Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Bladder stones issue

  1. #1
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Bladder stones issue

    Hi guys,

    Haven't actually posted in a while but really could use your advice.

    Per short: one of my piggies, male, 2 year 7 months old is sick again.

    He had a mammary cyst removed on July 31st 2012. Recovery was going well for a month, then stopped. Symptoms: drinking lots of water, squeaking when peeing, losing weight though eating well. Got him into our exotic pet vet and the Xray revealed a bladder stone the size of a small fingernail. Due to the fact that he has recovered ok from the first surgery, and we didn't want him to loose more weight and ruin his progress, we opted to have surgery #2 that day, on Sept 19th.

    He was quite a champ and started recovering well. Until 1-2 weeks ago, we noticed the same pattern: weight gain stopped and started losing although eating, drinking lots of water, squeezing when peeing/pooing. My vet is on maternity leave so got the piggie to another exotic pet vet. Xray revealed another stone about the size of the previous one :(. Of course some blood in urine is present.

    Outcome for now: due to his previous very recent surgeries, the dr did not feel comfortable doing surgery on my piggy. Treating with buprenex, metacam, sulfatrim. Awaiting to consult a third vet or my original vet if she can get back to me.

    I am trying to find people who actually dealt with something similar and what was the outcome? I know we have very knowledgeable and experienced peeps here.
    Diet wise I follow this forum's veggie chart (as I have been for 4 years now), for hay we use unlimited KM excellent timothy, 1/8 cup Oxbow pellets. Dr says in this case might be a genetic issue; none of my other piggies have this specific issue.


    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2007
    Location
    PacNW
    Posts
    6,610
    Mentioned
    207 Post(s)
    Quoted
    314 Post(s)
    Thanks
    782
    Thanks
    6,516 Rec'd/2,346 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    I would euthanize rather than put him through another surgery. If it were me (and sadly I have dealt with this exact issue way too many times) and I was faced with the issue again, I'd keep him comfortable as long as possible and then have him euthanized when the pain was too great or he was no longer eating. It's definitely likely to be a genetic issue.

    If you do opt to do surgery again, I'd discontinue the oxbow pellets - they use calcium carbonate in their formulas. Either stop feeding pellets altogether or switch to KMs and I would feed only very low calcium veggies (do not worry about the "ca:p" ratio - it was based largely on opinion and horse diet when it was originally proposed as relevant to cavies years ago and a calcium deficiency is FAR easier to treat than a bladder stone, anyway) like tomatoes, zucchini, cucumber, peppers, etc. That means no lettuce, although you can probably supplement with fresh grass or wheat grass. I'd also consider switching to oat hay only. Orchard grass is slightly lower in calcium than timothy and higher in protein, so you might offer limited amounts of that as well.

    I've unfortunately had several stone and sludge pigs and the two that had more than two surgeries died within days of their last surgeries. It's too much trauma for their little bodies and I would never go that route again.

    Best of luck to you and I wish you well in your choices in this really crappy matter.

  3. "Thank you, Paula, for this useful post," say these 2 members:


  4. #3
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Thanks Paula, I really appreciate your advice. I have been emailing people like crazy today, reading guinealynx back and forth and I know it is not looking good.
    One of my boars is living alone because he did not get along with the other two piggies. This new diet means I need to make a 3rd cage and isolate another one, so I would have 3 piggies living by themselves o_O, which again might be traumatic - I learned my lesson when my old boar got very sick from this type of stress.

    I would normally not even blink for surgery, but having 2 surgeries in a matter of these last 4 months and a very experienced vet saying no, made me weigh in the options. I am awaiting the other vet to call/email me back and go from there - whether that means continuing pain meds until the obstruction and imminent death occurs, or a possible 3rd surgery with 50/50 chance.

    Please keep this thread going if possible.

  5. #4
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Forgot mentioning I have tried KM pellets and I had no success. Did everything "by the book" and they just didn't like it. Awkward, although KM hay they love and would spit put any other brand.

  6. #5
    Moderator foggycreekcavy's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 04, 2009
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    Posts
    6,149
    Mentioned
    393 Post(s)
    Quoted
    773 Post(s)
    Thanks
    176
    Thanks
    1,243 Rec'd/995 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    How long ago was it that you tried the KM pellets? It's possible they will like them now--they've gone through a few changes. I would try them again.

