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Simple Question

CBrewton5

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Most of this thread didn't even have anything to do with the original question, it turned more into a debate of other issues

Exactly which is not a positive point but rather a negative. The whole thing should have been dropped when she posted that she had the pig so the decision was made, but no it was turned into yet another 'let me tell you how to run you're business even though you've already made the choice' thing. The phrases that spring to mind are 'let sleeping dogs lie' and 'you're beating a dead horse'.

If I ask my husband if I look fat in my pants and he says yes, I have no right to be upset with him for answering.

Perhaps, ONCE. If however he kept on and on about how fat you looked, it turns from him being honest to him being punitive and just generally an ass. That's the difference here. She asked for an opinion, she got it and she made her decision.
 
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bleachmiracle

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I know I am jumping into this a little late, but it is difficult to keep up with these posts with so many members.

I have read numerous responses in this thread about the Pet Stores making profits off of their sales of live animals. I was looking to quote a member who said that the pet store could not have made a profit by selling the pig for $5, but I cannot seem to find it in all these pages.

My response to that is that most pet stores do not make a profit off their lives sales. For example, Petsmart sells most of their live animals for less than what they pay the breeders! A black bear hamster at Petsmart cost $22 from the breeder and they sell them for $19. A budgie costs them $25 and they sell them for $20. Plus they have to feed them and clean their cages for the time that they are in the store. So what do they make their money on? The supplies that go with the animals. So even if you do not buy animals from these places you are supporting the breeders. There is no way around it. These stores lose money by selling animals, but they gain it all back plus more from supplies.

I know that it has been said many times before, but I also know that many people think they make a profit on the sale of the animals.
 

Hansel

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Regardless if there is a profit made or not the people buying the animals are creating a demand, and in the cases of pet stores, the demand will be filled.
 

cavyinhawaii

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Didn't read entire thread. Sorry I retract my post.
 

standuprookie

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A black bear hamster at Petsmart cost $22 from the breeder and they sell them for $19. A budgie costs them $25 and they sell them for $20. Plus they have to feed them and clean their cages for the time that they are in the store. So what do they make their money on? The supplies that go with the animals. So even if you do not buy animals from these places you are supporting the breeders. There is no way around it.
Yes, there is a way around it. You can not shop there. Petsmart is not the only pet store their is, and there are other stores that do NOT sell animals and I choose to only shop at stores that don't sell animals, thus I am not supporting breeding, at all.
Also black bear hamster is a made up breed and does not exist. Pet store sell them under this name and that shows how little they know about the care of their animals.
 

Percy's Mom

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I think the point that bleachmiracle was trying to make was that no matter what you buy in a store that sells animals, you're supporting the breeders. You're both basically agreeing with each other on this point. She perhaps wasn't very clear.

The situation being illustrated though is yet another example of how petstores treat their animals like merchandise. ALL retailers make more money off of accessories instead of the main product. The animals in the case of any store that sells them is just a loss leader to pull you into the store to buy other "stuff".
 
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daftscotslass

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But I don't understand. I really don't. Save the one, that's fine. But what about the dogs and other animals in the same store. Are they less deserving of a home or do we try to "rescue" them too by making a purchase? Where does it stop? What about the rescue doomed to die that could have had a home but for the pet store purchase? A needless, horrible murder that lines the pocket of the pet shop, albeit for a small amount of money.

Of course we all know where the rescue animals come from - from backyard breeders, mill breeders sometimes with the pet store as the middle man. Most of these people/places sell their stock indiscriminately - it's no wonder they end up where they do. So, do we cut out the middle man by buying them straight from the supplier while ignoring those already in rescue?

I do not believe for one minute that this animal was going to be euthanised just because the store apparently decided to stop selling them. I believe that they were just waiting for some hapless soul to come along and listen to their sob story which worked with great effect.
 

bleachmiracle

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Percy's Mom got it right. I should have said there is no way around supporting breeders IF you buy supplies from stores that sell animals. Sorry for being unclear.
 

standuprookie

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Sorry bleachmiracle, When you said there is no way around it I took it the wrong way.
 
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salana

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If you had gone to a slave auction in the 1840s, would you have bought all the mistreated slaves, or fought for abolition?

If you give people a financial motive for continuing their unethical mistreatment of humans or animals, they're not going to stop.
 

Hansel

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Salana, that is a really good analogy.
 

bleachmiracle

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Sorry bleachmiracle, When you said there is no way around it I took it the wrong way.

No problem. I can see why. It was just a misunderstanding. I am not the best at typing what I am trying to say.
 
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standuprookie

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I don't walk pass them because I refuse to shop at stores that have them.

There are some ignorant racist still left out there but think back to the 50's, racism has severely decreased because people stood up for what they believed in and said "This isn't right!"
 

