Where People & Piggies Thrive

Newbie or Guinea Guru? Popcorn in!

Register for free to enjoy the full benefits.
Find out more about the NEW, drastically improved site and forum!

Register

Appalled: Children breeding.

C&K

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Posts
2,422
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
2,422
That is so sad. I know you are doing what you can. Is this lady at the Humane Society at all willing to help?

I wonder why the babies died. I suppose we will never know. I don't know if she is a lethal or not, but the babies could not have been. I really hope they got the dad out in time. It would be just so sad to see her have back to back litters

Keep us posted, and let us know if there is anything we can do to help.
 

salana

Lethal Guru
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
1,859
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
1,859
Oh, good, she's probably just an undernourished ordinary white pig. Ordinary pink-eyed white pigs are red pigs with a gene that prevents them from actually making red hair.
 

C&K

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Posts
2,422
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
2,422
Oh, good, she's probably just an undernourished ordinary white pig. Ordinary pink-eyed white pigs are red pigs with a gene that prevents them from actually making red hair.

I know I have said this before, but that is just so sad. Not only did they breed her with the intention of disposing her once the "lesson was learned", but they did not even take care of her properly? Despite you telling them how to? that is just awful!
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
I checked Momma piggie's teeth. They are perfectly even and come together the way they are suppose too. The bottom of her feet are fine as will. She just had red leaf lettece and it is gone. Still don't have a name for her. Just been calling her Momma piggie. She is a very sweet pig. She even let my grandson hold her.

Like I said, she is very small and sleek. She isn't fat looking at all so I am hoping she is not back breed. The owner insisted they took the boar out as soon as they noticed she was having babies.
 

citronsoul

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Posts
903
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Messages
903
salana said:
Oh, good, she's probably just an undernourished ordinary white pig. Ordinary pink-eyed white pigs are red pigs with a gene that prevents them from actually making red hair.

Just out of general interest, but is the PEW a dominant gene? Why isn't it albino if they've got pink eyes? (I've tried explaining why Porky isn't an albino to friends & family, but I honestly don't know. I just know he's not albino.)
 

salana

Lethal Guru
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
1,859
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
1,859
(Non-lethal) white pigs are caused by an allele of a gene C. There's a ton of these alleles--the most dominant is referred to as C and it produces full-strength red where other genes allow for red pigment. (The gene that regulates red vs. black is called E, and there are other genes that cause white patches, like S and the roan gene.)

If you look at a page that shows all the alleles of C in guinea pigs, like (broken link removed), you will see a LONG list. Basically, the allele that produces undiluted red is stronger than the one that produces buff, which is stronger than the one that produces PEWs and silver agoutis, which is stronger than the one that produces Himalayans, which would be stronger than true albino if there had ever been a true albino pig observed.

True albino would mean that the melanosomes, little structures which make pigment, would try and try to make pigment and never succeed. In PEWs and DEWs and silver agoutis, the melanosomes are great at making black pigment when that's what's called for, but their red pigment never works. In Himalayan pigs, the black pigment works unless it gets too hot, so it breaks everywhere but the nose, ears, and feet.

So PEW isn't a dominant allele, although it's dominant over Himalayan. It would be dominant over albino, if there was such a thing in guinea pigs.

Since pigment genes are pretty homologous in most mammals, you can read about (broken link removed) to get a more technical view of what's going on. The PEW allele is referred to as Chinchilla on that page.
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
Does PEW mean pink eyed white. I called her an albino as there is not other color on her but white with the pink/red looking eyes. She is a love, already coming up to the side of her C&C cage looking for treats and a pet. I love her already and am so glad I took her.
 

salana

Lethal Guru
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Posts
1,859
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
1,859
PEW=pink eyed white
DEW=dark eyed white
(Both have the same genes making them white; pink eyes are controlled by a different gene.)

