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Thread: The word "adopt"

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    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner Agrimony's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    To be honest when I got my guinea pigs I had no idea you could rescue them, and I was absolutely going to buy them at the pet store or from a breeder who used to work with my mom. On a whim I posted an ad on Craigslist seeing if anyone had a guinea pig they were looking to surrender but I did not really expect any results. I got so many emails from people looking to surrender their guinea pigs and had multiple people point me in the direction of two local guinea pig rescues, I was amazed! I would never have guessed there even was such a thing as a guinea pig rescue let alone two in the Syracuse area. Sometimes people just need to take that extra step of searching, or have someone tell them there are other options.

    So now I gave three unwanted guinea pigs a home and supported local rescues and their efforts instead of lining the pockets of abusive mills with my money. Actually two of my rescues came from mills- Sparky was breeding at a mill before being bounced around a classroom, then a family, then the rescue and Pickle's mother was back bred at a small time mill that got shut down and Pickle was born at the rescue. When they got her she was pregnant and so malnourished she had almost no fur.

  2. #22
    Cavy Slave lunamoonagirl's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    I looked at rainbow exotics and It made remember when ( before I knew about all this and before I got on the form!) I bought one of my pigs (dobby who is no longer here with us on earth) they brought her into the petstore in a Rubbermaid container with pine bedding and air holes with no access to food or water so I know what guinea pigs from mills deal with

  3. #23
    Administrator CavySpirit's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    As most of you know, I live in Central Connecticut and quite frankly, don't know many people who love--and have--cavies. The following experience happened to me not two hours ago. I went into a local Petco to buy litter because their Planet Petco brand is my hands-down favorite. I never made it to the litter section until just before leaving the store.

    I was barely in the front door until my peripheral vision saw a cavy cage on the far counter. I don't even remember walking over to the cage. There was Zips, a 1.5 year old all black male piggy who had been surrendered to the store because his owner could not longer care for him.

    I asked if I might take him out of the cage..........and fell in love. Sweet boy who chattered to me and loved chin skritches. I turned him over and noticed some shavings around his penis. I asked for a q-tip and cleaned that boy's penis and bum right there in the store!

    I have a weakness for all black cavies and had great difficulty not taking him home. (My husband has threatened that if another cavy comes in the door, I leave).

    Now, I know that Petco charges a fee for rehoming, but it goes to their shelter fund. Do you consider this adopting?
    I have to stick with my hard line on pet stores on this one. I've always said that I don't care if you get a pet for zero dollars or if they pay you, it's not about the amount of money that changes hands at the store any more than it's about 'mandatory paperwork' either. Petco is no way, no how a rescue center. They have NO BUSINESS taking in unwanted pets. NONE. They should have directed that person to their ASPCA or HS or city shelter. If you had intercepted that person in the parking lot, then adoption.

    The fact that you were in the store in the first place is the issue. Their whole "adoption first" mantra is just pure social marketing BS. An "adoption" involves some level of screening--even one-on-one rehomings.

    You (and by you, I mean the proverbial you) feel sorry for the pig. Oh, it's a "rescue" -- all the better. Now you feel GOOD about "getting" it. Guilt trip removed. No need to rationalize. You are in the store, Petco does "rescue" whoohoo. You still now need a cage (I know you don't, but the vast majority of people in this situation do), you need food, supplies, etc. OF COURSE, they'll take in free inventory, do their standard crap medical care if ANY, and try to get it out again. I don't care where the money for the little so-called adoption fee goes. It doesn't matter. It's peanuts to them. They got what they wanted out of you. Stay out of the damn stores! That's what you need to do. You feel good about getting the pig. You come back to buy more stuff.

    As long as they are selling guinea pigs in that store, it's a purchase. My view is going to come across as extreme, but in my opinion, the lazy rescues that do adoptions at Petco and Petsmart while the guinea pigs suffer are not "PET" lovers. They are CAT or DOG lovers. They are not committed to the truly big picture of pet overpopulation. They got theirs (no cats and dogs in the stores), to hell with the rest of the pets, we don't care. There are PLENTY of pet stores to do adoption days at that do NOT carry animals. Rescues should support THOSE stores with adoption events, NOT the stores that still screw animals. And the day that they stop selling guinea pigs at stores but still sell rats or any other living creatures is NOT the day you'll see me celebrating or supporting them.

