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Thread: What is Rescuing and Adopting

  1. #21
    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator! VoodooJoint's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Quote Originally Posted by mommyoffive View Post
    that will not change my views on exotics breeding, especially with fish.
    So you think piranha should be legal to sell again? Do you think it's a good idea to sell leopard sharks, stingrays and moray eels to the general public?

    You think it's a good idea for people to be allowed to go out and buy a bear, tiger or lion cub to keep in their backyards?

    How about sugar gliders? Those are pretty harmless right? You think it's a good idea for anyone with the money to spend to be allowed to own these animals?

    Should petsmart be allowed to sell toucans and flamingos? Why not sell baby alligators as well?

    I'm curious what you think about regular people being able to go out and buy those types of animals with no regulations and little restrictions being in place.
    Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You can't let the world judge you too much.

    Maude from Harold and Maude

  2. #22
    Cavy Slave Piggersrule's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Mommyoffive, Since you don't have a problem with breeding birds,reptiles and fish than I guess you won't have a problem with taking in all the unwanted ones that people dump because they are tired of them. Maybe that would change your mind.....you think???

  3. #23
    Cavy Slave Piggersrule's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Quote Originally Posted by jackie158 View Post
    Since this is the kitchen, I am going to express my opinion. I know someone on another forum that is a breeder. It is sick. And she thinks she is responsible. Like someone said, if you think haveing breeders cages the size of a 1 x 1, not pairing your pig with any other pig because you are afrid other piggies will barber the hair and wrapping tissue/tin foil in a pigs hair "to keep a nice coat," is responsible, you better guess again. I would hate to see the people who really neglect animals if breeders who do this think it is ok. It plain out makes me sick. I am starting to hate breeders. Plain and simple, they are clearly in it for one thing and one thing only and thats money and prizes.
    YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!!

  4. #24
    Cavy Slave seagirl96's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Visit a rescue of any type of animal,talk to the people who run it and listen to the stories of unwanted pets and I think you will end up agreeing with Voodoojoint.

    Does anyone want to buy a rattlesnake? You can, you know.

  5. #25
    Cavy Slave Piggersrule's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    About a hundred years ago I was in a pet store, while looking around I could hear something in the back of the store. I went to go investigate and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was a monkey in this tiny metal crete like cage. The cage was a metal tomb with bars in the front. This poor monkey had no room to move around. The lady that was running the store came up to me and said "Isn't he cute" I said "not really, not in a cage" As I was looking at this monkey I noticed he had no teeth. The lady said in order to sell a monkey his teeth had to be pulled out. I was so mad that when the lady tried to give my some lame explanation I turned away and walked out slamming her door closed. I often wonder what ever happened to that poor monkey. It makes me sick what people will sell for money.

  6. #26
    Cavy Slave seagirl96's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    That is so horrible! I hope the poor thing died quickly. That's better than the life of suffering and poor health that little creature was in for.

  7. #27
    Cavy Slave Piggersrule's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    He probably suffered like so many unwanted animals do. Til this day I can still see the suffering this poor monkey was going through in his eyes. The way he was looking at me just broke my heart. Just once I would love to take the person who treats animals like this and stuff their butts in a too small of a cage with no food and water and let them sit in their own filth and see how they like it....take that you stupid animal abuser!!

  8. #28
    Cavy Slave seagirl96's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Here's an interesting web site that explains why it's a bad idea to buy exotic pets: The Exotic Pet Trade

    It says that the Austin zoo is contacted six to ten times a year by people who bought large cats, most commonly tigers, and need to get rid of them. That's ONE zoo in One year. The site makes some alternative suggestions for people who think they a tiger or a panther.

  9. #29
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    As a newbie here, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most folks here probably aren't very into the aquarium hobby. Unlike most other animal hobbyist groups, aquarium hobby clubs are not aimed solely at breeding and competing, but at educating, and learning about fish, tank building, making your own fish food, propagating aquatic plants and all kinds of other stuff.

    Fish are much different than other pets, and its important to recognize that. My fish club runs a fish rescue program, which, though it is rarely used, is widely successful. Yes, there are unwanted fish, mostly big oscars and piranhas, originating from mass producers who supply petshops, not the small colourful hobbyist types of fish. I don't think any of the fish that have ever been placed have been 'hobbyist fish'. Most advanced fish hobbyists don't keep the types of fish found in pet shops, which are horridly mass produced by largescale breeders in florida and singapore, have terrible genetics,and are disease prone.

