Animal Welfare Adopt a pet and don't have funds for vet!

[SheWolfSilver]

@Mowgs - Thank you! Rudy is doing much better. Poor guy has been through the ringer recently. All of this started 6 months ago with a strange tumor growing from his gums. We took him to the vet and she wanted to remove it that day and send it off for testing. The mass came back as acanthomatous epulis. The vet recommended a lower mandibulectomy. In between the first and second surgery Rudy started to act odd, (coughing, peeing in the house and being lethargic) and our vet was concerned the cancer had spread to his heart. After x-rays and blood tests he was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. The best out of all the possible diagnosis we were given. He also had a pancreatic flare up shortly after the hypothyroid diagnosis. Once he was over those humps he finally went in for his mandibulectomy a few weeks ago. He came through like a champ and is doing so much better.

That is so good to hear! Congratulations!

 

[couchon]

I would love to be a vet, actually, but it wouldn't work in the "real world" the for me. As I mentioned, I would never be able to euthanize an animal, even for the right reasons - I couldn't do it. Plus, I couldn't deal with people who were unwilling to get what their animal needed. And in vet school, I know at least in some, they still do surgery/procedures and euthanize the animal afterwards.

And P. S., not really trying to convince anyone - just responding to the counter points to my argument, since I seem to be the only one holding this position.

 

[couchon]

Inle-rabbit, congratulations

 

[Mowgs]

@couchon , I understand what you're saying, and I hope you don't take any offense to this, but most of those suggestions are unrealistic. Majority of vets aren't going to do work pro bono, especially any type of major procedure. We have so much debt that we can't afford to. I'm personally looking at $300k of debt from vet school alone. We start out making maybe $60k. We can't afford to do anything for free. Also, if you're not the owner of the practice, it's not your call. There are some programs/organizations that have money to give away to people in need, but you have to prove you have an income below a certain amount and you usually don't get enough to cover the full cost of a major procedure, so sources like that can't be counted on. And they're struggling just as much with how the economy has been.

Selling belongings will help, but depending on the surgery, might not be enough. As for getting a job in a clinic to get discounts, it's hard enough to get a job in a clinic as a pre-vet/vet student. Most of the time, you pretty much just have to be in the right place at the right time or know someone. Also, chances are that if it's a complex procedure you're going to need a board certified surgeon or someone boarded in that particular area and they're not at your GP clinics.

And like I mentioned earlier, I'm not disagreeing that owners don't have a responsibility, just pointing out that whether certain people should have pets or not is not black and white in my eyes.


ETA: Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone either. Just discussing.

 

[SheWolfSilver]

@couchon , I understand what you're saying, and I hope you don't take any offense to this, but most of those suggestions are unrealistic. Majority of vets aren't going to do work pro bono, especially any type of major procedure. We have so much debt that we can't afford to. I'm personally looking at $300k of debt from vet school alone. We start out making maybe $60k. We can't afford to do anything for free. Also, if you're not the owner of the practice, it's not your call. There are some programs/organizations that have money to give away to people in need, but you have to prove you have an income below a certain amount and you usually don't get enough to cover the full cost of a major procedure, so sources like that can't be counted on. And they're struggling just as much with how the economy has been.

Selling belongings will help, but depending on the surgery, might not be enough. As for getting a job in a clinic to get discounts, it's hard enough to get a job in a clinic as a pre-vet/vet student. Most of the time, you pretty much just have to be in the right place at the right time or know someone. Also, chances are that if it's a complex procedure you're going to need a board certified surgeon or someone boarded in that particular area and they're not at your GP clinics.

And like I mentioned earlier, I'm not disagreeing that owners don't have a responsibility, just pointing out that whether certain people should have pets or not is not black and white in my eyes.


ETA: Also, I'm not trying to convince anyone either. Just discussing.

You know I can understand this! My husband is a self employed carpenter and if people don't pay up front we don't eat or pay our bills! So I can understand the vets point of view. The payment plan has been ruined by people who took advantage of this.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I think the obligation is to find the money in that situation or if it's completely impossible try to find someone who will spend the money. But again, I don't think it's right to euthanize for any problem that can be solved with money. And if you get an animalyou should think ahead of time if you can afford to spend thousand of dollars - that's what it comes back to.

In 2001 my 23YO Arabian gelding colicked. We had my vet out immediately. She runs out of her truck and has no clinic. She suspected a blockage in his intestines. There was nothing she could do on the farm. The only thing we could have done was run him to Ohio State to the vet hospital there. It was $3000 to just walk IN THE DOOR. It was also a 3 1/2 hour trip, and my horse did not trailer well, even when he was not in agony. I had to make a decison NOW. He pressed his head against my chest, and I "heard" him asking to be released.

