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Nutrition Ca and Wheatgrass

Gigabyte

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My guinea pig gets gritty white spots if he has too much Oxbow (we've been through this, I can't change pellets due to KM's prices), and if he has romaine lettuce. I know already that I need a Brita pitcher for the pig to eliminate anything icky in the water.

But, I want to give him wheatgrass. I hear it is high in calcium but have no proof.

Should I feed it or avoid it?
 

bpatters

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You could give him a little and see what happens.

BTW, I live in Houston, 2,000 miles from KM, and Oxbow and KM pellets are within pennies of the same price here. Depending on shipping, on time KM will be a few pennies per pound more expensive, another time it will be Oxbow. The difference has never been as much as a dime a pound. Since you're half the distance to KM, her stuff ought to be consistently cheaper than Oxbow.
 

Gigabyte

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It costs me $11 to ship to where I am.
 

bpatters

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But the price of KM pellets is way less than Oxbow. So even with shipping, KM should be cheaper.

The only way to compare is to figure out the price per pound.

And you have to remember, you're paying shipping for Oxbow too. The store you buy it from just adds their shipping price to their price for the pellets, plus their overhead and profits, and quotes you one price. KM quotes you a much smaller price for the pellets, and the shipping is separate. Still cheaper, I'd bet my hat.
 

Gigabyte

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Are there any actual benefits from KM over Oxbow besides price? Because I don't see them being much lower in calcium than Oxbow.
 

Gigabyte

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But the price of KM pellets is way less than Oxbow. So even with shipping, KM should be cheaper.

The only way to compare is to figure out the price per pound.

And you have to remember, you're paying shipping for Oxbow too. The store you buy it from just adds their shipping price to their price for the pellets, plus their overhead and profits, and quotes you one price. KM quotes you a much smaller price for the pellets, and the shipping is separate. Still cheaper, I'd bet my hat.
I think I'll just send the Oxbow back and get some KM. From what I read, the calcium in Oxbow comes from added limestone or something and makes stones form easier. So I guess I'll stick it out and order some KM and see how it goes.

Turns out shipping for 10lbs of Timothy Choice from KM is $13. Ow.
 
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bpatters

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They're not lower in calcium. And if your pigs don't have any white urine problems on Oxbow, they're fine. But if they do, KM seems to be a good alternative. They use a different calcium compound than Oxbow does, but that may or may not be the key difference. There may be some trace minerals in Oxbow that causes the secretion, or some in KM that prevents it. I don't guess we'll ever know what it is, because there's certainly no company out there who would invest in research in calcium excretion in guinea pigs.
 

cavy_jdas

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You can order 10lbs from Sweet Meadow and they offer usps flat rate shipping, which is a few dollars cheaper than your total from KM ($21 vs. $24). (broken link removed)
 

Delaine

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KM uses dicalcium phosphate as their calcium source, but it is not listed on the ingredient list. I don't know if it is different in the U.S. but when I put an order in to see how much shipping costs would be to my address it came up with $37.00. When I mentioned the cost to KM they said they could ship it a different way. Maybe e-mail them because they told me if I just do an estimate for shipping on the order form it will show a higher amount than if I e-mail them to put in an order. Maybe that only applies to Canada.
 
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Delaine

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Gigabyte: Before you send back your Oxbow pellets, maybe check out dicalcium phosphate.
 

Gigabyte

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Gigabyte: Before you send back your Oxbow pellets, maybe check out dicalcium phosphate.
I feel clueless.
So, the problem is dicalcium phosphate? Or not? D:
 

Nicolene

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You don't have to feed pellets, none of our animals get any. Not even our dog. My vet is very much against them, and when the dog went on a real food diet her lifelong skin problem cleared right up. We stopped feeding the pigs pellets when one developed stones. Absolutely not blaming the pellets, but we needed to control the Ca. When we got the overweight bunny the vet again said, ditch the pellets, and the exercise, fresh veggies and lots of hay she's lost almost a pound. There are no pellets in nature, so if it becomes a hassle consider forgetting about it..
 

bpatters

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Gigabyte, re calcium diphosphate:

KM seems to be a good alternative. They use a different calcium compound than Oxbow does, but that may or may not be the key difference. There may be some trace minerals in Oxbow that causes the secretion, or some in KM that prevents it. I don't guess we'll ever know what it is, because there's certainly no company out there who would invest in research in calcium excretion in guinea pigs.
 

Delaine

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I feel clueless.
So, the problem is dicalcium phosphate? Or not? D:

I have no idea what calcium source is best. I think the experiences of the people on this forum is our best indicator of which pellets are best. It is more difficult and probably more expensive for me to KM pellets in Canada, but not impossible. I am going to e-mail KM and see if I can get a total cost. I may have to pay a brokerage fee on top of the shipping?? I have just switched totally to Oxbow a couple of days ago and I will monitor the situation. The stools seem much better, but we will see if there is more sludge in the urine.
 

bpatters

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Unless she's changed her policy, she won't ship to Canada. She used to, but the import/export situation between the US and Canada changed, and she can't do it any more without a whole bunch of red tape that makes it too hard for her, and too expensive for the Canadians, for her to ship there.
 

Delaine

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Unless she's changed her policy, she won't ship to Canada. She used to, but the import/export situation between the US and Canada changed, and she can't do it any more without a whole bunch of red tape that makes it too hard for her, and too expensive for the Canadians, for her to ship there.

Hi bpatters: I e-mailed KMs and Nessa (Shipping Manager) said, "We do have alternatives for shipping to Canada at the moment. We are using USPS flat rate boxes. Because they are a special discounted rate over typical shipping, we can only fit up to 20 lbs. in them, so 10 or 20 lbs pellets at a time. We can't use the website for these orders because the website doesn't calculate the shipping using the discounted rates so if you choose FedEx or USPS your order ends up costly roughly the amount of a second mortgage. What we do is orders through e-mail, where you give me your address and I do up a quote for you, and then if that number works for you, you can pay using Paypal." I hope this helps any Canadians wanting to order KMs pellets.
 

bpatters

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Good news! I'll pass it along over at GL.
 

cavy_jdas

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You don't have to feed pellets, none of our animals get any. Not even our dog. My vet is very much against them, and when the dog went on a real food diet her lifelong skin problem cleared right up. We stopped feeding the pigs pellets when one developed stones. Absolutely not blaming the pellets, but we needed to control the Ca. When we got the overweight bunny the vet again said, ditch the pellets, and the exercise, fresh veggies and lots of hay she's lost almost a pound. There are no pellets in nature, so if it becomes a hassle consider forgetting about it..

This is an excellent point.
 

cavy_jdas

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Back to the original question... Wheatgrass has about 1/4 the calcium content of spinach. I would think it's okay to feed.
 

bpatters

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One side point. There may be no pellets in nature, but wild cavies live only a fraction of the lifetime of our pets. Calcium isn't the only reason for feeding pellets -- they also have vitamins and trace minerals that cavies need. Also, much guinea pig food was developed after research to determine what components best satisfied their dietary needs.

That's not to say that they can't live without pellets, but it takes a good deal of effort on the part of the owner to be sure that they get everything else they need. It's also not to say that individual cavies can't have problems with the best of pellets, but it wasn't an accident that GP pellets wound up with the ingredients they have.

In the next few weeks, Oxbow is coming out with several promising-looking dietary supplements, so it may be easier to round out a cavy diet without having to feed pellets.
 
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