    The awful genetics of pet shop fish is one of the reasons why it is important for fish hobbyists to breed fish and circulate them through responsible channels. If the pet fish are only bred by these irresponsible breeders who continually line breed, inbreed and rarely outcross, trying so hard to produce crazy new strains....the species deteriorates rapidly. Real fish hobbyists who breed only breed the natural types, and work hard to outcross with different bloodlines to keep the fish pure, and clean, and with good genetics and strong health.

    In fact there are programs to reintroduce some species of fish (haplochromis genus, and goodeid genus) which became extinct in the wild due to watershed mismanagement in third world countries, including Lake Victoria (I believe Nyassa) and some lakes/rivers in South America (don't remember exactly which country...somewhere near the Andes though). And you know where the fish populations came from for these programs? The fish hobbyist community. Many zoos over the globe are working with local fish hobbyist groups to gain individuals to put towards their stock aimed at reintroduction to native habitats. This keeps the genetic pool of these animals as varied as possible, which is crucial to the survival of any species in the wild. There are a few species which have been successfully reintroduced, and several which are being maintained this way through a global effort, with the hopes of reintroducing them in the future.

    FYI, the watershed mismanagement is either pollution (in SA) or introduction of non-native species (nile perch in Africa) for food fishing. It has nothing to do with wild collecting ornamental fish, something many real fish hobbyists now largely frown upon.

    Fish hobbyist clubs are more recently also key in encouraging govts in many south american and south east asian countries to adopt collection policies that are ecologically more responsible, and not to just rape their waters for the pet trade. Beacause of monies raised by hobby groups and initiatives taken, many tropical countries now have a regulated trade, with imposed catch limits, checking stations, regulated export, and collectors licenses. Not entirely ideal, but a BIG step up from the unabashed collections and ecological devastation which formerly took place.

    Many Canadian cities (including the one my fish club is based out of) also has a complete ban on the trade of wild collected fish. While this unfortunately is not any better for animal welfare (which is what the ban was aimed at, it was initiated by PETA) due to the terrible nature of mass fish producers now taking the place of wild collectors, it is much better ecologically, which at least IMO is iVERY important.

    At any rate, I think its important to recognize that fish are a lot different than mammals. If you do occasionally breed fish, it is also really easy to house several hundred small fish happily and healthily in a tank in your basement or elsewhere in your house, until one of your fish geek friends wants to trade you for that 'great new plant' they just propagated, or give you the plans to the new filter they just invented. Actually most hobbyists who occasionally breed, don't really look for homes for their fish offspring, they just keep them on...if a fellow fish geek ever wants some, then they scoop some out and share the wealth.

    Generally speaking, most fish will also stop breeding (but not growing, that's a myth) when the tank hits 'capacity'. So you can have a 50 gallon tank, stock it with your favorite little cichlids from a few of your buddy's tanks and when they've filled the tank, you have a colony. That's that. When the oldest fish complete their lifecycle, some of the young ones will start to reproduce, until the tank hits capacity again. (**capacity is usually determined by territory, not by water quality or available food as is sometimes thought)

    Breeding fish is also very difficult. Its not really something that happens by accident. And if it does, then the parents usually gulp them down, another part of the natural fish world. If you want to raise up some fish, it takes a lot of time and money, daily water changes, hatching brine shrimp eggs in finicky hatching jars, making your own specialty feeds...Its NOT very idiot proof by any stretch of the imagination. The average person would be lucky if they kept fish for 20+ years and they spawned twice, and they got one offspring out of hundreds of eggs.

    Its not the same type of pet over population complexities as when mammals breed.

    I wouldn't expect anyone who is not involved directly with the aquarium hobby to know about that, it isn't very widely spread info. But now that you do know, perhaps if any other fish geeks than myself stumble upon here, you can have a little better understanding about it. And more importantly, when you meet a fish geek who has bred their fish, you can better accept them into your circle of friends, beacause its always good to have more friends

    Its important for anyone, to not judge what they don't know. At the same time, we all do it sometimes, especially when it comes to things important and close to our hearts like animal welfare. So I personally would never fault anyone for thinking negatively of fish hobbyists who occasionally breed. (well at least those who are just ignorant about it through lack of education. Anyone who's read this, well then I'd fault you!!! hehehe, *wink*)

    Just thought I'd clear that up.

