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Thread: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

  1. #21
    Cavy Slave Sugar's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    I have never fed my guiena pigs frozen or canned foods before, but recently I have been wondering if I can. Thanks for the topic, its helpful. Maybe it could be pinned???

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    It is already pinned. That's why it is up here as a sticky.

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    Cavy Slave Guinea_Piggin's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Before I knew better, I used to feed AJ 9RIP) frozen peas. He LOVED them! Would play with them for a bit until they thawed enough, then eat 'em and beg for more.

    Don't worry, I know better now and my 2 current boys only get the freshest veg...nothing canned or frozen.

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    Cavy Slave _xcavyloverx_'s Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Hey
    I do feed my cavy fresh vegis evey now and then, but is this ok?

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    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator Ly&Pigs's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Quote Originally Posted by _xcavyloverx_ View Post
    Hey
    I do feed my cavy fresh vegis evey now and then, but is this ok?
    Fresh veggies are supposed to be fed daily, 1 cup of fresh veggies per pig. This thread is about canned/frozen veggies and really doesn't have anything to do with fresh veggies. Not sure why you asked that question here?

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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    What about veggies that comes in a bag? They come cut and everything are they good?

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    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator Ly&Pigs's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Fresh bagged veggies are ok. Frozen ones, NO. There are salad mixes, carrots, etc. that come in bags and as long as they are fresh and you wash them before feeding them, it's ok.

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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ly&Pigs View Post
    Fresh bagged veggies are ok. Frozen ones, NO. There are salad mixes, carrots, etc. that come in bags and as long as they are fresh and you wash them before feeding them, it's ok.
    Well yes, the bag I buy from local stores is the one that brings lettuce, carrots, and etc in pieces, but they are not frozen they are organized with the fresh ones but in the bag. So I guess its ok. Thanks

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    Cavy Slave danaspiggies's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    I have read that you should not feed the piggies gourmet food this is all my piggies will eat I have purchased the pellets and they will not touch it. Any advice why I should not feed them the gourmet food? They also get plenty of hay and carrots daily.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    It's too fattening and contains harmful ingredients. They can also choke on the seeds, nuts and colored bits.

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    Cavy Slave danaspiggies's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    I understand what you are saying but my piggies have never choked on them. How do i get them to eat just the pellets

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    Cavy Slave Coopdog's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    Try a different brand of pellets. My pigs turned their noses up at a store brand, but gobbled up the Oxbow ones. Timothy pellets are best for mature pigs. Here's the website to locate an Oxbow supplier near you:

    Oxbow Animal Health | Find Oxbow Products

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    Cavy Champion, Previous Forum Moderator Ly&Pigs's Avatar
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    Re: Can I feed Canned or Frozen Veggies?

    They also need a lot more veggies than just carrots daily. Carrots are more of a treat type veggie. They need lots of leafy greens. Please see the nutrition charts thread and the sample menu's thread. They are both sticky threads in the top of this forum section.

    Pellets are the least part of the pigs diet if you are feeding them a proper hay and veggie diet. I'd try another brand. Oxbow and KM's are two of the best pellets out there.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Canned Veggies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slave to the Wheek View Post
    Entire books are written on this very subject.
    I think the key issue is the breakdown of enzymes, this is something that is so important to good gastric health.
    There is a common misconception in the health food industry that we use the enzymes in plants for digestion. Enzymes are very species specific, and designed for a specific purpose. Each animal, plant, fungi etc. produces their own enzymes. Enzymes are a type of protein and are digested as such.

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    Cavy Slave princesspoppy's Avatar
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    Vegetables contain enzymes which are slowed down but destroyed during freezing. If not inactivated, these enzymes can cause color and flavor changes as well as loss of nutrients. (Michigan State University) I wouldn't eat frozen veggies let alone fed them to my pigs.

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    Cavy Slave
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    I don't think that you will find any!

