Breeding Anti breeding?

[seveneves]

My husband's family has many special needs children. I love them and they love me. My youngest son, who is not biologically mine, but whom I have raised for 13 out of his 15 years, is learning disabled. I dont think anyone should be sterilized unless that is their choice. When I was spayed (that's a funny for all those of you with no humor) I was totally thrilled that I could not have any more kids! (and I'm sure y'all are thinking that my mother should have been 'spayed'.) What pissed me off was, at 21 years old and a mother of 3, a son and twin daughters, the doctor had to ask my children's father (we were NOT married) if I had his permission to have my tubes tied!

Anyway, I was not the one that brought up the human aspect of this conversation. I was making a point. If anyone was offended it's because they wanted something to be offended over. No one can MAKE you feel happy, sad, angry, etc. YOU ALLOW yourself to feel that way. I won't apologize.

I have cats because ppl like to drop them off on my doorstep. The plague of every farmer. I still have mice in my feed. They do not come when called. You can only pet them when they want to be petted. Cats are useless.

I have a reg'd Black&Tan coon hound because she was given to my husband for Christmas. She was promptly spayed as soon as she was old enough. I have a Great Pyrenees because I have fox worrying my dairy goats. He is not neutered, YET. I have a red bone/beagle cross that I got from the local ASPCA. I have a daschund that someone THREW OUT OF THEIR CAR as they were going by. Lots of vet money there. She is approx 4 years old and not spayed and we have no plans to spay her in the near future. The vet wants to make sure she will live thru it first. Before these I had a Dalmatian that was living in a small apt with 3 little kids that were allowed to use him for wrestling practice. He lived to 11. I had a Black Lab/Collie that i found in the middle of a road by a swamp where her litter mates had been drowned. She lived to 16. Both dogs were altered.

I was given an old lady goat to retire peacefully. She was never bred on my farm. This past winter she developed a severe lung infection. After many vet visits, i was told there was nothing more that could be done. She was too old and her body was not responding. Instead of doing the "norm" and putting a bullet in her head, the vet put her down.

Y'all can think of me what you will. I really dont care. I have my opinions, also. But y'all want to control who breeds what and y'all prolly belong to PETA and whatever that is pushing these bills. Just dont be surprised when our wonderful gov't does them same to the human poplace. So, if you want to breed and are doing it with some intellilgence, good for you! If you dont want to breed. DON'T! it's that simple! Just dont tell the world that your way and your reasons are the only ones and everyone else is wrong.

The reason i have some of the Pigs i have?... I KNOW that my 4H leader has every intention of breeding and that 2 of these girls were overbred before they came here. That's her choice and I'm not going to stop her but I kept the ones that needed to retire with love and peace. All 4 of my girls sit on their back legs every morning and wait for their breakfast. They are healthy and happy.

 

[Wildcavy]

Anyway, I was not the one that brought up the human aspect of this conversation. I was making a point. If anyone was offended it's because they wanted something to be offended over. No one can MAKE you feel happy, sad, angry, etc. YOU ALLOW yourself to feel that way. I won't apologize.

I was not asking for an apology. I was asking for a clarification.

And as to whether someone is offended and whether we "allow" ourselves to feel that way -- that is only true insofar as I will let ignorance interfere with my life. However, frequently people who use this phrase use it as a cop out. IE, using it as a way to be able to spew cruel speech. It's a favorite of bullies. And is often used by people who are themselves quick to take offense, and too angry with the world to discern it.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. We may differ in the gray zone between, which is why we have The Kitchen, but having a tantrum and telling people that they shouldn't take a position strikes me as rather immature. And boring.

 

[Dee_E]

I have cats because ppl like to drop them off on my doorstep. The plague of every farmer. I still have mice in my feed. They do not come when called. You can only pet them when they want to be petted. Cats are useless.

We all have differing opinions, that will never change. What I don't understand is the above statement. I interpret it this way; Barn Cats IE, cats in general are 'useless' because they do not perform a 'function. I grew up on a Horse/Cattle ranch, yep we had Barn Cats and still had mice and rats. Not all Mice and Rats can be eradicated by the resident cats.

So Cats are useless as they do not perform a 'function'. What 'function' does a GP perform?

