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Sick Chico and Amigo's med thread

4boipigs

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After some thinking, I'm debating something else is happening and it's not actual aggression. First, they aren't showing a ton of aggression. Maple Leaf and Trishula would rumble, hump, chase, and yawn. They were out to cause trouble. Amigo and Charlie are just doing a bit of chasing, and a lot of rumbling and teeth chattering. I haven't seen full blown aggression like the other boys.

Charlie is VERY skittish. I haven't ever had a pig who would hide at every sound and movement. He teeth chatters at me or when he see hands. I think part of this is him being super afraid.

Amigo is the one being aggressive. He doesn't like Charlie being very close to him. Charlie likes to stand in front of the hides (one entrance) and then Amigo would get worked up. I removed those hides, and replaced them with boxes and fleece hangs for now.

The fight this morning was right when I woke up, so I'm wondering if I spooked Charlie and that's what set things off between the two.

They eat around each other and otherwise aren't actively out to cause trouble, unlike how Maple Leaf and Trishula were.

I don't know how to proceed...Amigo has a cut on his lip and his nose from the incident this morning. I read this is common when they get trapped, but honestly I don't remember if he was trapped in the hide. I'm on the fence about keeping vs separating, especially since I'd have to expand the cage and I hate reducing their space.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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I had that happen once, between Pooper and Sly. Pooper ended up with a gash on his nose after chasing Sly into a pigloo. They lived several more years together. They werent the best of buddies but did cohabitate peacefully.

I think Charlie and Amigo could benefit from some more time. I don't think all is lost at this point.
 

4boipigs

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I had that happen once, between Pooper and Sly. Pooper ended up with a gash on his nose after chasing Sly into a pigloo. They lived several more years together. They werent the best of buddies but did cohabitate peacefully.

I think Charlie and Amigo could benefit from some more time. I don't think all is lost at this point.

I hope so. I'm just so uncertain because all the other pairs (Chico and Amigo; Bruin and Little Bear; Little Bear and Gimbly; and to some extent Maple Leaf and Gimbly) all got along quite well. The two are eating hay together, but they continue to have nose-offs and lunge at some points. No actual full-on fights, just a couple seconds of a tussle. I don't know if I mentioned it, but I removed all one-way hides and added a fleece forest and a box instead.

I have the supplies to separate if needed. I'd just have to go buy another folding table for expanding the cage. They're on a six foot table right now. But seperating is a last resort I don't want unless they have a final battle like Maple Leaf and Trishula.

As for Charlie's name...I decided to go a different way. Trishula is named after a monster in the Yu-Gi-Oh card game. Charlie can be a companion to that monster, Gungnir. So when Amigo dies, the next pig will continue on with another monster's name in that set. So eventually everyone will match! Admittedly, I haven't switched Charlie's name because the anxiety of them fighting was making me debate keeping him. But he's so unique, and Amigo is older and doesn't have a lot of life left (probably) that I may as well just keep him even if they have to be separated. I can't help getting nervous when I see them fighting like that.
 

ItsaZoo

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I hope they can start to at least co-exist for now. It’s a big change for both of them, so maybe when Charlie gets more used to the sounds of the house and isn’t so anxious they will both settle down.
 

4boipigs

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They did a lot better yesterday. I was home all day so I was able to watch them. They both cause trouble. Amigo doesn't like Charlie getting close. Charlie isn't doing anything in particular - just getting too close for Amigo's liking. Sometimes Charlie will visit Amigo while Amigo is in a hide, or get spooked and run into the same hide as Amigo. Overall, behavior is much more subdued and toned down. I think the bite to Amigo's lip was an accident when I spooked Charlie.

Removing all one-way hides definitely helped. Charlies LOVES the fleece forest.

Regardless of how much they like each other, Amigo definitely feels more at ease. He was resting out in the open yesterday, just like he did when Chico was alive. Hopefully Charlie will relax a bit too. He'll hide at pretty much any movement, but he's started to take treats from me while hiding.
 

4boipigs

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They're still doing quite well together.

Amigo does have one weird new behavior I noticed. I had to remove their one-way hides, and replaced them with fleece forests. Charlie aka Gungnir LOVES them. Amigo on the other hand has started hanging out in a corner of their kitchen. He doesn't seem in distress or anything, and just lays there comfortably and comes away to eat. I put a tunnel there and a fleece square to give him some comfort. It bothers me that he isn't sleeping anywhere else, but nothing necessarily seems wrong (poops are fine, eating fine) and no signs of bullying.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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Sounds like Amigo is just finding a new normal. All of my pigs have done similar things. Sleeping out in the open in weird places, changing their routines, things like that when there has been a major change.

I am very happy to hear that they are getting along well. They likely just need time to settle in together.
 

4boipigs

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So it's been about a month since I started the Sherwood urinary tablets and changed diet and things are going great! Amigo still isn't crying. It's amazing. I haven't weighed him weekly like I was doing, so idk if his weight has improved.

As for his relationship with Gungnir, it's going fairly well. They got everything sorted out. They mainly only bicker when Gungnir wants to be in the same hide as Amigo. I think Gungnir just wants to be close in a friendly guinea pig way, but Amigo doesn't approve. The other day, Gungnir did have a humping fest, and Amigo has the outcome (boar glue) all over his backside. Idk if I can get it out, or if I should just cut his fur.