I'm glad you took her too. She'll have a much better and probably longer life than she would have if you hadn't.
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
Does PEW mean pink eyed white. I called her an albino as there is not other color on her but white with the pink/red looking eyes. She is a love, already coming up to the side of her C&C cage looking for treats and a pet. I love her already and am so glad I took her.
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
Sorry, do not know why it printed twice. Thank for the info.
 

jsmhwyatt

Active Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Posts
22
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
22
Suzilovespiggie- I just read through this thread and I can not believe that any school would okay the breeding of animals. :eye-poppi It makes me sick. I already know that if it was my child at school I would be up there leading a protest! I also want to let you know that you are special and doing a great job putting the time and effort in trying to change these ignorant people who believe that breeding is okay to be a school project.:) I just can't imagine where all the piggies that were born are going to end up. :(
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
I probabley could to more if I had kids in the school, but I don't. Right now I am just a concerned citizen and not to many are paying any attention to me. The only parent I know it the one I work with and she thinks I'm being fanatic. She did let me take the mother pig so I am grateful for that. That at least will keep Momma Pig from being a breeder. The other 3 which I think are boys and Daddy went to the petshop for $3.00. Two of the babies died. The 3 were just 3 weeks old so I hope they are old enough to be on their own. The project is over and the family left for Disneyland. I had asked for the teachers name as I wanted to talk to her so I could ask her to stop, But I have not been given her name. I thought maybe I could go into the school and share what really happens to piggies from this type of project. Let the kids know the truth so they could make a choice not to do this. All I have gotten is "breeding is not against the law, so therefore the Humane Society or the Animal Control can't do anything about it"
If I had a child in that classroom, believe me I would have been raising ----.
I am not sure I am done with this yet. I need to find out if this is school wide or just one teacher. I have some more calls to make. Like my sister used to say, "It aint over till it's over."
 

C&K

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Posts
2,422
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
2,422
Why not see if you can get a letter to the editor in your local paper. Just say basically what you said. (This following letter may be a bit long though, maybe something like this would be good to go to the local schools principles and news reporters? You seem very well spoken in print though, I am just saying this as an example.) If you could get local coverage for the issue, that would be great. Please don't give up on advocating for the pigs. We are all behind you, just tell us who to write to, and we will help!
It has come to my attention that a class in our community bred guinea pigs for a science project. I have been involved with one family which acquired a breeding pair at a petstore with no consideration for the pigs genetics and not knowing how to properly care for the pigs. I helped them as best I could with acquiring the right supplies, this was all through communications with the mother, the child learned no lessons in animal husbandry. Approximately 70 days later, the experiment came to an end with 2 dead babies (possibly because of the parents genetics) and 3 surviving babies. Subsequently, all the pigs where boxed up and sold to a petshop for Easter; with the exception of the mother because the petstore did not think she would sell. (I agreed to take her in)

Currently we have (insert number here) guinea pigs in shelters within an hour of our municipality, however I strongly feel that this issue is bigger then just the guinea pigs. I have been told many times in contacting local authorities and humane societies that "they are just rodents (also the attitude of the parent I am in contact with who allowed the project) and that "breeding is not illegal". However, considering the rampant dog and cat overpopulation in our area, I wonder how helpful such attitudes are, and what the real lessons in breeding these animals as a classroom project where.

I feel the project itself had limited scientific purpose, any child in middle school already knows where babies come from, any other details learned are available through print resources and do not need to be experienced first hand. However, I strongly feel that the social lessons learned by this project are very negative. Through the act of buying animals, and breeding them just to get a good mark on a class room assignment, and then tossing the animals away, further ingrains in the impressionable mind of a child that animals are disposable possessions, If we as a community are ever going to get on top of the pet over population crisis, we need a serious change in attitude. We need to teach our children that acquiring and agreeing to care for an animal is a life long responsibility, and in breeding animals, the current population of the animals and what you are going to do with the offspring if you cannot find suitable homes for them. It is also necessary to consider the genetics and well-being / possible vet care that may arise from breeding any animal. I am deeply concerned that such activities are allowed to occur at a school. If you don't agree, feeling that guinea pigs are only rodents, I would like to ask you how you would feel if instead of guinea pigs, the class was breeding cats or dogs? Would your sentiment towards the project be different? consider the fact, the lessons taught in breeding rodents or cats and dogs are the exact same!

As a member of this community, if this issue concerns you, please voice your objections to your children's schools and _____________.
 

l_eris_l

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Posts
50
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
50
Definitely don't give up yet!

I'm sure the school has no idea what the problems with breeding guinea pigs are. Bring it to their attention how it can be dangerous for the mother, lethal genes, the current cavy overpopulation in that area, etc.

And schools don't want bad press, so if you threaten to make this public, they might speak to the teacher(s) involved and try to stop this from happening again.


~Eris~
 

suzilovespiggie

Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Posts
2,752
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
2,752
cavies-and-kids, what a Great letter! I will use it. Thank you so very much.
 