  7. #6
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    My piggy stopped cleaning himself yesterday/today and stopped drinking water. He's been barely moving.

    Saw the vet today and agreed on not giving him buprenex anymore. He's been drowsy and really slowed down his bowel.


    Giving SubQ fluids 2x/day and started Critical Care although I saw him eating. Continuing Metacam and Sulfatrim, Pedialyte, organic Cranberry juice and extra vit C. I read about some Oxbow products - the Urinary Support Supplement and the Immune Support. Would like to try them out for all the piggies.


    Only if the piggy gains weight we can talk about a possible next step, like surgery. Until then, just hoping he can get through this.



    @foggycreekcavy, maybe a year ago. might have been two.

  8. #7
    Moderator foggycreekcavy's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 04, 2009
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    Posts
    6,149
    Mentioned
    393 Post(s)
    Quoted
    773 Post(s)
    Thanks
    176
    Thanks
    1,243 Rec'd/995 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    My pigs don't like Oxbow's new supplements.

    It's possible the stone is moving down the urinary tract, and possible even stuck in the ureter. If so, there's really nothing that can be done--surgery usually isn't an option at that point.

  9. #8
    Cavy Newbie Annmarie's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 02, 2012
    Location
    Parkland, Washington, United States
    Posts
    151
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Quoted
    22 Post(s)
    Thanks
    33
    Thanks
    27 Rec'd/25 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    I am so sorry to hear about your guinea. My guinea, Emma had the exact same thing. She was only 6 months old and we opted to euthenize her because she was in so much pain. Pain Meds and antibiotics weren't working. The vet said it was probably genetics. Good luck and again I am very sorry.

  10. #9
    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner Agrimony's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2012
    Location
    Newburgh, NY
    Posts
    1,352
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Quoted
    134 Post(s)
    Thanks
    260
    Thanks
    208 Rec'd/157 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    I wish I had advice for you, I have never gone through anything quite like that before. I truly wish you and your piggie the best best of luck and you will be in my thoughts. I'm glad it at least sounds like you have an experienced and caring vet, and that you are doing everything in your power for him. Please keep us posted.

  11. #10
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    So...thankfully we are still here. Taking him off buprenex was a good call, he seems more alert. He still eats by himself (do not think enough as he used too), and even with me feeding him Critical Care he is not gaining weight. I guess I am just keeping him afloat.

    SubQ is helping but it's a lot of stress on both sides. The meds (sulfa & metacam) seems to make him just a bit less uncomfortable, but I do have the buprenex ready at any sign of great discomfort. Will probably follow up with another vet visit and see what is next. Wish I could do more and I feel like a helpless mom. Thank you for all the advice, support and comfort!

  12. #11
    Cavy Slave gigiroxstar's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 15, 2012
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Quoted
    22 Post(s)
    Thanks
    63
    Thanks
    19 Rec'd/17 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Hope everything goes alright! You will be in my thoughts.

  13. #12
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    End of week 2 of no progress.
    We are still feeding Critical Care, he eats veggies on his own, but no weight gain. We consulted the doctor again as I said, but there is nothing more we can do. The bladder needs to have enough fluids so the stone does not cause more pain. Hanging in there as much as he shows signs of not being in great discomfort.

  14. #13
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Well here we are, a few weeks later. We have done as much as we could to improve his weight. Even by increasing the Critical Care amount, it has not worked. Good news is he has not gone worse either. We have consulted the vet last week and have made a decision. He is having surgery next week, on Tuesday.

    We are well aware of the risks involved, but we are willing to try one more time. He is not showing signs of extreme distress to give up on him, nor is he having a decent quality life with the stone to just let it be.

    If it turns out well we are sending the stone to the lab to see what type it is and what might be causing it. This way we can target his special diet and go from there. Other than that...just keeping our fingers crossed and having a stash of coffee to deal with the sleepless nights.

  15. #14
    Cavy Slave 3cpiggies's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    71
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Quoted
    7 Post(s)
    Thanks
    5
    Thanks
    7 Rec'd/7 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    I wish your little guy and you the best of luck.

