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Thread: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys..

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Unhappy Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys..

    I hate that I must write in this section but I have a few questions for you folks unfortunately..

    The background information is, my guinea pig, Wednesday, has been pooping/peeing blood for about a week now :'( I can tell it's painful because she freezes up and makes those painful soft squeals and arches her back when it passes through..
    I DID finally take her to the vet yesterday, and just to clear up why it took me a full week to get her seen, I have been unemployed since October and my new job doesnt begin until Feb 9th.. I wasn't anticipating an emergency like this obviously, and my boyfriend who is lending me the money for the vet expenses was away on business for the past 3 days, so unfortunately thats why she wasn't able to be seen til yesterday.. Thankfully my vets did let me take her in and give them an IOU (I live in a small town in NH, they don't bill & I don't have a bank account so they couldn't hold any checks :( ) because the Exotic Pets doctor only works Monday - Thursday and I could NOT go a full weekend without her being seen..
    He checked her out and said the bleeding wasn't from her rectum or intestines, but her bladder was swollen. He prescribed her an antibiotic called "Sulfatrim Pediatric Suspension" and told me it's 1 of 3 possible things..

    A.) A Bladder Infection, which is what I am PRAYING is the case.. he said if it is a bladder infection, the antibiotics will have her feeling good as new and once we finish off the bottle she'll be good as new again.

    B.) Bladder Stones.. He said while on the antibiotics she'll pep-up and feel good, but once we run out of the medicine she'll go back to feeling terrible again because obviously it won't magically make the stone disappear.. So the next thing would be to have her x-rayed, which will cost me $88 just for that then most likely surgery.. :-/

    or option C.) A Uterus Infection.. he said the antibiotics MAY make her feel a little better, but it's unlikely.. and if thats the case then we'd have to get her an Ultra Sound which is $120 and again, surgery would follow that.

    So far she's been given 2 doses of the antibiotics (supposed to give it to her twice daily, so once last night and once this morning) and she isn't showing ANY signs of feeling even the slightest bit better..
    but, I also wanted to add that she shares a cage with another female guinea pig, named Vanek.. When I first got Vanek and tried to introduce the two, they would full out lounge at one another and battle (although blood was never drawn), I then made a large C&C cage and put a divider down the middle so they could see one another in hopes that eventually I could remove the divider, but they would spend all day growling and try and chew/dig through the metal to get to the other one.. then one day my cat got into my room and Wednesday and Vanek both jumped out of the cage and hid together in a sweatshirt on my floor for I don't even know how long.. I was working a 4 - 9 shift and got home at 9:45 so for all I know it could have been hours. Nobody was hurt (they're long haired and my cat has the tiniest head ever, I don't think she could even fit a foot in her mouth!) but I immediately built a new, single cage and they've lived together ever since.. they only tolerate each other, but daily I hear growling and squeals coming from their cage and Vanek is always mounting Wednesday.
    Vanek is very dominant, and Wednesday is now, very submissive. The issue now is, is since I took Wednesday from the cage for an hour to the vet, now Vanek is mounting Wednesday every 5 seconds and keeps driving Wednesday into the igloo and keeping her in there.. When ever Wednesday tries to leave the igloo Vanek automatically starts growling, shaking her butt and mounting Wednesday so I don't think Wednesday is even trying anymore to leave the igloo, which means she hasn't been eating or drinking...
    The vets said I shouldn't separate them and just force feed Wednesday instead (i'm about to go out and buy groceries and pick up tons of fruits and veggies in hopes that that will get her eating..) but I feel like Vanek is causing way too much stress for her during her illness... I am hesitant because If I separate them, One will get the cage, and the other will be on a makeshift cage on the floor and I am afraid I will be put through hell trying to reintroduce them again.. And I am also considering splitting the 2x3 C&C wire cage I built in half until Wednesdays next vet appointment on Monday.. so that way they'll still see each other but this way Wednesday will have some peace of mind and maybe Vanek will get more floor time this weekend?

    So after that whole story book I just wrote.. the questions I have for you guys are; what do you think about the separation issue? would I be terrible for splitting a 2x3 wire cage in half (I know it's small for two, but my bedroom is a little over 9ft by a little over 10ft, and I have my bed, a rolltop desk, and two beuros.. literally ALL the walls are occupied by furniture/cages so until I move out this summer a 2 by 3 has to do..) so I KNOW they'll be able to live together again, or take the risk and put one in a temp floor cage and one in the other, with the risk that they possibly won't be able to live together again?
    Also, I have read many of the forums about stones and having the surgery, could anyone give me an estimate they paid? I have $250 - $350 figure in my head as to what to expect worst case senario.. But I haven't asked the vets because I am HOPING that won't have to be done... but I'd just like some realistic figures that you all have paid, I know it will vary... but yeah. Help? Advice? Suggestions?
    Thanks.