 

[Carissa6729]

Anyway, I was not the one that brought up the human aspect of this conversation. I was making a point. If anyone was offended it's because they wanted something to be offended over. No one can MAKE you feel happy, sad, angry, etc. YOU ALLOW yourself to feel that way. I won't apologize.

I was not asking for an apology. I was asking for a clarification.

And as to whether someone is offended and whether we "allow" ourselves to feel that way -- that is only true insofar as I will let ignorance interfere with my life. However, frequently people who use this phrase use it as a cop out. IE, using it as a way to be able to spew cruel speech. It's a favorite of bullies. And is often used by people who are themselves quick to take offense, and too angry with the world to discern it.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. We may differ in the gray zone between, which is why we have The Kitchen, but having a tantrum and telling people that they shouldn't take a position strikes me as rather immature. And boring.

As well, I was not looking for an apology as each has their own opinions and I wanted clarification where as you stood on the subject. Many people don't realize what struggles parents and families go through on a daily, hell hourly, basis and I wanted to make it clear that people do share that opinion about the disabled and it is a common belief. Heck, it wasn't that long ago when the disabled were institutionalized and forgotten about. Before my lifetime, but not much earlier and I believe some places were shut down after I was born (1981).

I usually will let most things roll off as I don't have the energy or time to fight every argument but if and when that argument is brought in front of me on a forum that I actively participate in, then I will join in. That point of view I see as a direct attack against my child, whether it was stated in their presence or not, and being a mother I will defend my child tooth and nail to the end of time. Do I choose to let it get to me? I guess you could say yes, but the way I see it, it's my ingrained human nature as a mother to always protect my child from harm, whether it be from physical, mental, emotional and through whatever media it comes through to get to my kids.

I get that it wasn't meant that way, so I will drop the subject after this but I just wanted to make it clear that I don't expect apologies from anybody for having an opinion. That is your right.

But any ignorant attitudes that condemn my child for doing nothing wrong in this world but being born into it, I will never tolerate; as tolerating something is saying it's "okay" to allow it to happen.

 

[CanadianComforts]

I have cats because ppl like to drop them off on my doorstep. The plague of every farmer. I still have mice in my feed. They do not come when called. You can only pet them when they want to be petted. Cats are useless.

So you have cats, who I am guessing are not allowed inside. You have a mouse problem, but because they don't come when called and still have mice they are useless? Sounds to me like you have no connection with them and have not bothered to make a connect, nor have you tried to train them. I know people may laugh at that but cats are trainable. Spook is one of them. He comes when called (I can even whistle to get him to come). He knows several commands such as sit, stay, come (or as we call it come a come), off, up, and touch (which is him standing on his hind legs reaching up and touching). (for those interested in cat training a friend of mine who has helped me has some tips on her blog: (broken link removed))

I can think of many things that are a "plague" to farmers and cats aren't one of them. Many farmers seek out cats.

Y'all can think of me what you will. I really dont care. I have my opinions, also. But y'all want to control who breeds what and y'all prolly belong to PETA[...]

Umm no, I in fact have low opinions of that group, but that's my opinion and choice, stop assuming that because most of us are against breeding that we are PETA followers. I'm sure there are a few here but not all of us are.

 

[Carissa6729]

Umm no, I in fact have low opinions of that group, but that's my opinion and choice, stop assuming that because most of us are against breeding that we are PETA followers. I'm sure there are a few here but not all of us are.

I actually find little snippets of others who have a relatively low opinion of PETA but it's not widely discussed here. I found that interesting because, I too, am in the same boat and have my own opinions about them as well. Just found it interesting that it's never really mentioned around these forums.

 

[CanadianComforts]

I actually find little snippets of others who have a relatively low opinion of PETA but it's not widely discussed here. I found that interesting because, I too, am in the same boat and have my own opinions about them as well. Just found it interesting that it's never really mentioned around these forums.

I think thats because of this: https://www.guineapigcages.com/threads/41656/

 

[Carissa6729]

I think thats because of this: https://www.guineapigcages.com/threads/41656/

Ha, teach me to stay on the new topics instead of actually looking in the forums. Thanks for pointing that out lol!

