A thought against animal welfare

[Maisiepaisie]

Hopefully the majority of those left will be vegan/vegetarian because only when we outnumber the omnivores will we be able to put things right

Well, I hope it doesn't work out that way. Imposing one's beliefs on a minority group-no matter how honorable or righteous they might be-has never turned out too well, historically. Personally, I wouldn't want to bow down to another's beliefs just because they had the numbers on me.

Isn't that what the law's about now? We're not allowed to do certain things because someone decided they were wrong. I imagine that if the majority of meateaters were wiped out by disease it would include most, if not all those directly involved in the meat industry so there'd be no meat anyway except for those prepared to go and kill their own. When I've asked it seems most meateaters are not prepared to do this. They much prefer to pay for someone else to do the job so they can buy their flesh nicely packaged in plastic and not have to think about where it came from.

 

[thalestral]

Thanks very much guys for the links and the book recommendations, it's a little hard to know where to start sometimes but I've got a good base to work from now

 

[Susan9608]

I just realized that in a strange way, Susan has taken Thoreau's position, and I've taken Emerson's. How's that for irony

 

[Calliso]

Thanks for the links I have more reading to do. Anyway guess I was wrong about my assumption about what you meant by personhood and rights sorry.


Anyway interesting read, though so far I have seen a lack of suggestions of how to make it actually HAPPEN. So far what I have read is mostly we must do this or that now no steps inbetween must have now! Or stuff like vegetarians aren;t doing enough and so on. HOWEVER that being said I am still reading haha, perhaps I have just missed the suggestions. Who knows. But imo those steps inbetween such as banning battery cages are important. Things aren;t going to happen suddenly. I mean women didn;t one day suddenly out of the blue get the right to vote and other such rights. It took years HUNDREDS of years perhaps thousands of years when you think about it. Now not trying to say better treatment of animals should take that long of course not! But there still needs to be logical steps. So while going vegetarian and pushing for legislation for better conditions for animals on farms might not seem like "enough" it is in my opinion still an important step in changing minds and making progress. And in my opinion even the little steps of progress are important.

 

[HowietheGreat]

CF#5, that was one of the better posts I have read in a long time. I would relate to Thoreau myself, choosing to bare the weight of the burden that is endured when educating others, then to simply turn my back on them. I do understand the frustration and the choice to embrace aloofness towards individuals that will not educate themselves, but in the end I could not look at myself in the mirror knowing I could have done more.

 

[John4216]

Since you seem to enjoy philosophy so much CF, I would suggest trying to read Kant and his work, especially where he talks about determining if something is moral or not.

And try to remember that in theory theory works all the time. I reality theory often falls flat. Philosophy is the same way and often is based more on the personality of the person who developed it.

 

[John4216]

Nietzsche hated Kant. No thanks. Next you'll be telling me to read Descartes... "I vivisect, therefore I am." Like I said, I don't like reading too much, because I don't want to contaminate my own thoughts.

 

[John4216]

Nietzsche hated Kant. No thanks. Next you'll be telling me to read Descartes... "I vivisect, therefore I am." Like I said, I don't like reading too much, because I don't want to contaminate my own thoughts. I'd rather think than read. But unlike Descartes, I don't have any illusions of grandeur about my thoughts. In the big scheme of things, I am nothing - not even a speck of dust.

Kant and Descartes both explicitly view animals as objects. On that basis alone, I don't give either of them the time of day. I hope they're both rotting in hell. There's a ton of better stuff to read.

So because you disagree with part of someones thoughts than everything they have to say is discounted not to mention the venom and anger you display. Does not help to lend much to your credibility, actually with everything you have said in various threads it paints you in a much more unflattering light. FAR right on the spectrum.

 

[salana]

Nietzsche hated Kant. No thanks. Next you'll be telling me to read Descartes... "I vivisect, therefore I am." Like I said, I don't like reading too much, because I don't want to contaminate my own thoughts. I'd rather think than read. But unlike Descartes, I don't have any illusions of grandeur about my thoughts. In the big scheme of things, I am nothing - not even a speck of dust.

Kant and Descartes both explicitly view animals as objects. On that basis alone, I don't give either of them the time of day. I hope they're both rotting in hell. There's a ton of better stuff to read.

Oh CF#5, you and your wacky black-and-white thinking and refusal to learn more.

 

[John4216]

I'll just post this little quip that came from a presentation:

1) We should reduce the fear, hate, and thoughts of revenge generated by the torturing and killing of animals.

2) We should not be prey to negative emotions or violence. They compound the problem. Real solutions come from changing people's minds rather than from creating confrontation and friction.

3) We should not limit our compassion to the animals and to those of like mind, but extend it to all living beings, even if we feel that some are clearly in the wrong. Compassion should be the basis of all our interactions with others, regardless of their views and actions in the area of animal rights.

- Ronald Epstein

That pretty much sums it up for me and further discussion on this.

 

[salana]

I must admit, I skimmed over some of your navel-gazing.

Really, CF#5, try doing some research on something other than baseball. Please. Read the philosophers you take as authorities, and the ones you haven't read, but hate because your authorities didn't like them.