    Modern farming methods often involve freezing vegatables at the site where they are grown. The nutritional content is therefore higher than ‘fresh’ vegetables that have been transported some distance and then sat around on the shelf in a store for a few days. Also ‘fresh’ vegetables have often, depending on the season, been stored in chilled rooms for days (maybe weeks I believe?)

    There is loss of ‘quality’ but that is subjective i.e. we don’t like soggy fruit/veg because it doesn’t have the customary ‘crunch’ or whatever. This is caused by ice crystal damage to the cells of the fruit/veg and has little to do with nutritional value. Pigs are able to make this subjective assessment for themselves too and might not eat the stuff, I don’t know.


    BUT this isn’t the only issue. When frozen food is thawed the bacteria (which have only been dramatically slowed down not stopped by the low temperature) start to multiply very rapid. That’s part of the reason for ’Once thawed do not refreeze’ instructions on frozen foods.

    It’s the bacterial content that I would be concerned about not the nutritional value. If you are looking for scientific evidence you may be best to read any literature on food spoilage and the bacteria that cause it (can’t think off the top of my head veg v. meat specific bacteria but I would guess that a gamut of nasty things E. Coli, Salmonella, botulism etc are possible on frozen veg). I’m fussy in the kitchen and I am really wary of frozen foods that are not for re-cooking i.e. fruits, ice cream cheesecakes etc.


    So...my thoughts are that if you find any scientific evidence it will show that it is both safe and nutritious to offer pigs cooked frozen veg.

    Would they eat it? Why would you want to feed it? Perhaps the answer would be 'in an emergency' - but my worry here is that it would be a sudden change in diet and that could cause problems in itself.

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    Cavy Slave akstrohm's Avatar
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    Here are a few reviews on the subject that might help you out. I've just listed the citations and abstracts. You can look up the articles on your own and read the rest if you would like:

    Lupien JR and Lin DX. 2004. Contemporary food technology and its impact on cuisine. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 13(2):156-61.

    This article contains a general review of current food technologies and their effect on the quality and safety of foods. The uses of these technologies in the context of current and projected world population, urbanization prevention of food losses, preservation and trade of foods, domestically and internationally are briefly reviewed. Technologies discussed are related to food storage, refrigeration, frozen foods, milling and baking, canning, pickling, extrusion processes, fermentation, and to foods and food ingredients such as fruits and vegetables, animal products, fat and oils, canned products, and food additives.

    Severi S, Bedogni G, Manzieri AM, Poli M, Battistini N. 1997. Effects of cooking and storage methods on the micronutrient content of foods. Eur J Cancer Prev. 6 Suppl 1:S21-24.

    Food processing has the potential to alter the nutrient quality of foods. This review deals with the effects of home-based cooking and storage practices on the micronutrient content of foods. It describes the effects of cooking, freezing and refrigeration on the vitamin and mineral content of meats, fish, fruit, vegetables and cereals. Based on this review, we suggest that the consumer should be aware of the possibility that losses in nutritional quality of foods may result from an improper use of cooking and storage techniques available at home.

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    Cavy Slave poopysmom's Avatar
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    I cannot say I have any authority in the subject, but it is part of what I am studying although its from my point of view as a chemist rather than as a nutritonist/dietician.

    The points that had been raised here has been quite accurate in terms of frozen vegetables.

    There is actually no harm in feeding your pets frozen vegetables. I think the major concern will actually be the water content than anything else. But then again, if you have the choice of feeding them fresh vegetables, why serve it frozen?

    Frozen vegetables had been on on the receiving end of alot of flak. Admittedly, it used to be true in the sense that technology then was not as advance as technology now. Frozen vegetables has come a long way from being really horrible to eat with to being actually acceptable palette wise.

    Lets look at vegetable from the chemistry point of view. Vegetables are technically categorised as Low GI carbohydrates, full of fibres in terms of cellulose and hemicellulose, beneficial vitamins especially water soluble vitamins and some minerals.

