Dominance Grouping four boys together.

[AsianShelly]

HELLO ALL! I just wanted to say I am happy with having four boys now instead of two the last time I put up a thread. Couldn't help myself and my friends are bad influences on me(but I don't care, my piggies are a big part of my life). I know that this is an issue that cannot be helped but I wanted to see how some of you dealt with it accordingly. I have two new editions to my family. Zim and Gir were my first pair, I introduced Dib (I describe him as the color of Candy corn cuz he looks like one so SQUEE) and there was alot of Purring? (sounded like a mower ruttering lol) from both Zim and Gir, both tend to mount Dib alot, it's kinda heart breaking hearing him squeal but there was no aggression between the three except when Gir tries to mount Dib (still no aggression, no biting or blood drawn as I had researched). Then I got Gaz, he's the youngest and the smallest in my litter of boys and looks like a baby skunk-kinda lol , and placed them all in a neutral area. Once again, a lot of purring/ruddering and swaying of the hips/body from my two dominant boys. But I thought it would be best to wait for Gaz to get bigger first before placing him with the big boys, so I placed Dib inside with him so he wouldn't get so lonely (and with Dib being the insubordinate male it seems to work). There has been some purring and swaying of the hips from Dib, but he doesn't mount Gaz (to my relief but he's a good big brother, even tried to show Gaz some of the jingling cat toys I bought them when he was hiding so cute). Idk if I am doing the right thing in waiting for these two to be more confident before introducing them back into the herd. I know that males can be grouped together in one cage (of course with the appropriate size), but I want to see if anyone can give me tips in the whole mounting thing. I've let them out in a large area for floor time (all of them) with plenty of room and they continue to purr/rudder, swaying of the hips and mounting. But I have noticed that by separating the two groups the smaller Gaz and Dib are becoming more confident and will tell both Gir/Zim off when they do try to come and mount. Am I doing the right thing?

 

[bpatters]

Read (broken link removed). The Introductions section is about halfway down the page.

The main thing to avoid is repeatedly putting them together and then separating them. If they're all doing ok with floor time together in a large area, then you can keep doing that. But if they're trying to see who's the boss pig, then keep them apart until you're ready to let them live together permanently. Putting them together and separating them just means they have to start the dominance behaviors all over again every time, and it's stressful for the pigs.

 

[AsianShelly]

I am not trying to sound stupid or ignorant (really not my intention at all), so basically just kinda ignore the high cries and squeaks but monitor for aggression?

 

[bpatters]

Yep, that's it. You have to worry about bites because of the danger of abscesses. Everything else is just dominance drama.

 

[AsianShelly]

As the great Ace Ventura would say, "Aaaalllllllllrrrriiiiight then!" Does that go for the same for the little one? I am not sure how old he is, but he is like half the size of all three big boys. I've done as much research as I could, and they say that it might be not a good idea to stick the little (idk size or poundage wise) one inside with the big boys because they would bully him. Sorry for all the questions! >_< BUT THANK YOU!

 

[bpatters]

If the little one is really being bullied to the point that he can't eat, drink, or sleep, then you'll have to separate him, or him and a buddy. Just don't jump the gun on doing it -- he may be better able to take care of himself than you think.

 

[AsianShelly]

Otay! Thank you soooo much!

 

[AsianShelly]

Sorry but my curiosity is getting a hold of me. I've combined all four boys together in one cage, of course as was determined by bpatters, there were alot of dominance dancing. Just recently my two older boys started to fight, both are very dominant and before they were able to co-exist. I checked all my boys and no females (thank god) but I am not understanding y they are fighting. So I separated them after their first tumble. I did research on the cavyspirit on social (as was suggested) and it said that possible separation for a little while might help them cool off. And am going to take some considerations in attempting some of them to see if they will be fine to co-exist. I don't want to separate the boys, but Ik in the end it might be a big possibility. Utter sadness here.

 

[pinky]

What size is your cage? Did you completely disinfect the cage and accessories before putting them all together? It's better not to separate them once you put them together unless there's bloodshed.

 

[lissie]

How big is your cage? For four boys to live together, the cage should exceed the recommended size.

 

[AsianShelly]

I made a 2 by 5 grid cage (by accident, my dad helped me make the cage and we didn't make the proper measurement and he is coming up this weekend to help me re-evaluated the cage itself so we can make it bigger for all four boys.) I separated them due to some little scraps, I noticed that my older (not older but the one I had the longest) had a little scrape above his eye, so I separated the two dominate ones quickly. Waited about an hour to see if maybe they would cool off first while I did my research. Put them together and they kinda left each other alone, came home yesterday more teeth chattering and swaying of the hips. Didn't see any tumbling or fighting, but still I wanted to be safe then sorry and went ahead and separated them. I plan on doing a COMPLETE show down cleaning of the cage tonight. I take at least one complete day to do an overall cleaning of the cage but it's usually on a sat/sunday of each week plus on spot cleaning once a day, but one of the suggestions that was made in Cavy Spirit is that giving all four boys a bath together so that they (the two older ones) would be afraid (not literally afraid but not like the bath) and forget the reason y they were mad at each other in the first place and to drop a little lavender oil on them to make them smell good?