I let him go. He went peacefully and quickly and it was the hardest decision I had ever made.


Could he have been saved? Possibly. Did I have the money? No way. It would have run into the TEN of thousands of dollars. I loved him dearly, he was my best friend, my first horse and I'd had him 21 years. But common sense dictated that I just could not do it. I thought with my head, not my heart.

 

[couchon]

First of all, I am very sorry for your loss.

Since your response was to me, I just wanted to respond. That is is simply not my belief. I understand you disagree. My belief for my animals is money should not be a part of a medical decision, and I hope I will stand by that as it gets tested.

 

[SkippyQ]

For the people who think you should have a credit card or a couple thousand in savings before adopting a pet or even having children,what if that isn't realistic? Not everyone I that lucky. Personally my family lives comfortably but also pay check to pay check. We would never qualify for a credit card or be able to put back $5,000 for our animals.
Does this mean I shouldn't be able to have children or pets?
I think that's a ridiculous statement,it's wonderful if you can afford to put yourself in debt in order to save your pets but my child comes first. I could never take food out of his mouth or potentially take his home away to pay for vet bills.
dont get me wrong i do love all my animals but its not something I would do. As a last resort I would surrender said animal.
alot of people simply can't afford thousands of dollars in vet bills and I don't think this means they shouldn't have animals

 

[lunarminx]

Could he have been saved? Possibly. Did I have the money? No way. It would have run into the TEN of thousands of dollars. I loved him dearly, he was my best friend, my first horse and I'd had him 21 years. But common sense dictated that I just could not do it. I thought with my head, not my heart.

I can understand this, completely. I think you have much to look at when deciding what to do for a pet. One of our patients two years ago spent 50K for her older dog that had cancer. The dog died anyway. My dog is my baby, he even goes to work with me, he's 10 1/2 years old and there is no way I would spend that on him at his age, making him sick until he died. I would keep him until his quality of life was bad and then have him put down and be proud of the great happy life I gave him for his time here. I guess as much as he is my baby I am still pretty old school. I hear of so many dogs getting their acl worked for 2-5k, you never heard of that many years ago, you restricted the dog and it healed, maybe with a slight limp. Basic vet care should be expected to be done, having enough saved for a major surgery is not realistic for most people but that does not mean they loved their pet less then the person who spent 50k trying to beat cancer in their old dog.

 

[clb89]

For the people who think you should have a credit card or a couple thousand in savings before adopting a pet or even having children,what if that isn't realistic? Not everyone I that lucky. Personally my family lives comfortably but also pay check to pay check. We would never qualify for a credit card or be able to put back $5,000 for our animals.
Does this mean I shouldn't be able to have children or pets?
I think that's a ridiculous statement,it's wonderful if you can afford to put yourself in debt in order to save your pets but my child comes first. I could never take food out of his mouth or potentially take his home away to pay for vet bills.
dont get me wrong i do love all my animals but its not something I would do. As a last resort I would surrender said animal.
alot of people simply can't afford thousands of dollars in vet bills and I don't think this means they shouldn't have animals

I want to touch base with your first paragraph. I don't believe one has to be rich in order to save money before you get a pet or kids. It just means having patience. I also think saving up for kids are a little different then saving up for guinea pigs. With our kids we have insurance for a lot of things from dental to vision, even special college saving programs. Pets don't usually get that extensive amount of programs.

Now as to saving up for guinea pigs before you get them very possible, even for the not rich to do. Just takes longer to get them. Personally I am far from rich, and I am saving at the most $20.00 per paycheck for guinea pig vet fund. I've been saving up for a few months now, it'll probably take another two to three months. Yes this is taking a while, but when we do get guinea pigs we will have a solid fund just for them.

 

[couchon]

Skippy, yes I don't think it's responsible to have pets unless you have at least x$1,000 in savings to spend on them. I think it's not responsible to get a pet and not even be able to afford something as simple and common as a stone surgery.

 

[couchon]

Thank you, clb - that's the responsible thing to do.

 

[couchon]

Lunarminx, don't confuse two issues. Either you would put the pet down because of quality of life or money. A better question is, assuming your pet's quality of life would be good, would you spend the money? If you would rather euthanize than spend the money, I would disagree that the dog whose owner is willing to make such a huge sacrifice is not more loved.

