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Thread: Cloning Vs. Adoption

  1. #1
    Cavy Newbie mufasa's Avatar
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    Cloning Vs. Adoption

    This past week our local paper had the story of three families who cloned former pets. Apparently you can have it done overseas at a cost of $100,000 to $150,000.

    As I read their gushing stories of, "He's so much like our old Rover!" I couldn't help but be disgusted. I'm sure Rover was a great dog, but millions of other dogs who are just as great die in shelters every year. Why not adopt one of them and start a spay/neuter fund or rescue in Rover's name with that $150,000 you just pissed away to bring another life into an already overpopulated world and to let another dog die?

    Don't get me wrong, I know that it's like to have a "one of a kind" animal. I feel that way about my first horse, Cochise, and my cat, Vinnie. I love all my animals, but those two hold a special place in my heart. Would I clone them if I hit the lottery and had the chance? Absolutely not. First, it's NOT the same animal, no matter what people try to tell themselves, any more than identical twins are the same. Second, I believe in rescue, not breeding, and cloning is breeding (not to mention the failures in the process). Third, life is an adventure, and I know I have many more new animal friends poised to cross paths with me. They'll be waiting for me at a shelter or on the streets, not at a lab.

    Sorry for the rant. I saw the article as I was lining Borat and Amy's play pen with newspaper this morning, and I just had to get that off my chest! Hopefully Amy will do a nice, big pee on the story.

  2. #2
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    I know what you mean, there was a story on tv one day about a woman with her prize horse but he couldnt reproduce, so she cloned him and there you are a baby horsey was running around that will later become a stud it is wrong,

  3. #3
    Cavy Star, Photo Contest Winner pinky's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    It's not something that the average person could afford to even consider so it's not something I worry about. Obviously, there are people with so much money that they feel a need to find something they think will give them some happiness or satisfaction. They must not have very much else in their lives.

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    Cavy Slave Crystalkate's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    I hadn't even realized cloning had come that far that the animal would survive and live a normal life.

  5. #5
    Cavy Newbie mufasa's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystalkate View Post
    I hadn't even realized cloning had come that far that the animal would survive and live a normal life.
    Me either. The last I'd heard, the commercial place here in the U.S. that was set up for it, and that successfully cloned a cat, had shut down years ago. Then I suddenly saw this headline and discovered that overseas they're doing it pretty regularly and are happy to accept American money. I suspect there are still a lot of unfortunate "rejects" in the process.

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    Cavy Slave Crystalkate's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    That is just creepy! I don't think you can ever completely clone something. Everyone has their own soul, and that can't be duplicated. Technically identical twins are clones, but they are their own person.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    The problem with cloning is that DNA is that whenever it replicates it loses a bit of its integrity. Think of DNA as the zipper on a suitcase, one with two zippers. When it is replicated it is unzipped as far as it will go. The DNA is copied, but the parts covered up by the zipper are not copied. The result is a shorter strand of DNA. Now at the ends of our DNA there is a lot of junk which doesn't matter and it protects the crucial sequences. When you clone an animal you take DNA that has already been replicated a lot already so the cloned animals DNA starts to lose crucial sequences when it is replicated.

  8. #8
    Cavy Slave Petlovr's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    That's a really stupid way to spend money. Do these people think they don't have to grieve their loss because they have a clone? Our experiences shape us just as much as environment, so cloning isn't the answer to avoiding the pain of losing an animal; it's not the same animal.

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    Cavy Slave MissJean's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Yeah, I think those people need to examine the possibility of having emotional problems. Or perhaps they just want to be apart of something we consider to be a huge step for medical science, even if it's a small inconsenquential way.

    Cloning individual organs for medical reasons is amazing, cloning your pet is not really. In my opinion.

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    Cavy Slave PigPandemonium's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Well if they are able to clone animals, then could they use this technology to clone, say an endangered animal to keep them from going extinct, instead of focusing on cloning family pets to satisfy someones need to recreate a replica of their dead animal?

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by PigPandemonium View Post
    Well if they are able to clone animals, then could they use this technology to clone, say an endangered animal to keep them from going extinct, instead of focusing on cloning family pets to satisfy someones need to recreate a replica of their dead animal?
    The problem with that is you need funding and practice. Cloning these animals helps fund cloning research. And cloning endangered animals can be dangerous. We don't want another Jurassic Park fiasco.

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    Cavy Newbie mufasa's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Oh my. I just did some research on the labs where this is done, which are both in Seoul, South Korea. Unlike the one that used to clone cats here in the U.S., where the surrogates were adopted out, they send the unneeded dogs to be eaten (as in, by humans). I know that's the norm there, but...I dunno...

  13. #13
    Cavy Slave MissJean's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    The Korean Ministry of Agriculture surveyed dog meat consumption and found 59% of the population under age 30 thought of dogs as pets, not food. With the younger generations this meat is becoming less popular. Just so nobody's opinion of South Korea is tarnished too much...

    Where did you find that the unneeded dogs get eaten?

  14. #14
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    There was a girl in one of my classes who worked at a pet store and a family came in looking for a dog to eat for a wedding feast. They were turned away, but they probably found a breeder.

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    Lethal Guru
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Lol, Jurassic Park. Non-avian dinosaur DNA seems to be too old to be recoverable from fossils, and the mosquito thing is practically impossible. We have proteins from fossils (collagen, keratin, and heme) but DNA is very fragile.

    If you want dinosaur DNA it can easily be found in any bird. I don't know if birds have been cloned yet. But nobody would go to see a park filled with pigeons, chickens, and kiwis. Now, ostriches, hoazins, and seriemas are pretty cool dinosaurs. But anyway, if we wanted to clone extinct dinosaurs, we probably should start with the passenger pigeon, dodo, elephant bird, or perhaps the Terror Bird. Or perhaps not, because the Terror Bird was like a 1000 pound tyrannosaurus with a short tail and a beak.

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    Cavy Newbie mufasa's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by MissJean View Post
    Where did you find that the unneeded dogs get eaten?
    Last paragraph of this story: South Korea's Dog Cloning Industry Raises Ethical Red Flags - ABC News
    Other sources say the same, so it looks like it's the unfortunate truth.

  17. #17
    Cavy Slave MissJean's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by salana View Post
    Lol, Jurassic Park. Non-avian dinosaur DNA seems to be too old to be recoverable from fossils, and the mosquito thing is practically impossible. We have proteins from fossils (collagen, keratin, and heme) but DNA is very fragile.

    If you want dinosaur DNA it can easily be found in any bird. I don't know if birds have been cloned yet. But nobody would go to see a park filled with pigeons, chickens, and kiwis. Now, ostriches, hoazins, and seriemas are pretty cool dinosaurs. But anyway, if we wanted to clone extinct dinosaurs, we probably should start with the passenger pigeon, dodo, elephant bird, or perhaps the Terror Bird. Or perhaps not, because the Terror Bird was like a 1000 pound tyrannosaurus with a short tail and a beak.
    Um, speak for yourself. I'd love to visit a park dedicated to pigeons, chickens, and kiwis.

  18. #18
    Cavy Slave CinnandMegsMom's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    I'm am both a scientist and spiritual. I know, they are not supposed to mix.

    Guess I would have to go to Steven Hawking and Gordon Smith for this answer.

  19. #19
    Cavy Slave Crystalkate's Avatar
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    Gosh, if they are cloning animals, I am sure someone out there is trying to clone humans. Where is this world heading?

  20. #20
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Cloning Vs. Adoption

    @salana I knew that. The only way to "clone" dinosaurs would be to reverse engineer millions of years of genetic mutations or invent a time machine.

    On a side note all bananas are clones.

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