    Corie =^..^=

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  11. #30
    Cavy Slave aeonkat's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    I agree with Voodoojoint. I think any un-domesticated animal should not be able to be kept as a pet. We need to stop with the zoos and stop destroying their habitat so they won't need to live in zoos so they won't become extinct. Its about time we start treating animals as we would treat ourselves. I absolutely love reptiles. I will not own any because they deserve to live in their natural habitat, along with fish and birds. It took me a while and a lot of research to even consider getting a cavy. Along with cats and dogs (domesticated) I don't see any other animal as pet-able (yeah I made that word up). I would have adopted a cat(s) if I could have but I live in an apartment.

    I don't support zoos. I don't take my kids to them. A lot of people think I am depriving them, but I want my children to learn that animals in cages are not the norm.

  12. #31
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    I completely agree with you Aeoncat, for the most part. Until, you look at the bigger picture...

    Its about time we start treating animals as we would treat ourselves.
    Most of the human population is mal-nourished. Either scraping to stay alive in a third world country or grossly over fed and undernourished from a fast food diet (I've been to AZ so I know you know what this means!!!). We drink alcohol until we pass out. We smoke ciggarettes until we fall ill and die. We drink caffeine to keep us awake when our bodies tell us we need rest. If we are a little under the weather, we take chemicals which make us feel ok even if we need to rest and heal. As we age, we pound our bodies with synthetic hormones to trick us into feeling young again. Then we die a painful and agonizing death from liver failure or coronary overload or get killed by someone else in an accidental but likely preventable motor vehicle crash.

    I wouldn't wish any animal to be treated the way we treat ourselves!!!! (please note, I understand that this is only the norm, and that yes, some of us do look after ourselves)

    Ideally, I agree, zoos would be a thing of the past, with animals roaming safely and freely in the wild. People would live harmoniously with nature, respect the environment, themselves and their children. However, not all people are capable of this kind of thought. Honestly, its sad, but it appears that most people don't think up stuff like this on their own.

    Beacause of zoos, we have secured all kinds of wildlife refuges, and saved many habitats which would have otherwise been consumed by the greedier types. By allowing the uneducated, and out of touch people to see animals, and learn about them they develop a sense of attachment for them, and on their way out the zoo gates...make a charitable donation to organizations such as the World Wildlife Fund or Friends of the Rainforest, who are making real life differences in maintaining some degree of global biodiversity. Without many of the greater zoos, we would not have all kinds of re-intorduction programs, educational programs for schools, and initiatives to save habitats.

    In my local area (southern Ontario) we are now starting to see bald eagles again, thanks in part to a joint initiative by the toronto zoo, and WWF, and some other groups.

    In the foothills of the canadian rockies, the black footed ferret is fast making a comeback and has been denoted from an endangered species to a threatened species, and will hopefully make it off that list too. The Toronto zoo is also involved in a re-introductory breeding program for the ferrets.

    Now, it needs to be recognized that there are all different kinds of zoos. Like you, never ever in my wildest dreams would I take my child to a roadside zoo to view caged animals. Perhaps as a teenager, only as a lesson in the wrongs of society, followed by some kind of peaceful protest preferably!

    But some of the larger zoos, which operate as vehicles for saving habitat, and educational tools for the public...which house their animals in large fenced acreages, when you're lucky if you actually get to see any of them as the zoo train goes by, the habitats are so large they're often hidden from site. They operate only as non-profit organizations. Most of their animals come to them as rescues, mothers killed by poachers, mamed in a trap, liberated from a roadside zoo or life as an exotic pet....

    They're really doing us more good than harm.

    I know its sad, so sad that a few individuals live this way to benefit the masses. But unfortunately, not all humans are as fortunate as you to come into the world with a soft spot for animals, and as such need more than just a little nudge to push them in that direction.

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  14. #32
    Cavy Slave aeonkat's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    LOL. I guess not Corie. But I do think in the sense of caging animals (zoos, homes) to stare at is unfair. Animals are not here for our entertainment.