 

[pinky]

A 2x5 is too small for 4 males. I have three females in a 2x 5 and I think it's an okay for them but would be too small for 3 males. It wasn't big enough when I had three females and a neutered male in there.

 

[AsianShelly]

I understand completely, my primary intention from the beginning was to make a 2X6 with a 1X3 edition to one side and have a second level, either 2X3. By accident we made a 2X5 with the edition of a 1X3 because of the small time I had my family (work and travel), my dad and I didn't measure the grids appropriately (we are both military so we pretty much kicked our selves in the behind for that) and did it with assumptions. He is coming up this weekend to help me plan out more ideas and throw a couple of curve balls for the boys to have a very Interesting cage all together. I finally found a place who will sell me scraps of coroplast for a better price then I would ordering it online. I still plan on making the cage 2X6 with the edition of a 1X3 and a second level of a 2X4 or a 1X4 or overall make it a 3X6 with a 2X4 second level and it will be done ASAP before I get too busy in the next couple of months.

 

[AsianShelly]

I just wanted to see if my two older boys would still be able to live together (when the appropriate room is provided ASAP) after their scraps or two. The two little ones just seem to just be able to move around and live together just fine (with the occasion of being mounted by Zim/Gir).

 

[pinky]

Keep in mind that the area on a single level is what's important for adequate space for multiple guinea pigs. The idea is they need room to run and get away from each other while they are all on that same level. A 2 x 6 might still be a tight squeeze for 4 males, especially if one is dominant. I felt like it was tight for my 3 females and neutered male when I had them in a 2 x 6. In my case,the problem wasn't due to dominance issues but due to the amount of poop from the four of them. If you can swing it, the 3 x 6 would be much better. You wouldn't even necessarily need the second level. A lot of people love the multi-level cages but I found it to be difficult to clean under and not used that much by my guinea pigs so I took it off. Others love it. You might want to expand the single level first and see how they do. Then add another level if you decide you want to give it a try.

 

[AsianShelly]

I L-O-V-E the idea of the of the 3X6 but i wasn't sure about the space I had in my apartment, until I saw the 2X6 with the edition of the 1X3 (making one side 3X3 and a 2X3) and I think I can budge it. Just gotta re-evaluate the plans with my dad (he's the carpenter and I am his assistant), it'll be successful. If I wasn't going to have a roommate I would totally have my guest bedroom be a complete maze for my four boys. Alas I am getting two roommates, but they absolutely love the idea of me making the cage bigger (more like extend to the 3X6 with building up with a second level) that might be a 1X6 with a ramp on both sides) Thank you very much for making me want to CONFIRM the 3X6 idea!!!!!!!! Much appreciated Hoo-AH!

 

[foggycreekcavy]

Whenever there's a change, there's a chance that males who previously got along will fight. They need to establish dominance all over again. What you're doing, by removing them and then putting them back together, is causing them to get very, very upset and uncertain, so they are hyper-sensitive about dominance issues.

Wait until you get the cage reconfigured. Then try all four together. Don't remove anyone.

About the baby--I've actually found that a large size difference helps, and is not dangerous to the smaller pig. Males don't usually see babies as threats, and more easily accept them than a pig more their size.

Mounting is something that happens, whether your pigs have lived together for awhile or not. Some males mount everyone every time the cage is cleaned! It's usually better for there to be submissive pigs who just take it in stride. It's when you have pigs that all want to be the dominant one that you have problems.

 

[AsianShelly]

Yea....I am still learning (I tend to learn fast and quickly) so SORRY IF I AM A PAIN! I like this site get to meet different people with different suggestions and I take every suggestion that is given. I may not be smart, but like I said I am a quick learner. So THANK YOU TO ALL!

 

[AsianShelly]

So status update...it has been already set in play. Attempted the bathing together and putting lavender oil on their noses...worked for about ten minutes after their bath (including the drying) they pretty much ignored each other while Zim did the whole mounting, even attempted to mount Gir but he kept running away. Woke up this morning with the boys having a tumble. Blood was drawn, wound was cleaned and my boy Gir is in a separate cage. I am a little sad that now my four boys can't live together. But the plan of making the cage bigger is still the primary mission here, I will make a 3 by 6 cage and have it divided in a 2 X3 with an addition of a 1 X 2) or just make a complete second level cage (making them both a 2 x 5) and have 2 and 2 in each of them (just so one is not alone and will have a companion just gotta think of whom to separate and pair up). I am a little sad that my four can't seem to get along (just the two older ones, I think Zim is still peeved that Gir won't accept that he is the dominate male) so possibly I might try in two weeks, give the boys their time apart with a divider in the cage. So the status has been made and I am willing to accept that. Still sad. :weepy:

 

[Inle_Rabbit]

I'm sorry. I was hoping it would work out! =(