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    Administrator lissie's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I'm sorry you're going through this. I agree with your vet not to separate them. I'd take the pigloo out though. Make tents from towels or fleece, they make great hideys. They take up no space and the pigs can get away from each other and not get trapped in the pigloo. Another good hidey is fleece forest.

    For feeding time, you can feed them separately. Take Wednesday out of the cage to feed her or take Vanek out so Wednesday can eat peacefully.

    Good luck with the treatment.

    Other than blood in her urine, do you see any white pee spot in the cage at all?

    Did he give her any pain medication?

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    No, no white in her urine at all. It's literally small pools of red blood every time she pees and her poops are very mushy and seem to get "stuck" on her outer rectum until the next poop comes to push that one out of place :'(

    And no pain meds yet.. I went in to pay today and mentioned how I had not seen her eat since the vet visit so they gave me loads of syringes to try hand feeding her..

    BUT I gave each pig 1/4 celery chopped up into small squares and 1/4 of red bell pepper, but of COURSE none of my pigs liked the pepper and only ate the celery, but for now, thats a good sign for Wednesday because it's mostly water, which she needs, and it's at least a *little* something to get her digestive system moving..

    And when I put her back in the cage (I fed Wednesday on the floor since syringeing her her medicine is a task and I really need to have her in my grasp to stop the fidgeting) I placed the remaining veggies in her and Vanek's bowl, she came out of hiding to see what I was putting in the bowl, so GOOD sign so far, movement, yay! she's literally only been lying in the igloo since the vets..
    But while feeding her she did stop eating/chewing a few times because she was having a bowel movement, and although it did not look comfortable, she didn't make any painful squeals and there was very little blood, and it's now a dark red/brown.. It didn't even look liquidy this time, just like dried blood... so perhaps for the time being while on the meds she's losing her symptoms and HOPEFULLY they won't return? I can only hope! :-/

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    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    Unless you have an xray you aren't going to know if there's a stone and antibiotics will treat the symptoms, but they will return in short order if there's a stone in there.

    In my experience, when a pig also has problems pooping, it's usually because there's a stone rather than it *just* being a bladder infection.

    And you absolutely must make sure she's eating - handfeed at least three times a day (more if you can) until she's eating a sufficient amount on her own. If she doesn't eat, her digestive system can shut down, which can quickly become a fatal situation. They aren't like dogs and cats and can't go without eating for hours without potentially dire consequences. Did the vet give you Critical Care for her? A small piece of celery isn't going to be enough to sustain her gut motility.

    I'd strongly suggest a pain med and something like Reglan so that hopefully she'll be more likely to eat. Are you giving a probiotic along with the antibiotic? If not, you need to be, and you need to get her on it, stat.

    Good luck to you and little Wednesday.

  5. "Thank you, Paula, for this useful post," says:


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    Administrator bpatters's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    Ditto Paula. She's got to eat, or she'll die. You can see instructions for handfeeding at www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html. She won't love it, and you'll have to be very firm with her -- it's called "force" feeding for a reason.

    If the vet didn't give you Critical Care for her, see if you can get hold of some Critter Be Better at a pet store -- it's similar to Critical Care. You need to try to get 50-60 ml. per day into her, and it will probably take 4-5 sessions to do it. If you can't find the Critter Be Better, pulverize some pellets in a Cuisinart or blender and make a mush of that.

    You can try feeding her any of those things on a spoon, and hope and pray she'll take it that way -- it's far easier than giving it to her by syringe. Plain canned pumpkin (not pie mix) is something that some pigs like, and will eat the supplement better if it's mixed together. Some pigs also like unflavored Pedialyte -- you can use that to make the mush with. It will give her some added electrolytes.

    Good luck, and let us know how she does.

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I will definitely look into Critical Care and call the vet tomorrow about it.
    And I have been force feeding her, heh.. Sorry to make it sound like I only gave her a fourth of celery but I've been syringe feeding her mush pellets..
    And correct me if I'm wrong, but for the probiotic it is my understanding that I should collect a fresh poop from her cage mate, dissolve it in water and add it to the mashed pellets I'm giving her? Right? If so, should I do this EVERY time I am force feeding her? Once a day maybe? Or just one time flat? That part I am a bit unsure about..

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    Administrator bpatters's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    If she's on antibiotics, she needs the probiotic 1-2 hours after she gets the dose of antibiotic. If she's not on A/Bs, you can give it whenever you like. And yes, poop soup from a cage mate is good. It's even better if you can get a cecal poop, but good luck on getting the pig to give it up. You can also buy plain acidophilus tables at the drugstore, and give her some of that.