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    Cavy Slave bamby71994's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    I adopted mine from a petstore and I hope none of you think I am bad because of it. I adopted him before I knew about petstores he well be one year old in two months. I know for the next one that I will for sure adopt. My mother does not like adoption and believes in breeders but not mills. I have talked her out of all animals except the dogs. I tried my best. Now I look on two shelter sites everyday one was for sale and I was going to get him but by the time I was able to go there I checked and he was gone. Thats ok because I can take a long time to find one that likes my old boar.

  16. #34
    Cavy Slave
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Just wanted to point out - you are not adopting if you go and get an animal from a petstore/breeder.

    This is a generalised comment and is not aimed at anyone.

  17. #35
    Cavy Slave yo FOO xD's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    rabbitncavyluv, I see birds and reptiles in shelters all the time. They are not adopted out quickly because most people don't think about rescuing an animal, they go to a pet store for a bird or reptile. There's even independent bird and reptile rescues. Fish aren't really ever in shelters because people that WOULD take them to a shelter from not wanting them will probably just flush them down the toilet or something.

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    Banned BrainDeadBuster's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Well, from what I'm reading here I gather we are ALL wrong for contributing to owning wild animals. Guinea pigs were indeed wild animals at one time; just like lizards, birds, trantulas, ect. I think people should be required to obtain some sort of permit or licence to own reptiles, ect. I think it's a little hipocritical to tell others they are wrong for wanting an animal that was not wild caught, if it's not the kind of animal you are used to while you own a guinea pig or whatever. Obviously I don't think dogs and cats fall into this "gray" area. Actually, with the amount of feral cats running around and destroying wild life, killing people's chickens, and destroying property, maybe people SHOULD be required to have some sort of permit for cats too. Just a thought.

  19. #37
    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator! VoodooJoint's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    Quote Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster View Post
    Guinea pigs were indeed wild animals at one time; just like lizards, birds, trantulas, ect.
    Please compare a wild guinea pig to a pet guinea pig. There are marked differences.

    Compare a wild tarantula to a pet one--no difference.
    Compare a wild cockatoo to a captive one--no difference.
    Compare a wild Ball Python or Red Tailed Boa to pet ones--no difference
    Compare a wild iguana to one for sale in a pet store--no difference.

    Are you understanding what I'm talking about now?

    Domesticated animals all originated from wild animals at one time but they have been so specifically bred and changed that they no longer resemble their wild cousins except in the most rudimentary of ways and do not posses the natural ability to survive in the wild and have no natural environment. Don't you think that maybe we have enough choices of domesticated animal to be pets? Do we really need to continue to abuse wild animals to try to create newer "pets"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster View Post
    I think people should be required to obtain some sort of permit or licence to own reptiles, ect.
    Exactly what I think should be done! Wild animals are not meant to be pets. When peopel own wild animals this is what happens(these are just a few of the stories that happened within the last week):
    Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
    Boys Find Boa inside Living Room Sofa
    Feral cat too much for man to handle - NOLA.com


    Quote Originally Posted by BrainDeadBuster View Post
    with the amount of feral cats running around and destroying wild life, killing people's chickens, and destroying property, maybe people SHOULD be required to have some sort of permit for cats too. Just a thought.
    Maybe instead of a permit to own cats (or dogs) maybe there should be (the easier and more obvious) spay/neuter laws in effect? I think that would make a lot more sense since it's the morons that allow their unaltered animals to reproduce that are causing the problem.
    Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You can't let the world judge you too much.