 

[asnnbrg]

1. I actually have a great sense of humor. Just not when it comes to people insinuating that I shouldn’t have been born because my mother had a severe mental illness or that my child who has Asperger’s (and is really incredibly intelligent) has no right to a fulfilling life with children if he chooses because he’s considered “deficient.” Yeah, not a lot of humor about either of those issues. I don’t apologize for that.
2. Yes, I do choose to be offended just like you chose to be offensive. It goes both ways. You knew what you said was grossly inappropriate. You’re not 14. You’re an adult.
3. Your cats are “useless,” as you call them because you choose not to make pets of them. It’s no different than people who put their guinea pigs in tiny pet store cages and lock them away in a separate part of the house and then whine about how boring they are. My cats are very loving and affectionate. They come when they are called and enjoy being pet whenever we want to pet them. Every cat we’ve owned has been like this, so I don’t think they’re unusual in any way. Don’t make a farm tool out of an animal and then complain that it’s not a pet. It’s not fair to the animal.
4. I don’t belong to PETA. Don’t even like PETA, but that’s neither here nor there, and many people here ARE fans of PETA, and I generally keep my opinions to myself in order to maintain peace.
5. I don’t have a desire to control anyone’s actions one way or another just like I don’t want you controlling mine. Or my reproductive system. OR MY CHILD’S.

 

[asnnbrg]

Oh, never mind.

 

[RodentCuddles]

3. Your cats are “useless,” as you call them because you choose not to make pets of them. It’s no different than people who put their guinea pigs in tiny pet store cages and lock them away in a separate part of the house and then whine about how boring they are. My cats are very loving and affectionate. They come when they are called and enjoy being pet whenever we want to pet them. Every cat we’ve owned has been like this, so I don’t think they’re unusual in any way. Don’t make a farm tool out of an animal and then complain that it’s not a pet. It’s not fair to the animal.

I agree with this 110%.

We had two cats this time last year. There were two small kittens running around our street who then choose to stay at our house. We got them de-sexed (Both males like our 13 year old boys), it did take 9 months as they were born feral, wild and as strays. But now, with love and patience they are just as amazing, cuddly and talkative as our big boys. This year we have also taken in, de-sexed the same female cats two kittens (a male and a female) as the SPCA is full and said if we don't take them back they'd be put down. (We are still trying to catch the mother to de-sex her) The male kitten let me pat him today. The girl is still very shy (Living with 5 boys..Don't blame her..they're outside/inside cat, please we're in NZ it's different and safer..please don't bother starting something about how we keep our cats).

But our two big boys, the two cats who were feral and wild kittens just this time last year and even the 5 month old boy all know their individual names and all of them apart from the 5 month old (as hes still scared, but it took 9 months for the other two and we didn't move here till this time when they were already 5 months ) boy come when called, go where you point and tell them to go, and hop up on your lap.

I would never see any cat as useless.

 

[Dee_E]

No animal is 'useless'.

 

[asnnbrg]

I agree with this 110%.

We had two cats this time last year. There were two small kittens running around our street who then choose to stay at our house. We got them de-sexed (Both males like our 13 year old boys), it did take 9 months as they were born feral, wild and as strays. But now, with love and patience they are just as amazing, cuddly and talkative as our big boys. This year we have also taken in, de-sexed the same female cats two kittens (a male and a female) as the SPCA is full and said if we don't take them back they'd be put down. (We are still trying to catch the mother to de-sex her) The male kitten let me pat him today. The girl is still very shy (Living with 5 boys..Don't blame her..they're outside/inside cat, please we're in NZ it's different and safer..please don't bother starting something about how we keep our cats).

But our two big boys, the two cats who were feral and wild kittens just this time last year and even the 5 month old boy all know their individual names and all of them apart from the 5 month old (as hes still scared, but it took 9 months for the other two and we didn't move here till this time when they were already 5 months ) boy come when called, go where you point and tell them to go, and hop up on your lap.

I would never see any cat as useless.

Oh, my gosh, you sound like my uncle. He and my aunt are quickly becoming the "crazy cat people" of their neighborhood. They took in a stray cat (who is ridiculously gorgeous). Then they started noticing all these feral cats lurking around. So they'd feed them. Well, one of them had kittens, so they caught the kittens and had them all spayed and neutered. As they earned the trust of the adults, they started catching them and having them spayed and neutered. These are all feral cats, not pets, mind you. My uncle is on a one-man mission to protect and feed the feral cat population in his corner of rural Illinois, lol. But it's sweet. He recently brought one little female in because she's a runt and all the others were picking on her. So now he's got two pet cats -- one a feral. Heh.