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I think I'll go the uhm, "poop soup" route hah.. The whole stressful part of this situation is I've been unemployed since October, and I don't start my new job until Feb 9th, so I am completely broke and am having to borrow money from my boyfriend to pay the vet bills, so I am trying to keep costs as low as possible for him since he's doing this for me after he just started a new job :(

    But I'll give her the poop tomorrow morning when I give her the antibiotics.. I think they're for curing UTI's which I don't think is what she has.. but it seems to be giving her some relief (which it seems to be doing since I've been monitoring her) I definitely think an x-ray is whats coming next though, she definitely isn't recovering as if this were only a bladder infection so it's got to be much worse..
    I am planning on doing the x-ray because it's only $88, where as the Ultrasound is $120 and I am trying to be a little cheap considering I am expecting she's going to need surgery. Do you guys think the x-ray will be effective enough to show possible stones or an inflamed uterus? (the Dr said he expects she either has a Bladder Infection, which I doubt thats what she has, Bladder Stones, or a Uterus Infection)

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    Administrator bpatters's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    One thing, don't give her the poop soup when you give the antibiotics -- that diminishes the effectiveness of both of them, particularly the probiotic. If she's not taking an antibiotic, she can take the probiotic any time you want to give it to her.

    The bleeding and the squeaking says "stone" to me more than "infection," and either of those more than "inflamed uterus." But it could be any one of them. If I were having money problems, I'd opt for the x-ray. If she has a stone, you should be able to see it. If not, you're down to two possible infections. With any luck, it will respond to an antibiotic. If it doesn't, then you've at least had a few days to think about what you want to do, and to see if you can gather together some money for more treatment.

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    Oh yeah, I know, 1 or 2 hours after giving her the antibiotic, correct? I had given her the antibiotic around 8pm and the first I heard/read about probiotics was 11:45 so I figured my chance was shot and to wait until the morning..
    I just tried again to force feed her the pellets and it was rough.. She spit out quite a bit of it and I am not entirely sure how much of it she actually consumed.. I don't own a blender or coffee grinder so I had to mash it the best I could with a spoon so it was fairly thick and dried up quickly..

    I am pretty positive my boyfriend is willing to offer as much money as I need, which I am paying him back as soon as I begin my job.. I just want to borrow sparingly, not go out and stock up on "the works", which would be grand, but His and I's 6 year anniversary is in February, as is V-day, and I still owe the poor guy a birthday gift (Dec 1st was his b-day) and Christmas gift.. All my money made for February was supposed to go towards buying him his very belated gifts and then this unexpected tragedy happened so I'm just trying to keep costs low so I'm not repaying him til June or something....

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    Administrator lissie's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    This sounds much more serious that I thought. I thought she was eating on her own but didn't come out because Vanek was blocking her.

    How much mash are you feeding and how often?
    Here's a feeding guideline for Oxbow Critical Care. You can use it as a base amount of the pellet mash to feed until you get the real Critical Care.
    http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/res...front+only.pdf

    Edit to add:
    You can soak pellets in water to make the mash.
    Last edited by lissie; 01-28-12 at 01:15 am.

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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    How are you trying to force feed her? It's best if you've got several 1 cc needle-less syringes, and one larger syringe to refill those with. You should be able to get them from a local pharmacy. If they don't have syringes without needles, ask for the ones with needles, but tell them you're feeding a sick GP, and tell them they can keep the needles -- you just need the syringes.

    Cut the plastic tip off the small syringes, and either sand the edges smooth or stick it in a match flame long enough to soften any burrs. Be sure you pull the plunger out before you do that.

    Use the large syringe to fill the small syringes -- it's easier to get the food into the big one.

    Here's the hard part. Get all your feeding stuff ready. Wrap the pig in a towel, like a burrito, sit down and tuck it firmly under one arm. It may be better to do this on a couch or a large chair so you've got something behind you to keep it from wiggling out. Hold the pig's head firmly with the hand on the side of your body where the pig is.

    With the other hand, take a small syringe and insert into the side of the pig's mouth, behind the front teeth but in front of the back teeth. Wiggle it in, and try to turn it as straight in as you can. Aim to get the end of the syringe at about the same place as the pig's molars.

    Squirt a little bit of food in -- maybe .1 or .2 cc. See if the pig chews. If it does, it's eating. Keep doing this until you can get 10-12 cc. of food in.

    You'll need to do this 5-6 times per day. The pig will not cooperate, unless some miracle occurs. But you are a large human, and this is a small rodent, and you can do this.

    Most people are too timid about holding the pig. You need a firm grip on the head, the body firmly wedged in under your arm, and you need to insist that the syringe go in.

    I'm sorry you've had financial difficulties, and hope that those are close to being over. But you do need to plan for unexpected vet expenses. It's unfair to your pig for it to suffer because you can't afford the medical care. When you start working again, start putting a little money back each paycheck for possible vet bills. And look into CareCredit -- that may help some.