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    Re: The word "adopt"

    My pigs are petstore pigs. Which is how Loopsie got pregnant. I found you guys and then I havent walked into a petstore since. Only one that has a few turtles NOT for sale and in good condition. I actually want to adopt some pigs, but I wont because 1- space 2- money and 3- parents

  5. #25
    Moderator CavyMama's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by pinky View Post
    The Petco near me rents out space to a local cat rescue that houses cats and adopts them out. The Petco staff doesn't care for them. Volunteers from the rescue do. I consider that adopting and don't consider the cats to be Petco cats. There was a delay in them opening the cat rescue there due to some local ordinances, even though the Petco sells small pets.
    @pinky, I volunteer with a local animal organization that rents space inside Petco. Many of the people who come in to look at the cats often assume we work for Petco but the only affiliation we have with them is that they provide the space. The people have to fill out an application and go through a screening by the adoption counselor and may or may not get approved to adopt The organization has a network of foster homes but we don't have a brick & morter building to house the animals so we rent the space from Petco. All the money from adoption fees goes back into the organization. Petco sees NONE of it.

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    Cavy Slave spy9doc's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    I did not post my story to incite anyone's wrath......I simply found it ironic that this whole experience happened to me today while this debate is raging here!

    My life does not have such hard lines. I don't think I would be a very compassionate and caring doctor if I forced patients to live by my rules. Perhaps when I get to be queen, then I can reorder the world.

    I have no need to justify my patronage of a pet store to buy supplies. If the product I need was available elsewhere, then I would go there. I don't routinely buy anything from a pet store that I can get elsewhere. I have no desire to support piggy mills, wouldn't buy from a pet store, and yet I have acquaintances who are top level breeders. They have taught me a great deal about cavies and I make no apologies for them.

    Teresa, I admire great passion in anyone! I am grateful to have this site to exchange ideas and I can only imagine how much work it must be to keep it going.

    I rarely pass up a "teachable moment". Part of my paying forward is to take the opportunity that I had today to educate, inform, and direct the sales people in the store to this site.

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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    I did not post my story to incite anyone's wrath......I simply found it ironic that this whole experience happened to me today while this debate is raging here! .
    I don't think a debate is raging here. If you want to see a raging debate.... I can get one of those started easily. :-)

    Mostly this isn't supposed to be a debate about what is and isn't adoption. It's more about the use of the word adoption for clear instances of purchasing. There are many undebatable instances of purchasing a guinea pig. If I walk into PetCo, go and look at their guinea pigs that are in their inventory, pick one out, go to the cashier, pay my money, and all that money goes into PetCo's books... there is no way to call that an adoption in my opinion. However, people do call it adoption and I think it's a complete bastardization of the term.

    Also, Spy9doc... I figured you were either a spy, or a doctor, or a spy doctor. So, now I know you're at least doctor, but perhaps also a spy. :-)

  9. #28
    Administrator CavySpirit's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    I did not post my story to incite anyone's wrath......I simply found it ironic that this whole experience happened to me today while this debate is raging here!

    My life does not have such hard lines. I don't think I would be a very compassionate and caring doctor if I forced patients to live by my rules. Perhaps when I get to be queen, then I can reorder the world.

    I have no need to justify my patronage of a pet store to buy supplies. If the product I need was available elsewhere, then I would go there. I don't routinely buy anything from a pet store that I can get elsewhere. I have no desire to support piggy mills, wouldn't buy from a pet store, and yet I have acquaintances who are top level breeders. They have taught me a great deal about cavies and I make no apologies for them.

    Teresa, I admire great passion in anyone! I am grateful to have this site to exchange ideas and I can only imagine how much work it must be to keep it going.

    I rarely pass up a "teachable moment". Part of my paying forward is to take the opportunity that I had today to educate, inform, and direct the sales people in the store to this site.
    I'm just grateful for the opportunity to have an intelligent debate/discussion about the issue. I'm just trying to make my points about it. I'm sure as heck not feeling wrathful in the slightest!

    When I reply to these posts, I'm trying to enlighten and educate anyone reading them much more so than directing personal comments back to the posters.

    I'm also happy to have my positions challenged. Makes me think more deeply about things. Hardly anyone draws the lines in the sand at the same place that I do.

    Every day we have new kids reading this site. It's really frustrating to try to explain business concepts to kids and some adults as well. So, with these kinds of discussions we can get people thinking about things that they may not have thought of before.

    I feel like I know you, Spy9doc, a bit more than I know a lot of posters here. I know your positions on things are a bit different than mine and based on experience and reason. That's of course, quite fine. But, I also appreciate that we can have a reasonable discussion without it degrading into ugliness or immaturity.

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    Administrator CavySpirit's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmyOddieIndy View Post
    Also, Spy9doc... I figured you were either a spy, or a doctor, or a spy doctor. So, now I know you're at least doctor, but perhaps also a spy. :-)
    Toooo funny!

