Bullying

[piggiesinpa]

Can someone give me a run down of what pigs do to one another to constitute bullying? I have been seeing some issues going on with 2 of my pigs and I think it has surpassed the normal dominance dance and gone into bullying. My older pig chases the baby pig around the cage a lot. The baby pig (Tumbleweed) gets very scared and hides in his corner for a good portion of his day. He stays away from HG (the older pig) as much as possible and just downright seems fearful. Anytime he eats, HG will come over and scare him away. He has been gaining weight and seems healthy so I know he is managing to eat without disruption some of the time, but I am just concerned about it. HG is an aggressive piggy. No blood has been drawn but I need to make sure he isn't showing issues of bullying.

What should I be looking out for? What are the signs?

 

[clotho]

What size cage did you end up making for HG & Tumbleweed? If you have a big cage and put a food dish and water bottle at each end, HG won't be able to keep Tumbleweed from the food all the time. Perhaps even if you have a large enough cage, you should try to go bigger if you can. Maybe HG is just one of those piggies who needs even more space.

I'm so sorry to hear your HG is starting to have issues again! I was SO hoping this was the right match and that he would settle down.

The only thing I know is that everyone says to leave them unless there is bloodshed. As Tumbleweed grows, he will probably start to defend himself more.

With my boys, there was a lot of nosing off, rumbling, and even a few nips, and I ignored it all. I didn't decide to separate Stripes until the day came when the two "teenage" boys started ganging up on Stripes and attacking him mercilessly. That's when I gave up and got poor Stripes out of there.

 

[piggiesinpa]

The cage in total is a 7x3. Because of HG's problems with other pigs, I have put a divider down the middle to give a total of 3.5x3 for each side (with 2 pigs on each side - total of 4 pigs). Unless it's suggested otherwise I am going to leave the pigs alone. They get along except for the fact that HG scares Tumbleweed a good bit. They run - it is not a little chase, Tumble gets scared and floors it to the other side of the cage. Some of it I think comes from him not being able to stick up for himself and being so young. I just don't know what to do with HG sometimes, he can be absolutely mean. I am pretty convinced that he is right below a year old and this is a puberty thing. When I first got him, he didn't aggress so much and did well with Moe.

 

[piggiesinpa]

I am bumping this because the problem has increased. I have noticed some tuffs of hair on a few occassions. Tumbleweed is doing poorly socially. He isn't warming up like all of my other pigs have and still fears people. He is still young and some of this is probably normal, but I have never seen such fearful behavior.
He is scared and hides for a good portion of his day. He makes sounds that let me know he is scared and stressed. He is antsy and is told what to do all the time. He just seems completely unhappy and sad.
HG is bossing him around and only allowing him a little time to come out of his pigloo. Their chases have increased in severity and frequency. I am positive he is bullying poor Tumbleweed and I will not stand for it.
HG is also being aggressive with myself and boyfriend. He teeth chatters at us when we get him and pet him. When he is not picking on Tumbleweed he runs up and down the separator portion of the cage and wheeks at Moe and Milkdud. He will hang out here and just make sounds at them and chatter at them if they come by.
I am considering removing Tumbleweed and letting him live with Moe and Milkdud. I think that HG is an aggressive pig who cannot live with other pigs. He is very into his space and his things. He has plenty of space and tries to control everything in it. He only did well with Moe for about one week prior to freaking out and trying to dominate the world.

What are your suggestions? I feel as though the three of the piggies will be fine and HG will have to live alone. I will move the divider so that the 3 piggies will get 3x5 space and HG will get 3x2 space.

 

[envisionary333]

I'm sorry, that sounds like a tough situation. What is HG's history, was he well socialized when you adopted him? Has he been to the vet for a check up recently to make sure there aren't any physical problems that could be causing his irritability? I think your best bet would be to separate Tumbleweed from HG so he can live with the other boys and have a positive social experience with other guinea pigs. Otherwise, I would be worried that he would grow up to fear people and guinea pigs alike. Some guinea pigs just don't do well with cage mates, unfortunately. I would consider giving HG a 3x3 instead of a 3x2 so he has more space to himself, and then your other three piggies will still have plenty of room in a 3x4. Another option would be to make a very small hole in the divider so Tumbleweed could visit HG if he wanted to, but always have the option of getting away from him.