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    Pigaholic Extraordinaire Paula's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    Probiotics can be given either before or after administering antibiotics - an hour or so in either direction. I've always given it before because that way, in theory, the good bacteria will prevent the antibiotic from upsetting the stomach too much.

    Also, for handfeeding, I've always used a 3 mL syringe because it's easy to refill. I put the tip of the syringe between the molars, which causes the pig to start to chew. If a pig is chewing, it's also swallowing, so if you can get them chewing you can be sure they're swallowing something too.

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    Moderator foggycreekcavy's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    The dark, dried blood isn't really a good sign. Usually after a couple of days on antibiotics the bleeding stops altogether with a bladder infection.

    And yes, straining while pooping is more of a sign of stones than a UTI.

    If the blood is dark brown looking and has an odor then it's more like there's a uterine infection.

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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I think the dark brown blood was a one time thing because it's back to looking red.. but it's also not coming out as frequently, but thats because she isn't pooping as much because of her reduced intake.. But she's extremely smelly, thats for sure..

    I'm trying like hell to hand feed her, But I am still not entirely sure if she's getting actual pellets or just the brown water.. I borrowed money and went out and bought Ox-something pellets.. I just have heard theyre a good brand. She is still resisting but she's not spitting it out anymore luckily.. but like I said, I'm not sure if she's getting actual mashed pellets or just the water.. I've had it 'explode' all on me I don't even know how many times, in my hair, all along the walls and my clothes.. It looks like paste but there's frequently build up that I have to dump and start over again and sat with her for an hour straight each time hand feeding her and it doesnt look like the paste/mush pellets is getting any lower in the bowl I am collecting from...

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    Moderator foggycreekcavy's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    What size syringe are you using? Does she make a chewing motion when you are pushing in the syringe? Are you weighing her?

    Being smelly is a bad sign. Did not the vet notice? I wish we knew for sure if it's a bladder stone or pyometra. Because if it's pyometra she needs a spay asap (I wouldn't bother with an ultrasound) and if it's a stone she may need surgery asap, depending on how large the stone it.

    I agree with getting an xray. That way you can see if it's a stone, and if it is act accordingly. If there's no stone (and the antibiotics are not stopping the bleeding), then you will want to decide whether to spay.

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I'm not sure of the syringe size, it's bigger than the one I am using to give her her antibiotics though, but if I cut the end piece off it's to big to put the whole thing into her mouth. So I guess I'm going to have to deal, I'm just going to feed her more frequently. I guess thats the good part about not working currently, I don't have a job to keep me from the house.. But she's having much more bowel movements now so i am thrilled about that.

    I bathed her the night before I took her into the vets because I didnt want her to be totally filthy and stinky, so perhaps he didn't.. but she did leave a big puddle of urine/red blood on the counter so he definitely knows the severity of her case I'd say.. Sucks he only works Mon-Thurs.. I'm going crazy waiting for Monday to arrive.. because I DEFINITELY need pain meds for her on top of what she's getting now.

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    Administrator lissie's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    How much pellets did you put into each mash? Try only one teaspoon per feeding. Add some applesauce (only a bit for flavor). Give 6 feedings per day.
    I like feeding with 3ml syringe, they have wider tips and the mash don't get clog. It would be easier if you load all the mash into a large syringe then fill up the 3ml ones. Get as many 3ml syringes as you need ready before you feed her.

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    Cavy Slave C_Elise's Avatar
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    The problem I am encountering is, is I mash the pellets to literally powder and then add the water, but the pellets absorb the water so quickly that I've got to add more (if I don't they end up drying out instantly and clogging) and be quite generous with it to make it into paste. When I load it up into the syringe and begin feeding, it pushes all the water out (some pellet pieces make it through) and I am left with half a syringe full of dried pellets.. It's making the feeding process take more than an hour to just give her 3 of those which is NOT enough considering majority of it is liquid.. I even cut most of the end off of one and stuck scissors in to stretch it out and STILL clogged..
    I'm losing my mind, I feel like I'm doing something wrong and that it shouldn't be THIS hard?! She's finally not spitting it out, but now this is the new issue I am encountering.. ugh.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Pooping/Peeing blood, 3 possible illnesses, & a few other questions for you guys.

    I'm sorry to hear about wednesday. I'm not sure if this was suggested, but you should cut a back door in the pigloo to give her a way out. Also have more then one hidey if you already don't, so they don't have to share one. My two guys never share, and the mounting etc eventually stopped once they each claimed a hidey and time passed. Always give them an in and an out! I know this is least of your concerns, but I'm sure being jailed in an igloo/afraid of the dominant pigs not helping her out. A jig saw works great through plasti, just be sure to gently sand any rough edges.

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