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    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner Artista's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Honestly, before digging into this forum, adopting to me meant basically a transfer of 'title' from anyone or anywhere. Therefore when I bought my gp last Dec (before finding this forum) I did call Moosh an adopted gp because I took her from Petco, the original 'owner' to being mine. I'm sure it's hard for some to get the difference as it was for me. @bpatters made it clear for me that adopting means taking an unwanted animal vs buying an animal is a purchase for profit on other stuff, that the animal isn't in an 'unwanted' place (well, to the animal it is!). I love my Moosh to death but thank God I don't need to go in pet stores anymore. Majority shopping is online and sometimes I go into a Mickaboo approved pet supply store which has a dusky conure and violet capped amazon as mascots to which well known exotic vet Dr. Chris Sanders and his wife Dr. Diana Welsh take care of them and Mickaboo holds valuable bird care classes there. If you're in the Bay Area, For Other Living Things is a ma and pop owned pet supply store which has food/toys etc for birds, gp, rats, to cats and dogs. Very loving and friendly folks located on S. Mary Ave in Sunnyvale just off of Fremont Blvd.

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    Administrator CavySpirit's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by Artista View Post
    Honestly, before digging into this forum, adopting to me meant basically a transfer of 'title' from anyone or anywhere. Therefore when I bought my gp last Dec (before finding this forum) I did call Moosh an adopted gp because I took her from Petco, the original 'owner' to being mine. I'm sure it's hard for some to get the difference as it was for me. @bpatters made it clear for me that adopting means taking an unwanted animal vs buying an animal is a purchase for profit on other stuff, that the animal isn't in an 'unwanted' place (well, to the animal it is!). I love my Moosh to death but thank God I don't need to go in pet stores anymore. Majority shopping is online and sometimes I go into a Mickaboo approved pet supply store which has a dusky conure and violet capped amazon as mascots to which well known exotic vet Dr. Chris Sanders and his wife Dr. Diana Welsh take care of them and Mickaboo holds valuable bird care classes there. If you're in the Bay Area, For Other Living Things is a ma and pop owned pet supply store which has food/toys etc for birds, gp, rats, to cats and dogs. Very loving and friendly folks located on S. Mary Ave in Sunnyvale just off of Fremont Blvd.
    You named a lot of my favorite vets and places! Only have to add Dr. Nakamura at Adobe! Love Mickaboo, too!

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    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner Artista's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by CavySpirit View Post
    You named a lot of my favorite vets and places! Only have to add Dr. Nakamura at Adobe! Love Mickaboo, too!
    Thanks for the name drop at Adobe! Dr. Welsh referred me to Adobe for after hours emergency but couldn't remember the cavy savvy vet over there! Thankfully I never had an after hour emergency need for Moosh nor any birds I've had in the 25 years I've had them but you never know!

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    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner pinky's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by CavyMama View Post
    @pinky, I volunteer with a local animal organization that rents space inside Petco. Many of the people who come in to look at the cats often assume we work for Petco but the only affiliation we have with them is that they provide the space. The people have to fill out an application and go through a screening by the adoption counselor and may or may not get approved to adopt The organization has a network of foster homes but we don't have a brick & morter building to house the animals so we rent the space from Petco. All the money from adoption fees goes back into the organization. Petco sees NONE of it.
    I never said or suggested that Petco got any of the funds. Maybe my first sentence wasn't clear. I said that Petco rents to the rescue. The rescue adopts them out. I think that selling and running a rescue required a different type of zoning or license and that's why they delayed the opening.

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    Cavy Star mufasa's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    I believe that this is adoption because no money went to Petco. I got Quinn in the exact same way. She was dumped off by someone who didn't want her anymore, and the fee went directly to the Petco Foundation. No, it's not to a guinea pig rescue, but at least it's benefitting an animal charity. I never even knew that Petcos take in animals for adoption, but now I pop in there when I'm in that mall and often see piggies, hamsters, and the like. The clerks say that people just leave them outside the doors overnight, so goodness knows what would happen to them if the store weren't there. I wouldn't be surprised if the people would just turn them loose somewhere.

    I'm still not a pet store advocate by any means because they create the problem of unwanted pigs, so they don't get any kudos for cleaning up a tiny part of the massive mess they made. But I do consider it adoption under my definition because because the pig is unwanted and no money went to the pet store or a breeder.

    Quote Originally Posted by spy9doc View Post
    As most of you know, I live in Central Connecticut and quite frankly, don't know many people who love--and have--cavies. The following experience happened to me not two hours ago. I went into a local Petco to buy litter because their Planet Petco brand is my hands-down favorite. I never made it to the litter section until just before leaving the store.

    I was barely in the front door until my peripheral vision saw a cavy cage on the far counter. I don't even remember walking over to the cage. There was Zips, a 1.5 year old all black male piggy who had been surrendered to the store because his owner could not longer care for him.