 

[madelineelaine]

@Carissa6729 I have to agree with you 100%, reading that I couldn't believe it.

My younger brother has struggled so much, and the things I hear/read upset me SO MUCH it's insane. I get that completely. It's frustrating to the high heavens.

 

[MochaAndMoo]

In my entire life, I have never met an animal that was useless.
The way their owners let them live makes them seem useless.

 

[oldnewie]

Whew! There are 2 particular types if breeders who should be STOPPED. Those who breed willy-nilly, only out for money & profit & don't give a ***** about the animals. They are kept in horrible conditons, most forced to mate, the more litters the better, regardless. Like the saying 'where there's demand'... Just one example is a case some years ago, when the Australian SPCA finally got a large 'puppy mill' closed down after years of legal battling. Puppies were sold online & buyers never knew or saw where the puppies came from. The place where the digs were kept was horrific. The animals shown on TV were ill, injured, starving & absolutely terrified. One small girl was blind yet was still being bred; another was an old girl who had been bred over&over again & was again (heavily) pregnant. She could hardly walk. This no doubt happens to other animals too, like guinea pigs & rabbits. These 'breeders' bring disrepute to the few who breed carefully & genuinely care. The other type are those who won't de-sex their pets, allowing more&more litters = more&more unwanted & dumped animals. SHAME!! Can I add that no animal is useless, all life is to be respected, & we are the most dangerous & predatory of all.

 

[Agrimony]

I originally posted this thread because I was unsure my opinion about breeding. I'm taking all posts into consideration though I'm still not sure where I stand- I see both sides of the issue and I appreciate all the contribution.

I do wish to make one thing clear though. When I mentioned "human breeding" I did not mean eugenics, I meant acknowledging the overpopulation issue and choosing to have a child rather than taking in an unwanted or orphaned one. In the same way that one could argue to not breed their pets on the basis that there are so many unwanted ones. That's a much different issue. I see where you were coming from bringing up eugenics, but I didn't originally think that would come up.

 

[seveneves]

We all have differing opinions, that will never change. What I don't understand is the above statement. I interpret it this way; Barn Cats IE, cats in general are 'useless' because they do not perform a 'function. I grew up on a Horse/Cattle ranch, yep we had Barn Cats and still had mice and rats. Not all Mice and Rats can be eradicated by the resident cats.

So Cats are useless as they do not perform a 'function'. What 'function' does a GP perform?

Within 3 days of bring Brewster home he killed 2 fox that tried to come after my youngest goats. That is the function of a Great Pyr.

 

[Wildcavy]

Within 3 days of bring Brewster home he killed 2 fox that tried to come after my youngest goats. That is the function of a Great Pyr.

GP = guinea pig. Not Great Pyr.

She is asking you to explain what function guinea pigs serve.

 

[seveneves]

I was not asking for an apology. I was asking for a clarification.

And as to whether someone is offended and whether we "allow" ourselves to feel that way -- that is only true insofar as I will let ignorance interfere with my life. However, frequently people who use this phrase use it as a cop out. IE, using it as a way to be able to spew cruel speech. It's a favorite of bullies. And is often used by people who are themselves quick to take offense, and too angry with the world to discern it.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. We may differ in the gray zone between, which is why we have The Kitchen, but having a tantrum and telling people that they shouldn't take a position strikes me as rather immature. And boring.

the whole idea of controlling what animals gets bred by what ppl is immature and boring. i'm far from a bully. i've actually been the victim most my life. but ya know what? i'm an adult now. I take responsibility for my actions and REactions.

ppl were putting in their 2 cents and so was i. i'm not offended or upset in the least. actually, i come to this particular thread for a good giggle. and after the night i had, i need a good giggle

(ps) we had triplets last night - 2 bucks and 1 doe - the doe and one buck were breech - we lost the breech doe and i now bottle feed, every 2 hours, the remaining buck and doe - but ya know what? as horrible as that was, having to go in and pull babies and one being still born?... i look forward to march every year. God's gift of birth. Hope springs eternal!

(pss) my brother died at age 29 from Cystic Fibrosis. my grandson is now troubled by the same disease. for 30 min 3 times a day i have to 'beat' on him - 3 min per spot 10 spots on his chest, back and ribs - its his physical therapy to help keep his lungs clear - sarchasm ppl - figure it out