BabyGrl

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No matter how much it is tried to be accomplished, Pet Stores will never go out of business and neither will breeders. Just like racism will never stop. It is sad but true. For everyone that rescues an animal there is another buying from a breeder but to purposely walk passed a sick animal or abused animal and not rescue it if you can just to prove a point is heartless...just heartless.:weepy: >(

I am sure that at one time there were people who said that slavery would never end, or that women would never vote, yet both of those things have happened. Why? Because there were people who believed in it, just as a majority of the members at this site believe that buying an animal is wrong. Just because you think that something will never happen doesn't mean it won't. It just means you don't believe it is important enough to try.
 

salana

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I find it mildly offensive that you are calling all of us "heartless" because we are looking at the big picture and you do not wish to do so. If we were heartless, we wouldn't try to help animals at all.

Why do most petstores not sell dogs and cats anymore? Is it because people bought the pitiful little puppies to save them from the big bad pet store, or because they boycotted, wrote letters, and stood up against it?
 

CavySpirit

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Pet Stores will never go out of business and neither will breeders

You are dead wrong about that. Pet stores go out of business all the time. And when enough pressure is brought to bear in a variety of ways, they will stop selling animals. The same with breeders.

Almost always, buying a sick or poorly treated animal in a pet store is the immoral and lazy thing to do. The right thing to do is raise a stink about it in a variety of ways. It's sooo easy to pluck down your 5 or 25 bucks and feel good about 'rescuing' that animal. But, you just become an enabler and part of the institution for more sickness and death.

Actually, in this case, it's too difficult to assess the real outcome of the status of the sale of guinea pigs in this pet store. I don't think the original poster has an in-depth experience on dealing with pet stores or this particular pet store.

But, there is one circumstance in which I feel that getting a pig from a pet store is acceptable, and that is if that store is no longer going to be selling guinea pigs. But again, that means knowing INTIMATELY the management history and future status of that store. If you don't know the store owner and manager by name and have a history of activism with that store, odds of this situation happening are rare.

In the case where a store is going to stop selling guinea pigs because of pressure or economics, then I would step in to take any remaining guinea pigs if necessary. However, I would prefer that Animal Control be involved. Also, I would make sure a rescue organization is involved if at all possible, not just another customer who feels sorry for the animal. Would I pay for the animal/s? I have yet to have a situation where I would actually pay for them.

However, when it comes to 'getting' an animal from a pet store, under normal circumstances, I am just as against get an animal from a pet store if it is 'free' as I am if you pay for it. As has been pointed out, all small animals in pet stores are loss leaders. They are there to suck you into the store to buy the supplies. They do NOT make any money on the animals.

The problem with 'getting' an animal from a pet store is that the store turns around and orders more. IF that cycle is being broken, THAT is the most important thing. And of course, it goes without saying--although it sounds like some people just don't get it--you should NOT buy ANYTHING in a pet store that sells animals, unless you have an emergency situation.

And this topic has been hotly debated before as well. I recognize that once in a very great while, you might need something from a store and you might need to go a store near you that sells animals. What do you do? Well, you need to give yourself at least an hour. On the few rare occassions where this has happened to me, I always make sure I cost them more than they make on me and at the same time, force them to invest yet more time and resources on the animals in their care. I inevitably find one or many things wrong with the care of the animals or fish or whatever and insist and wait while they make changes, open supplies, fix things. I'm vocal about it and adamant. And I have the phone number of the local animal control on my cell phone speed dial in case I need to use it.

On the case of taking the absolute LAST of store's guinea pigs, IF that store is staying in business, but continuing to sell other animals, the store has to know WHY you are taking them and you have to remain an activist for the other animals as well. You CANNOT shop for any supplies in that store. Again, that is a given. But, I do not take such a black and white approach on not getting the last of the guinea pigs because we have to start somewhere. The HRS didn't not take their victory in the past of not selling rabbits in the stores because Petsmart was still selling guinea pigs. No. BUT, it helped us. The cat and dog people didn't say, hey it doesn't matter about cats and dogs because they are still selling guinea pigs. No. Likewise, I'll take any victory we can. But the real bottomline is you cannot support the store by buying any supplies from them. THAT is where they make their money.

And you stop the chain of breeding and death by NOT buying that animal in the store. You get off your lazy high horse and do something about it. It's a lot of work to do the right thing. You don't buy the animal. You call AC. You take photos. You write to the papers. You boycott. You get others involved. You wear t-shirts. You tell all the people you know about the issues. You put up flyers. But you do not support the business.

You can talk to me about being heartless when you've gone to look at the distributors and the breeders that are cranking out more pigs and more sickness and death to take the place of the one that you feel sorry for. I've put ALL of my money where my mouth is and I've been saying the same thing for years now. When you run out of money BUYING every poor pig in the window, then come and talk to me. Perhaps you don't see it, but your position is very defeatist and negative and far more hurtful to the animals than you realize. Your sentiment is misguided. I hope you come to understand the issues more fully.
 
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