    I asked if I might take him out of the cage..........and fell in love. Sweet boy who chattered to me and loved chin skritches. I turned him over and noticed some shavings around his penis. I asked for a q-tip and cleaned that boy's penis and bum right there in the store!

    I have a weakness for all black cavies and had great difficulty not taking him home. (My husband has threatened that if another cavy comes in the door, I leave).

    Now, I know that Petco charges a fee for rehoming, but it goes to their shelter fund. Do you consider this adopting?

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    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmyOddieIndy View Post
    I feel like the term adoption is a special term that should only be used when bringing an animal home from a shelter, rescue or in some instances CL (although, I'm still torn about whether or not someone who gets a rehomed animal on CL or Kijiji can call it adopted).
    I personally think you have to be careful before making judgments that are this specific. Animals that are rehomed on CL are often destined for shelters and rescues, taking them in keeps them out of the shelter and/or out of less favorable conditions in many cases. I found both my dogs on CL, both were free to the first person who picked up the phone and called. I really do cringe when I think what could have become of them if I hadn't been the one to make that call. No, I didn't pay an organization an adoption fee for either of them, but I certainly do think it's silly to imply that someone would look at either situation and say it was anything but an adoption.

    I'm also of the opinion that a life is a life and they all matter - so to get down to the nitty gritty and start making assessments on what people can and can't call adoption seems to me a moot point. Sure, buying an animal from a breeder or pet store is outright buying merchandise and can't be called anything else. Taking in a pig (or other pet) that a pet store has taken in as a surrender, I don't know - I can see both sides and I understand that point that if no money goes to the store, what else can you call it; I also see the point that the whole reason a store would take in "surrendered" animals is for them to serve as the loss leaders that their other live merchandise does. So I'd have to say it would come down to a case-by-case determination and I think that level of nit-picking is, at best, counterproductive.


    Over the years my "lines" have become less rigid too - I don't like the contempt intolerance seems to breed and while I'm always quick to distinguish between buying/rescuing/adopting/etc., it seems to me that there are always a certain group of folks in rescue communities that seem to want to appoint themselves the unofficial council and arbitrarily make judgments on what can be called "adoption" and what can't. This comment makes me think of that. It seems to me that if the bottom line is education and helping people to understand the true and distinct difference between buying an animal and acquiring it in a way that isn't buying (meaning the purchase doesn't benefit a breeder or large scale corporation in any way) and by educating helping to ensure that those who didn't bat an eye at buying won't do it again and will help to make sure others don't, either, then squabbling with folks over the conditions under which they obtained their pet from another home or person to determine whether or not it can adequately be deemed true adoption is an utterly pointless endeavor.


    I saw a comment some time back someone made to a poster about pigs they'd taken in from craigslist along the lines of, 'that would be considered an adoption because ...' It's obviously always going to be a subjective determination, but to me, and if a person is obtaining an animal from a source other than a pet store or breeder, whether you want to call it adoption or not, it's a vast improvement over truly buying and supporting a mill or a store or a corporation that genuinely only sees those sentient lives as profits or losses.

    To the OP, although I quoted you, I really didn't intend to address you specifically. Your comment about how you consider adoption to be something truly special, etc., just got me thinking and I do understand what you mean (I think). I work a job where words and how they're used are extremely important, so I understand more than I probably want to what you mean about how you, personally, feel about calling something adoption, but the comment in general is reminiscent of an attitude that I've seen taken to extremes from time to time and that's really what I meant to comment on, and I really didn't mean to direct anything I said at you specifically.

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    Cavy Slave mamattorney's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    This I know for sure. If you are handed a piece of paper with your new animal and it has a line item called "sales tax", your animal was not adopted.

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  19. #37
    Moderator CavyMama's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by pinky View Post
    I never said or suggested that Petco got any of the funds. Maybe my first sentence wasn't clear. I said that Petco rents to the rescue. The rescue adopts them out. I think that selling and running a rescue required a different type of zoning or license and that's why they delayed the opening.
    LOL I know! I'm agreeing with you. I was just letting you know that I can relate to your comment.

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    Re: The word "adopt"

    "Adopted" is a much softer and kinder term than "bought with money". I'm guessing that's why a lot of people use it in place of, "I exchanged money in return for the property rights of this animal."

    It's funny that even just the word is associated with nicer, more positive things.

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    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner pinky's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Words are funny things.... they can even lead to wars. I think the important thing is about respect for life and to respectfully disagree with others if your opinion is contrary.
    Last edited by pinky; 08-15-13 at 07:45 am.

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  23. #40
    Cavy Slave spy9doc's Avatar
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    Re: The word "adopt"

    Quote Originally Posted by CavySpirit View Post
    But, I also appreciate that we can have a reasonable discussion without it degrading into ugliness or immaturity.
    Me too!

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