    Water soluble vitamins. Beside A,D,E,K which belongs to fat soluble vitamins, water soluble meant that it need water to transport, synthesize and store. The downside is also because it is water soluble, it will also be rapidly lost through loss of water.

    While certain water soluble vitamins are susceptible to oxidation like thiamin, the processes are different from those for the fat soluble vitamins. Processing medium or the environment is a critical factor in influencing the stability or retention of water soluble vitamins. Being water soluble, any processing and storage which increases the exposure of the vitamins to aqueous media will potentially lead to the leaching of the vitamins.

    The B’s vitamins like Biotin, Thiamin, free folic acid, pantothenic acid and Vitamin C are also lost more readily at alkaline pHs. Other chemical processing agents will also contribute to the destruction of vitamins. Biotin for example is readily oxidized in the presence of H2O2. presence of transition metals like Cu2+ and Fe3+ in processing water will catalyse the oxidative properties of ascorbic acid to dehydro-ascorbic acid and then further oxidized to diketoglulonic acid with loss of bio potency.

    Physical factors can also influence the loss of vitamins during processing and storage. EM radiation in the visible and near UV region is one such factor with riboflavin and pyridoxine two examples of vitamins that are photochemically degraded with attendant loss of vitamin potency. Temperature can also affect the loss of vitamins. Although certain vitamins like biotin and riboflavin are heat stable, but vitamin c, thiamin and folate for example are lost during heating.

    After all the mumble jumble, your vegetables, despite as one said require transportation, etc... as long as the vegetable remains whole, capsicum for example and you only prepare it when you want to eat it, you will be able to have the optimum nutritional value you can get from that capsicum.

    As mentioned, the vitamins are sensitive to transitional elements not just in the water but also to the point when you use your knife (the blade is metal) to cut through the vegetable, although minute, there will be an oxidation going on there.

    To sum it up, although the technology in freezing vegetables has improved leaps and bound, in terms of holding up to nutrition, it is still inferior when compared to fresh vegetables. So, technically, if you are feeding your pigs frozen vegs, you are basically feeding them empty calories. just plenty of fibres but without much nutrition.

    hope that helps.
    Last edited by poopysmom; 09-20-09 at 08:38 am.

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  21. #39
    Cavy Slave poopysmom's Avatar
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    also a quick note on ice crystals, depends on how long from the point you bought the frozen vegetables from the market back to your freezer. it will influence the amount of ice crystals in the frozen veg. from the manufacturer point of view, when they release the product, it may have only the minute amount of ice crystals in it, but each individual freezer is different, so by the time it reaches your freezer, and from sitting in there to the thawing... it will be different from person to person.

    Another point is that, most frozen vegetables are packed aseptically and the danger from microorganisms are about the same as eating fresh vegetables.
    Salmonella and Listeria being the biggest culprit. Botulism can only happened in canned food and vacuumed pack food btw because the bacteria that produces the botulinum toxin are anaerobic.

    The temperature that frozen veg are kept generally can destroys quite a number of bacterias except the spores producing ones.

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  23. #40
    Cavy Slave JD In Van's Avatar
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    Re: Scientific evidence concerning frozen veggies

    I grew up on a farm. My father's worked in agriculture my entire life, first in growing and then in other aspects of managing, selling, transporting, and handling grain and produce crops.

    What was posted above about bacteria is true, once unfrozen the bacteria begin to develop... though those same bacteria would have been far more developed by the time that food got to your door had it not been frozen.

    The nutritional content is for the most part largely intact though. As long as you do not defrost your food in the microwave. And THAT is the trick. The mircowave does destroy the nutrients of multiple foods including, including water soluable vitamins like Vit C. Instead, ideally defrost foods in your fridge (which is cold enough to keep any bacteria growth slow) or if they're to be consummed immediately, put them in a ziploc bag and emerse them in hot water in the sink.

    I wouldn't worry about the freezing. Humanity has used freezing to preserve and keep food safe forever. Worry about the radiation box on your kitchen counter that we're all so heavily dependant on.

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