    Maude from Harold and Maude

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  21. #38
    Banned BrainDeadBuster's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    I agree with everything you've said except for the whole thing about guinea pigs being different than lizards and snakes and birds. Guinea pigs in the wild look very much like our furry friends here. In south America they catch the wild ones and they behave just like our friends. Many of the bird and lizard and frog species you speak of have been altered by humans. There are plenty of crossbreeds and morphs, just like our guinea pigs. I do not think a lizard bred in captivity is any different than owning a guinea pig bred in captivity. We are just as wrong as someone who owns a frog or whatever. I think people on both ends whom adopt any of these animals can be very responsible and provide that animal with the right requirements, but it is wrong to think that they are wrong and you are right simply because your animal is what you are used to. There are plenty who wouldn't own a guinea pig and prefer birds because that is what they like/are used to. Doesn't mean that adoptee wouldn't take as good of care, it would be different care. I think responsible lizard/snake/frog ownership means not handling the animals much because it would stress them out, and responsible people on that end follow by those guidelines. It's unfair for someone to limit someone else based on their own bias. I beleive that by the standards everyone is setting here, that we too are wrong for owning guinea pigs. So are people that own anything else that easily could of come from the wild. Yes there are a lot of guinea pig breeders, but there are a lot of snake breeders, lizard breeders, bird breeders, frog breeders, goat breeders, ect. The only thing that sets people apart is the fact that many of us "adopted" our guinea pigs, like others that adopt an animal in need. However, by adopting, we still contribute to the problem by providing the companies that make food, water bottles, package hay, toys, bedding, ect for these animals. If we never adopted then we wouldn't be helping to support the businesses that help to feed the animals that breeders and buyers have. Where would petsmart be without the sales of the food, bedding, toy items? Nowhere that's where. So my point is that we are ALL hipocrites here if we cast stones at others, it's easy to see if you step outside your box. Don't get mad at the truth, learn from it.

  22. #39
    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator! VoodooJoint's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    You post is extremely hard to read as one big paragraph and it rambles from here to there and yonder so it's even harder to understand. Please, if you wish to be taken seriously in a discussion or debate write legibly, separate your paragraphs and keep you ideas together. After reading your post I'm a bit confused and I have no intention of trying to read it again--I got enough of a headache the first time. Here are a few points I'd like to make--forgive me if I misinterpreted what your said or missed a few points (the whole hard to read thing).

    Have you actually looked at pictures of wild guinea pigs? probably not. Of course, being herbivores, they can be adapted to living in captivity (most animals can be) but that doesn't make them domesticated.

    If you think that the GPs we have as pets are wild animals then please tell me where the natural habitat of the TSW Abyssinian is and what the purpose of the whorled coat is in the wild. Please do the same for the Dalmatian and roan guinea pig breeds the Peruvian, the satin and the teddy. Please remember to include the reasons for their specific coats or markings in the wild.

    Here are a few pictures of wild cavies
    History of the Guinea Pig (Cavy, Cuy, Cavia porcellus) Click on Patagonian cavies
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kerodon_rupestris.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wildmeerschweinchen-06.jpg
    http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/pictures/Cavia.html - in this page please note that the last 2 pictures are of domesticated guinea pigs. Also note that they have a different Latin name classification meaning that they have been recognized as a slightly different species.

    In each of those pictures I can see marked differances.

    Adopting is different from buying. Yes, I fully support the adoption on all animals (snakes, birds, etc as well as domesticated animals) as long as the adopter can properly care for the animal. I do not support these animals, that have been raised in captivity, being released into the wild. Despite being a wild animal with natural instincts they didn't get the "education" early in life to survive. Granted, most snakes and lizards would do well if released into their true, natural environment but the risk of introducing disease is too great not to mention the cost of transporting reptiles and amphibians all around the world.

    I HATE to hear about these "morph" geckos. It's a fancy way of saying inbreed and crossbred. People have created morphed versions of lions and tigers called Ligers. Since they are morphed and don't resemble an existing wild animal I guess they should be available in petshops for anyone to own. I can "Morph" a wolf in to a "Wusky" by crossing it with a Husky dog. I can probably even create a pure white with black spots, purebred wolf by specifically crossing and inbreeding wolves. I can even give them a fancy name like Morphed Pale Eyed Wolves but it doesn't make any of those animals any less wild or dangerous. It takes hundreds, sometimes thousands of years to create a true domesticated animal and quite frankly, considering over 5 million domesticated animals are euthanized each year simply from a lack of homes I think we have PLENTY of already domesticated animals to choose from.

    I don't understand your last, and very baiting line, Hypocrites? I don't see how I'm a hypocrite and I certainly do learn from the truth (thus my stance on adoption, wild animals, etc).
    Last edited by VoodooJoint; 02-20-09 at 02:30 pm.
    Everyone has the right to make an ass out of themselves. You can't let the world judge you too much.

    Maude from Harold and Maude

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  24. #40
    Cavy Slave sophistacavy's Avatar
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    Re: What is Rescuing and Adopting

    This is unbelievable. Good luck VJ! I am 100% behind everything you've said thus far. Again, good luck. This might be a toughie.

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