. If civilization fails, as you say it will (and it may), I will do what I need to do to survive even if that means killing and eating meat. There is a difference between survival and gluttony.

You are wasting everyone's time. You have no more interest in C&C cages and proper caring of GPs then you do in becoming a vegetarian. If you want to kill GPs and that is what it takes to satisfy your very obvious and disturbing blood lust then go right ahead.

No one here wants to hear about it. I do believe the vast majority here think you are every bit the monster I first welcomed you as and think there is something very wrong with you. You obviously crave attention for your antics. That is a worrying sign. You should see a psychiatrist. They have medications that can help you with your many issues.

Please take your delusions and sickness elsewhere. It is not welcomed here and if you continue oozing out your infected brain on this forum I will be forced to shut your mouth for you. You have disgusted everyone quite enough.

 

[fillycate]

I guess you could try to get some species of South American cavy imported into the US but I doubt you could get away with that legally.

Actually, there are articles on the web about a "Super Cavy" developed over the last 30 years in Peru at the La Molina University. They export these guinea pigs all over the world, and many of them to the US and Japan (there are Peruvian restaurants that serve guinea pig). I tried to contact the university on a couple of different occasions but the email was sent back undeliverable. But I honestly don't see how using a guinea pig raised specifically for meat in South America or moving to South America makes any difference ethically.

 

[socal805]

Ughh I was hoping this thread would be gone by now, Voodoo you are right, this person is a monster. He has said so many sickning things that I wouldn't even know where to begin in response. I feel ill just thinking about it.
As a person who has been a vegetarian for 16 years raising a vegetarian child what this person is doing goes against all of my core beliefs.
I do not think it is ok to kill and eat ANY animals and I certainly do not like the idea that you plan to raise and kill animals that we keep as beloved pets.
Go back to your farm and do what you want, just don't write about it here anymore.

 

[catzeye21138]

I'm not saying that I agree with this person but I am shocked Voodoo. That was a horrible thing to say. Just because someone doesn't have the same views as you do doesn't mean that they are oozing infection from the brain or need help from a psychiatrist! You do not know this person. They could be a troll, they could be a real person. You are not really in a position to judge someone you do not know personally.

And for all we know you could be oozing infection from the brain and already seeing a psychiatrist.

Sorry I've just had enough.

 

[VoodooJoint]

After thinking it over I have decided to demote Fillycate to Cavy Person on the basis that she will not respect the rules, principles and philosophies of this forum.

You have lost your rights to post in the Kitchen and Vegetarian sections.

If you post any more of this type of rubbish elsewhere in the forum your posts will likely get unapproved and you will get infracted and further rights stripped from you.

You may still get banned from the forum once the other mods and the owner weight in on this issue.

 

[daftscotslass]

I'm not saying that I agree with this person but I am shocked Voodoo. That was a horrible thing to say. Just because someone doesn't have the same views as you do doesn't mean that they are oozing infection from the brain or need help from a psychiatrist! You do not know this person. They could be a troll, they could be a real person. You are not really in a position to judge someone you do not know personally.

And for all we know you could be oozing infection from the brain and already seeing a psychiatrist.

Sorry I've just had enough.

You're making even more assumptions than anyone else has. What if? What if? What if? You are judging them yourself and, I assume, you're in no more of a position to do so than anyone else. Voodoo called them a monster, you're insinuating they're mentally ill. Pot kettle black.

Big deal. They post something deliberately offensive to the majority of people on here (while I'm not vegetarian I don't believe that guinea pigs are a viable source of meat to have as "livestock") then they need to deal with the consequences.