  16. #15
    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2007
    Location
    PacNW
    Posts
    6,610
    Mentioned
    207 Post(s)
    Quoted
    314 Post(s)
    Thanks
    782
    Thanks
    6,516 Rec'd/2,346 Posts

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Best of luck to you and to him on surgery day! I wanted to mention I discovered a trick recently with subQs that has helped me significantly, and that's that using an 18 gauge x 1" syringe (instead of butterfly winged syringes) it is SO much better on both ends - the fluid goes in quickly, which reduces stress for both; also, assuming he's a normal sized piggy, I assume you're supposed to be injecting 60 CCs at a time, and I've discovered that if you split that up to two 30 CC injections morning and night, that also relieves the stress and the discomfort associated with pushing that much fluid at once.

    Again, best of luck and please keep us posted!

  17. #16
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula View Post
    Best of luck to you and to him on surgery day! I wanted to mention I discovered a trick recently with subQs that has helped me significantly, and that's that using an 18 gauge x 1" syringe (instead of butterfly winged syringes) it is SO much better on both ends - the fluid goes in quickly, which reduces stress for both; also, assuming he's a normal sized piggy, I assume you're supposed to be injecting 60 CCs at a time, and I've discovered that if you split that up to two 30 CC injections morning and night, that also relieves the stress and the discomfort associated with pushing that much fluid at once.

    Again, best of luck and please keep us posted!
    I am very much interested in your method Paula. I'm just afraid I am not too familiar with the English terminology on this one and I want to make sure I am following you. Photos would help. The high stress is the reason I eventually gave up on SubQ, but that's because I could "afford" it, in the sense that the piggy was easily accepting fluids by mouth. You are correct on the quantity, it was 50-60cc daily.


    Quote Originally Posted by 3cpiggies View Post
    I wish your little guy and you the best of luck.
    Thanks for all the encouraging thoughts.

  18. #17
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    It has been a rough night/day.
    Last feeding for yesterday was midnight. I woke up at 4am for morning feeding and got frightened. His weight has drastically dropped and I was not sure by the way we was looking that we'll make it to the doc.

    Surgery went better than expected given the situation and now I am awaiting for him to come around so I can start slowly feeding him a bit. I have tried like 4cc of pedialyte which he has accepted drop by drop.
    The stone was bigger than the previous one. As far as I understand, without fluid, the bladder is about the size of a thumb nail, and the stone was taking 3/4. We are gonna do a culture and stone analysis and we'll have the result this week. He's on metacam and chloramphenicol. Diet wise check out guinea lynx for bladders stones, but not as impo as him making it out of the woods and start recovering and gaining weight.

  19. #18
    Cavy Slave
    Joined
    Nov 01, 2012
    Posts
    605
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Quoted
    55 Post(s)
    Thanks
    1
    Thanks
    55 Rec'd/46 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Your in my thoughts! Best of luck to you and your pigs!

  20. #19
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Hey guys! Just as an update we are doing ok. He started eating a bit more by himself, but Critical Care is a must.

    I have noticed a stronger pee smell. Blood in urine has disappeared since the 2nd day after surgery, he gets a lot of water/Pedialyte by mouth and the antibiotic of course. Have not noticed any deposits in it, and it is very clear, but I would almost say it just has a stronger odor like a rabbit pee (no offense intended).

    Been notified that the lab results are in and being checked out by the vet. I guess I will know more this week. I hope we don't have to change the antibiotic.

  21. #20
    Cavy Slave BubuCandyBlue's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 12, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A & Europe
    Posts
    469
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    8 Post(s)
    Thanks
    31
    Thanks
    41 Rec'd/35 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Bladder stones issue

    Results came back with no significant bacteria in the urine culture but even the one that was there was sensitive to the antib. chloranphenicol.
    The stone was the common 100% calcium oxalate.

    The piggy is recovering very slow in comparison with the other surgeries. Noticed a very small weight increase but that's about it. Vet recommended distilled water instead of tap water, switch to KM pellets, and we'll see after New Year's what's the plan. I am kinda out of 1cc syringes, need to order more Critical Care too and some BeneBac while I am it and some liquid vit C (getting tired of crushing the tablet on a daily basis)

    Here's to a better year with healthy dear piggies!

User Tag List

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •