Veg*n Vegetarism and Religion

[PiggieMamaKelly]

I am a Christian. I can't figure out why I am the only one of "my kind" that I personally know of. Most Christians believe what VJ just said, that God gave us dominion over the animals. Too me that means God put them in OUR care. So why would any Christian think God would be OK with humans treating animals as cruelly and unnaturally as the factory farming industry does?? My guess is: being vegetarian when you actually like meat is truly very hard and often people aren't willing to back up their philosophies with action.

 

[Bellebelle]

Yes, dominion over animals, therefore we eat them, great logic. I used to love meat, it was hard to make the switch but you can do it. Still, people need to make their own choice, I've always thought it's better to just say I don't wnat to, then all those other silly excuses.

Emma

 

[CBrewton5]

If you are wanting to use the "God gave us dominion over the animals" bit then here is the answer.

If that is true then we were given dominion, not told to eat them. I have dominion over my kids. I don't eat them.

That's fine, but yes that's what I meant. The question was why we were superior to the animals, not why we should eat them. We're superior because got gave us dominion over them, and to have dominion is to be in a superior position. I agree that *that* particular passage does not explain why the Bible says that it is OK to eat animals, and I'm not even suggesting that just because the Bible says it means EVERYBODY should listen to it. God gave us all free will, all of us, even non-Christians. Which means that everybody has the freedom of choice to do whatever they see fit. Some Christians, just like anybody else, will try to shove their opinions and beliefs down someone else's throat *in the name of God/what is right*......I'm not one of them. If God gave everybody free will why should I try to take it away?

 

[VoodooJoint]

to have dominion is to be in a superior position.

It is true that to have dominion over something is to be in a superior position but not necessarily superior.

I go back to my dominion over my children. I am in a suprior position but not actually a superior being.

People can read anything they want into religious text. Most of the world's greatest tragedies were carried out because someone only saw one translation or mistranslated something.

 

[kathrynj]

Yes but dominion to me does not mean 'superior'
Are we more important? No
We could also say that for example we have 'dominion' over babies and children, as we are to raise, guide and be responsible for them.
Are we more important than them? No
I am a Christian, a very passionate Christian and vegetarian for 20 or so years. Lately more Vegan, but I would never attempt to find scripture to 'prove' my choice.

 

[shortytheskatr]

Homeschoolmama: what were the references she showed?
I am a Baptist (Christian) but I definately eat meat. If God put animals on the planet just to look pretty and keep us company, then why did he put them here at all? He gave them to us so we could eat and survive off of them.
I read somewhere that we all need some source of red meat in our bodies for our red blood cells to work properly, etc. It just plays an important role.
Since I am a female body-builder at my high school, I have to eat red meat to keep my body healthy. If I just ate veggies and some eggs and peanut butter, I would be in bad shape! LOL

 

[HowietheGreat]

Can someone slam down the gavel before this turns ugly???? HA ha. Religion just cannot be brought up without someone, somewhere getting upset. Thank you T and VJ for your insight. Vj, I couldn't agree more.

 

[shortytheskatr]

I do not understand your comment. I don't see anyone getting upset! (At least I am not! hehe)
But I do have a question- does it take time for your body to get used to the fact it no longer has meat, or do you cut it all off at once? Just curious.

 

[VoodooJoint]

If God put animals on the planet just to look pretty and keep us company, then why did he put them here at all?

I could ask the same thing about humans. Why are we here at all? Is it just to eat the pretty animals?

I could ask it of trees, bugs, oceans, vines, rocks, gemstones, the stars in the sky... The list goes on and on.

Many of the things I can think of serve no valuable human purpose. If that is so then why are they here?

Didn't the God you speak of start us off in Eden? In Eden didn't we live in harmony with all things knowing no cold, hunger, pain or want of any kind? Didn't the first man and woman botch the whole thing and get kicked out? If any of that is true and if God created Eden as our "perfect" world and we only got kicked out because we wanted more then we needed then shouldn't we be striving to get back to an Eden like world? A world that God fearing people see as "perfect". A world where we live in harmony with animals and don't view them as food or clothing or items to consume and use in any way we desire?

Also, it has been proven that humans do not need to eat animal flesh of any kind to be healthy.

 

[shortytheskatr]

*Oh- I read what was up there- now I get what you said HowietheGreat*

 

[shortytheskatr]

God did not want Adam or Eve to eat the forbidden fruit because then they would be able to determine good from evil, and only God could do that. But He knew they would and so it was all part of His plan, etc. etc.
VJ, you are right about what you said above, but the only way for me to explain it is to recite all of Genesis to you, but that would take all day and this isn't a religious board! LOL

 

[shortytheskatr]

I just found this from a BBC HEALTH website: (Sorry- it's kinda long)

“A leading nutritionist has provoked controversy by suggesting people who do not eat red meat are risking their health.
The suggestion has been dismissed as flying the face of scientific evidence by vegan and vegetarian groups.
Professor Robert Pickard, director general of the British Nutrition Foundation, said a vegetarian diet was not natural for mankind.
Addressing a seminar of nutritionists at Stratford-upon-Avon, Professor Pickard said: "Man is an omnivore.
"Anyone thinking of restricting their diet by becoming a vegetarian is potentially taking risks with their health."
Professor Pickard said the gut contained a kilogram of bacteria to help digest the wide variety of food present in an omnivorous diet.
He said there was evidence that leaving the bacteria idle as a result of a restricted diet can make it easier for disease to take hold.
"Evolutionary science tells us that man emerged from an insect-eating group of mammals whose adaptability was greatly accelerated by the adoption of an omnivorous diet.
"Man's teeth, jaws and gut have evolved to deal with a mixture of meat and vegetables."
Third way diet
Professor Pickard said that this `third way' diet provided primitive man with a high-energy food intake making him a more effective species.
This gave him more time to think and stay ahead of competitor species.
"Meat should now play a central part in any person's diet.

"It provides iron for the blood, vitamin D for the bones, and proteins and fatty acids for growth.
"Its role has emerged as a result of million of years of evolution. It is also highly likely that red meat contains many other beneficial nutrients that we do not yet fully understand."

 

[VoodooJoint]

I have read Genesis many times. 12 years of Catholic School under my belt. I remember why A&E got kicked out, basically it breaks down to wanting more then they needed (yes, yes, against God's orders). I do not remember one thing about it being God's plan.

If you can post the quote where it specifically says that God's plan was to have A&E get kicked out of Eden then please post the quote or numbers.

If there is no quote like that then what you are saying is only a version of an interpretation.

 

[standuprookie]

If God put animals on the planet just to look pretty and keep us company, then why did he put them here at all?

Why did he put us here, so we could keep some of his creatures in horrible conditions, not just treating the animals badly and abusing them but also polluting the land, air, and water manure run-off.
As for the stuff about needing red meat for energy and stuff thats just bull, did you know Carl Lewis, a nine time Olympic gold medalist, is a Vegan.
Here is more info on Protein in a vegetarian diet.
TryVeg .com - A Guide to Vegetarian and Vegan Eating
TryVeg .com - A Guide to Vegetarian and Vegan Eating

 

[Susan9608]

I read somewhere that we all need some source of red meat in our bodies for our red blood cells to work properly, etc

I read some where that the earth is flat. I read some where that all blondes are stupid. I read some where that men are always right and women are always wrong.

Do you see the problem with believing everything you read?

Your body needs *iron* for your red blood cells to work properly, not red meat. You can find iron in all kinds of sources, like chick peas, bran flakes, spinach, beans, broccoli, avacados, and eggs. These are sources that are quite high in iron and quite low in things like fat, cholesterol, antibiotics, hormones, and pesticides - all the things you would find in a comparable serving of red meat.

If I just ate veggies and some eggs and peanut butter, I would be in bad shape!

You probably would be in bad shape, but not because of the lack of meat in your diet. You'd be in bad shape because the balance of that particular diet is sorely limited. Vegetarians do not live on vegetables with an occasional egg and peanut butter sandwich. Rather, vegetarians eat everything from vegetables to legumes to grains to pastas to meat analogs. The diet of a vegetarian can be richly varied and quite nutritious.

Since I am a female body-builder at my high school, I have to eat red meat to keep my body healthy

No one *needs* red meat to keep their body healthy, no matter what kind of athlete they are. Many of the healtiest, strongest individuals are individuals on a vegetarian diet. There are ample ways to obtain all the nutrients you need, including protein, fat, and iron, on a vegetarian diet.

All you need to have is an open mind and the ability to read and research.

Please, if you have never researched a vegetarian diet and/or don't know much about nutrition, don't tell others what they *need* to be healthy.

The ADA has endorsed a vegetarian diet as extremely healthy and beneficial.

 

[VoodooJoint]

Might I add that it's looking like the Democrats may be taking dominion of the House. If they get that dominion it doesn't mean they get to eat the Republicans.


*please lets not turn political now. This is only meant to be a humorous comparison.

 

[CavySpirit]

If they get that dominion it doesn't mean they get to eat the Republicans.

Dang!

 

[PiggieMamaKelly]

Actually I was a body builder myself at one time (amatuer of course). Although it would take some serious planning, it is certainly possible to be a vegetarian body builder. In fact there are numerous websites on the whole concept and how to go about it. Ever seen Kevin Eubanks from the Jay Leno show? He is a vegetarian body builder. Would you say he is in "bad shape"??

Shorty, have you researched the treatment of animals in the factory farming industry? If so, do you beleive that is the way God intended for humans to treat his creatures? And if you haven't researched, maybe you ought to.

PS- For every quote you dig up touting how fabulous eating meat is, there are 10 more speaking of the many health benefits of a vegetarian diet. You are aware of course of how many people in the US (a predominantly omnivorous country) are overweight or obese?? Could it be that too many "meat-eaters" pass up the veggie stir fry for the proverbial burger and fries??

 

[Slave to the Wheek]

. You are aware of course of how many people in the US (a predominantly omnivorous country) are overweight or obese?? Could it be that too many "meat-eaters" pass up the veggie stir fry for the proverbial burger and fries??

I was talking to some vegetarian's about that once. They told me that overweight vegetarian's are all too common.

Is that true?

 

[Sabriel]

Sure there are many overweight vegetarians, but those are the pople who eat only junk. Chips and cookies and candy. They would be overweight no matter the diet they chose.

But then there are vegetarians such as my self who eat healther and try new things when they get out of the meat + side dish = meal box.

If God put animals on the planet just to look pretty and keep us company, then why did he put them here at all?

I know I don't have a horse in this race, as it's not my theology we are talking about here, but this is my 2 cents:

The Goddess created the animals for the very same reason she created us: To learn, to live, to grow and eventually to die. To think that animals are just earthly decorations is to assume that she made us "better" then them. I think that's just ego. Just becuase we have "progress" does not make us better. In a lot of way it makes us terrible monsters. Look at what we are doing to the Earth. We are the only creatures to ravage it with our greed.

Go sit with some cats, listen to the dolphins, watch the deer. These creatures are more like us then you think. They have families, they have fears, the have hopes, they love, they grieve their fallen family, they help the sick, the list goes on.

I feel that the animals were ment to be our guides, our neighbours, our inspiration and our friends. Not a resource we can exploit untill it's ruined.

And I feel it's this human centric thinking that is respnsible for the shape the Earth is in today. If we though the animals were just is important as us, if we valued every rock, tree and creature, if we actually saw the Earth as a living breathing entitly, and entity that feels, then how could we go on like we do, with our SUVs and our slaughterhouses and our bull dozers and nuclear power plants? It's bad enough that we bomb people we have labeled "wrong" or "bad", but to destroy something innocent, to destroy something so pure would be impossible.

But we're doing it everyday. Everyday a little bit more of the Earth dies. And I wonder what we will do when She is lost?