C&K

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Posts
2,422
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
2,422
:)
Glad to help, just it may need some tweeking, I am noticing today a few problems with capitalization and possibly grammer. If you have Word it would be good to run it through that.

If we as a community are ever going to get on top of the pet over population crisis, we need a serious change in attitude. We need to teach our children that acquiring and agreeing to care for an animal is a life long responsibility, and in breeding animals, the current population of the animals and what you are going to do with the offspring if you cannot find suitable homes for them.
The last sentance in this area needs to be altered, the thought is incomplete, add needs to be considered right after cannot find suitable homes for them, giving

what you are going to do with the offspring if you cannot find suitable homes for them needs to be considered.

 

DaCourt

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Posts
825
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
825
Cavies-and-Kids said:
Approximately 70 days later, the experiment came to an end with 2 dead babies (possibly because of the parents genetics) and 3 surviving babies.

FIrst of all....Very well written. However, Even thought this sentence is a very sad one, it did give me a chuckle. WHY??? Because the first thing that cmae t mind when I read this was that you were talking about the genetics of the parents...the PARENTS of the CHILD! Which in a way, is probably not too far off base. It is something in their genetics that let the child participate in this experiment in the first place, so yeah...it good be their genetics that lead to the death...indirectly.
 

C&K

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Posts
2,422
Joined
Sep 26, 2005
Messages
2,422
FIrst of all....Very well written. However, Even thought this sentence is a very sad one, it did give me a chuckle. WHY??? Because the first thing that cmae t mind when I read this was that you were talking about the genetics of the parents...the PARENTS of the CHILD! Which in a way, is probably not too far off base. It is something in their genetics that let the child participate in this experiment in the first place, so yeah...it good be their genetics that lead to the death...indirectly.

LoL!

I can see how you read that, perhaps some further clarification is needed!

I just can't get over the parent that agreed to this. I remember years ago my older sister using rats in an experiment, it was a maze and she tried to "teach" them how to get through it with food rewards. The thing is, the rats where our pets already, and at the end of the experiment, we kept them!
 

Slap Maxwell

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Posts
4,880
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
4,880
Her name would be Blanco, then.
 

DaCourt

Well-known Member
Cavy Slave
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Posts
825
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
825
I have to share a story from this weekend. Courtney, my daughter danced this weekend at or local Youth Expo. The Expo is all about kids, dancing, YMCA, girl/boy scouts, etc...Well, of course, they also have the 4-H groups.

While we were waiting for my daughter's competition to start, we walked around. First we stopped and talked to a 4-H group that we just loved. Their entire group was based around assistance dogs. They didn't breed them either. They found them in shelters, and trained them. They actually take them in as puppies and teach them all the basic commands. They they are evaluated and put through assistance training. Supper group.

Then we found the breeders. Courtney just can't help herself. So, here she is, all dressed up ready to dance, talking to these kids, pretending to know NOTHING. So, she asked them where they got their pigs from. They told her that they breed them. She was like, oh really. So she asked, can't you get them at a store or shelter. They tell her they sell to the stores. She asked again about the shleters. They told her, oh, no. You'll never find guinea pigs in a shelter. WELLLLL....she let them have it.

She said, "You are wrong. You will fing guinea pigs in shelters. How do I know? Because one of my pigs came from a pig who's mom was sitting in a shelter pregnant. Also, did you know that right now there are 80 guinea pigs sitting in a local shelter who are going to die if they are not adopted by Sunday. Yes DIE. That's 80 pigs. Where did they come from...a breeder."

The kids tried to respond but didn't know what to say. They were like..."I...uh...but..." So before she leaves, she tell them, "So the next time you decide you want to breed, remember that....80 dead guinea pigs because someone wanted to breed. Also, you could be putting your pig in danger every time she gets pregnant.

One of the moms came up to me and yelled at my for my daughter upsetting their kids. I told her, if they can't handle the truth, that is her fault. Maybe if her kids knew the truth before hand, they wouldn't be responsible doing what they are doing.

I love Courtney for so many reasons. One of those reasons is ability to speak up for what she believe in.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.

Similar threads

GuineaPigQueen1
Replies
4
Views
3K
GuineaPigQueen1
GuineaPigQueen1
4boipigs
Replies
2
Views
1K
CavySpirit
CavySpirit
terpfan99
Replies
0
Views
52K
terpfan99
terpfan99
Lychee
Replies
0
Views
5K
Lychee
Lychee
Top