 

[Mowgs]

[MENTION=12371]couchon[/MENTION], Again, I think that is too general of a comment to make. It's entirely dependent on how many additional good years you're talking about, at least to me. $50k for a 10 1/2 year dog that might get one good year out if it, is not worth it to me. Please DO NOT sit there and say I don't love my dog; I'm making the decision BECAUSE I love my dog. It's not fair to the dog to put it through grueling procedures if it's only going to be beneficial for a short period of time. If the dog was much younger, then sure, I'd consider it (although $50K is still a crap ton of money). Also, the older it gets, prolonged anesthesia gets riskier (which is often included in these types of procedures we're looking at. You really also have to take into consideration how the dog is doing in the bigger picture. Maybe there are other health problems the dog has in addition to what the expensive surgery would fix, such as arthritis or kidney disease. Those both decrease quality of life as the progress and need to be taken into consideration as well.

 

[Mowgs]

Meant to add this to my other post:

It's okay that you disagree with me, but it is extremely unfair to say my decision to euthanize my pet because the medical expenses are too great and might not add that many years to an already elderly animal means I don't care about it. Again, that is one of the things I like about euthanasia. It is not an easy decision to make, and personally, I think making that decision to let your animal pass peacefully before is one of the greatest ways to show you love your fur kid.

 

[Aleks]

I haven't read this entire thread, but has anyone mentioned Care Credit?
It is like a credit card, so you do have to pay it back, but it seems like a pretty good option for people who don't have a whole lot of money in savings.
Pet Credit Card - Veterinary Payment Options | CareCredit™

 

[Mowgs]

[MENTION=25470]Aleks[/MENTION], I didn't bring it up since it works like a credit card and you need to get approval, but I really probably should have mentioned it somewhere. We have had people call in the clinic lobby I work at when emergency situations occur, and many do get it and are able to use it right away.

 

[couchon]

Mowgs, your statements just contradict themselves in my view. You talk about doing what's best for the dog, but you also talk about what's worth it to you, and those two things are easily mutually exclusive.

And you are twisting my words. Nowhere did I say you don't love your dog or don't care about him. I do, however, think it's unfair of YOU to say the person who you talked about who spent the $50,000 may not be more dedicated to her dog. I think it very much diminishes their sacrifice and the difficulty of putting herself and her welfarebehind her dog. And a year for a dog is like SEVEN years for a human. It's like 10 percent of his life. It's huge.

 

[LovesGuineas4]

I just had to take two of my babies in today because of uri. When i got home after making the appointment i went to check on all of them and it turned out i had to take my adult guinea in also this afternoon...while i was gone this morning apparently he somehow scratched his cornea...i dont really have the extra money but they were sick and hurt so i used what i had to get them checked and get them medecine whereas my boyfriend wouldnt of. I take care of my own and those guineas are as close to me as my kids! Yeah if you dont have or know you wint have the money for vets then dont get any animals, guineas are just like dogs and all...just because their considered a "rodent" doesnt mean theyll be cheap or throwaway.

 

[Mowgs]

Mowgs, your statements just contradict themselves in my view. You talk about doing what's best for the dog, but you also talk about what's worth it to you, and those two things are easily mutually exclusive.

And you are twisting my words. Nowhere did I say you don't love your dog or don't care about him. I do, however, think it's unfair of YOU to say the person who you talked about who spent the $50,000 may not be more dedicated to her dog. I think it very much diminishes their sacrifice and the difficulty of putting herself and her welfarebehind her dog. And a year for a dog is like SEVEN years for a human. It's like 10 percent of his life. It's huge.

I'm not diminishing her sacrifice and I did not say that she wasn't dedicated. I actually never really talked about her situation except saying that I wouldn't have done it if I had known the prognosis wasn't great even with treatment. I think when it comes to cancer, it's not worth putting the dog through chemo, and multiple surgeries - especially if it's an elderly dog and likely doesn't have a good outcome. Surgeries have a long recovery time and elderly patients have a higher risk for post-op complications. Chemo is extremely caustic and if it gets outside of the vein can burn/kill other cells in the body.

You actually did say that someone who doesn't spend that much money on their pet, doesn't love them as much and that's what I'm offended by. Our difference is due to where we stand on euthanasia - and that makes a HUGE difference. And I have seen sooo many people who come into my clinic and want to do treatments but can't afford the care for a number of reasons. Their inability to pay for those treatments that are expensive/not basic care does not mean they don't love their pet any more than the person who had the means to spend $50k on their pet.

And while that is my opinion, I am putting myself in the situation to make a point. You're doing the same by saying what you would do. I dont' see anything wrong with that.