Gungnir is still very shy and flees at any movement I make. He will take treats from me, but that's it.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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I truly am happy to hear that Amigo is doing well. I also hope that he lives out the rest of his days happy and pain free with his new buddy.

You already know this, but it's going to take Gungnir lots of time to be comfortable where he is and who he's with. I know he'll come around. Leo is the same way with Simon that Gungnir is with Amigo. Leo is the boss, but he just has to be wherever Simon is.
 

4boipigs

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Amigo has clicky breathing. He has no discharge. I tried to listen to him against my ear but didn't hear any junk in his lungs. It'll be a bit tricky to get him to the vet in the next few days. He's eating, so it isn't that bad yet. Unfortunately I don't have any leftover meds that may help him feel better, aside from metacam. That was for his bladder stone pain, which I haven't given for weeks since he didn't need it.
 

4boipigs

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I got a vet appt for today so we'll be going in soon. I got home from work and Amigo isn't clicky-breathing, but he's puffed up. Breathing hard too. Still eating. Maybe this will be my chance to do xrays and see if the Sherwood urinary tablets dissolved any stones/sludge like they claim. I'll probably only take Amigo and not Gungnir due to the heat and my a/c not being all that great. I'll have ice packs tho.
 

4boipigs

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The bad news is Amigo has heart failure. His heart was normal in April and now the vet suspects fluid around his heart. So I am trying to get the meds online. I am waiting on furosemide from CVS. I want to keep him around as long as I can but if this came on fast, we may not have much time.

The good news is the bladder stone is GONE. I was so excited that I didn't notice the bad pic I took but I attached the before and after rads. I'll be keeping my boys on their low calcium diet, filtered water and Sherwood tabs.
 

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Guinea Pig Papa

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The bad news is Amigo has heart failure. His heart was normal in April and now the vet suspects fluid around his heart. So I am trying to get the meds online. I am waiting on furosemide from CVS. I want to keep him around as long as I can but if this came on fast, we may not have much time.

The good news is the bladder stone is GONE. I was so excited that I didn't notice the bad pic I took but I attached the before and after rads. I'll be keeping my boys on their low calcium diet, filtered water and Sherwood tabs.
I am stunned that the stone is gone. Utterly stunned. But at the same time very, very happy. Food for thought in the future when we run into this again.

I am saddened to find out that he does indeed have CHF. It always seems that once a diagnosis of CHF is made, the timeline always seems to be about six months give or take. I do hope you can get him on a good medication regimen and keep him around as long as you can.
 

4boipigs

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I'm hoping he does better than Bruin did, but Bruin didn't come from a family that cared about him. Bruin was so happy despite his problems. Amigo has been poofed up a lot more, but he's still eating.

Amigo's lungs were clear, and there was no murmur. For Bruin, his lungs were full of fluid, and that fluid blocked the view of his heart.

Amigo is obviously not as bad as Bruin, but the sudden onset is scary.

I got his furosemide yesterday and ordered theophylline and pimopenden online - both compounded. I was desperate for furosemide since I know it helped Bruin, so I was out looking for it everywhere. Only one pharmacy had it, and one claimed it wasn't made anymore. I know we have it at work, but we can't dispense meds to pets who aren't our patients.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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I do hope he responds well to his treatment.

I know the sudden onset seems scary. My vet very eloquently summed that up that "suddenness" in one sentence some years ago, when Sly was starting his surgeries for his dental problem.

I also mentioned to him how suddenly it seemed to happen. His response was, "A month is a long time in the life of a guinea pig."

When I stepped back and thought about that, it made perfect sense. They have relatively short lives. Their sleep/ wake cycles are short. A day to us, may be a week or a couple of weeks to them. Their metabolisms are high.

If a month to us was a year to a guinea pig, an average life span of a guinea pig at 6 years, would roughly equal 72 human years. A long time in the life of a guinea pig, indeed.

Keep us posted on how he does with treatment. Rooting for Amigo in a big way here. They, and you, have had enough heartache in the last little while,.
 

4boipigs

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Idk what to do...I have been debating when to pts. He was 931 grams on Friday at the vet. I weighed him a couple different ways at home today, and he's around 790grams. His poops are getting tiny. He is still eating hay some but not as much as he should. He loves treats. He rests more. His breathing doesn't seem worse but idk if the furosemide is really working. I know there is no coming back from heart failure, but once again like with Bruin, I don't want to do it 'too soon'.
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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I am so sorry he isn't doing better. I had really hoped he would improve quickly.

Small poops, coupled with that weight loss, mean he isn't eating enough. It's definitely time to supplement with Critical Care. You already know that a loss that big is critical.

If you can stabilize his weight enough with the critical care to give the furosemide and whatever other meds he is on a chance to work, I would say do it. But that level of weight loss is scaring me. Whenever I had a pig lose that much weight, or more in a short period of time, they ended up not being with me much longer. Punkin lost over 100 grams overnight, just before I lost him. I knew it was time, and he knew too. He was telling me.

Furosemide is also a strong diuretic, so its possible he's lost a fair bit of fluids which can account for the weight loss. Keeping him hydrated with water via syringe, and even some unflavoured pedialyte can only help.
 
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