 

[piggiesinpa]

Thank you envisonary. HG used to live with another pig, but they were both fairly neglected and scared of the world. I adopted him because I had another pig at home. He was pretty good at first, they were doing well and then a week later, all heck broke loose. I always felt that he was either hardly handled or handled WAY too much (improperly) by kids.
I am defiantly going to be taking him to a vet soon. I have talked to one about his aggressive behavior and it is said that he seems like a pig that just needs to be alone. I have removed Tumbleweed, he immediately introduced himself and the three are doing great. They sorta knew each other through the divider, had a dominance dance, and have been cuddling since. Tumbleweed was instantly vibrant and running around all over. He is happier already.
HOWEVER - HG is about to lose his mind. He can see and hear what is going on. He keeps pacing by the divider and pushing his head into it to try and make it open or something. It is pretty bad. Is this normal?
I would put the divider with the small hole, but HG is a con artist and has successfully managed to weasel his way into the other side before on the small hole grid.

 

[envisionary333]

Hopefully HG will calm down as he adjusts to being by himself, otherwise I would consider moving his cage away from the other piggies so he doesn't get distraught. Have you tried giving him a stuffed animal to bully around? Maybe you could rub it in Tumbleweed's scent so he can have a pseudo "cage mate"? I have no idea if that would help, but it's worth a try. You could also consider having him fixed or adopting a fixed girl to live with him, but I would want to be sure he wouldn't bully her before you go through the whole procedure. I think that an aggressive male is less likely to be aggressive with a female around, especially if he's neutered. My neutered boy almost never humps his 10 female cage mates anymore, and they get along fabulously.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck! Let us know how things progress and how the vet visit goes.

 

[suzilovespiggie]

My male boar, Skunk, is like HG. Every time I have tried to pair him with another pig. He bullies and bites up the other pig. I put a baby with him, an older layed back pig, every combination I could think of. None has worked. I have six boys. Two are in one C&C, three in another, and Skunk by himself. The cages all are placed next to each other so they all share a side. That way they can talk and be close to one another but still talk and sniff each other. Skunk does not show the behaviour HG is doing to the grids. He is calm, talks to his friends,sniffs and they to him. He wants to be with them, but when he is he is mean. So this was my best soultion.
Hope it works out for you. Glad Tumbleweed is happier.

 

[clotho]

I'm sorry it didn't work out having a new friend for HG.

I am wondering, in these situations where you have an overly aggressive male piggie, if pairing him with a female (and getting one of them neutered) would be a good match or if he would continue to be too aggressive even with a female. I would be interested to hear others' experiences with this.

 

[envisionary333]

I'm wondering that as well. I think that a male-female match would be more likely to work since males aren't usually as territorial with females, but I think it would be best if the male was neutered so his hormones don't go into overdrive and cause him to be overbearing. Otherwise, I would be worried about him physically harassing the female.

 

[piggiesinpa]

Yes, that is the thing right now. I just do not know if HG is just in the heights of puberty or if he is just this aggressive. I am going to give him some time alone and let him figure out how he likes it. If I see him beginning to show signs of loneliness and calming down I will then consider a partner for him. I feel like right now is not a good time to figure it out, I think he would only drive another piggy out, regardless of sex.
Since yesterday, he has calmed down a little bit. He isn't as determined to get to the other side but he keeps trying to chew on the divider grid and sits by it incase a pig walks by. When they do, he smells them and then teeth chatters. He watches them to see what they are doing. I don't think he is pleased that he doesn't have a punching bag. Even though he is still being aggressive, his behavior since last night has improved a bit.

 

[envisionary333]

If he continues to show frustration, you could put up a temporary coroplast divider over the grids so he can't see them, but can still hear and smell them. I had to do that before my boy was neutered because he would gnaw at the bars all day trying to get to the ladies.

 

[piggiesinpa]

That would be okay? I figured he would just get more upset because he would hear but couldn't see.

 

[envisionary333]

I guess it depends on the piggy and the situation, but you could certainly try it. My boy would chew up the bars and try to fit his face through to sniff the girls' butts, and once I put the coroplast up he completely forgot about them!

 

[piggiesinpa]

Wow, I need to get some extra coro then and take care of that. Hopefully he will take a chill pill and I can figure out the next plan of action.