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Nibbler's Medical Thread

PetFamilyBK

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Hey everyone, it’s been a little over a week since our senior pig of 5 1/2yrs (Nibbler) has completed his cycle of medication for a potential URI. The treatment appeared to be a success as he recovered rather quickly (no longer puffy in appearance, behavior improved, etc.). During the week of treatment he was averaging about 1059-1064g every morning with a little critical care supplementation of about 5ml morning/8ml nightly. We have a Ring camera set up at the cage to monitor his eating habits and chose not to offer more of the critical care because his appetite was back on track - we used it mostly to wash away the medicine although Nibbler seemed to really enjoy it.


Fast forward to this week, it seems like Nibbler’s weight has slipped a little and it’s concerning me again:
6/21: 1062g
6/22: 1056g
6/25: 1031g
6/26: 1021g


He is always given fresh hay (Oxbow Hay Blend) 4-5x a day and pellets (Oxbow Garden Select) daily as well. He certainly has no problems eating his treats or vegetables (bell peppers, baby carrots, and some kale as of late).


Based on what I see eating-habitwise he seems to be becoming more selective of the hay. He appears to be spending more time digging through a nice big pile for the pieces he wants. Could it be that I’m over-indulging him with too much fresh hay, or could this be because of his increased pickiness due to old-age? Could it be because of a bad batch/batches of hay? I’ve seen pieces of plastic in the bag and it also seems to be more on the dustier side as of late. Anyways, I feel like I’m going through bags of 90oz hay for 2 pigs in 3-4 days time now.


Hell, I’ve even bought different types of hay to try out (Botanical, Meadow Grass, etc.) but he seems to have no interest in those at all. Just last night I gave him a small section of Oat hay and I was surprised to see him pick at it for the first time.

He seems to really enjoy his pellets, especially after hours – which got me thinking after reading one of the posts on here, that maybe I should scale back on the pellet portion or remove them after some time to give him the need to forage more for hay. Is this a good idea?



Although there is a drop in weight, his poops are relatively normal in size, shape, and color. They can be slightly smaller in the morning but get bigger generally as the day goes on. I figure to mention that he still has not been re-introduced to his “no longer new” cage mate, Owl/Owlie as they both share a 2x4 grid fleece enclosure split down the middle. Could he be feeling crammed? Bored?


I’m open to any suggestions, thoughts, and even others’ past experiences!


Thanks!
 
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bpatters

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

Senior pigs do gradually lose weight, but he may not be at that point yet. Most start around six years of age, and lose a little, plateau, lose a little more, plateau, etc. You can give him a vitamin C supplement to see if it helps.

A four square foot cage is half the recommended size for a pig. Is there any reason he's not living with your other boar in a larger cage?

An adult pig should get no more than 1/8 cup of pellets per day.

The quality of the hay can definitely be a problem, and buying hay in small bags at the local store gets you the worst possible quality of hay for a much higher price than buying it in other ways. The cheapest way is to buy hay from a local supplier if you can find one. Even if you throw 3/4 of the bale away, you'll still spend far less on hay than what you're spending now.

The second best way is to get it from an online supplier such as Small Pet Select, American Pet Diner, etc. While quire a bit more expensive than local hay, it's still less than half the cost of small bags from a pet store.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

Hi, we split up the boars because Nibbler was on the antibiotics for URI immediately after going through the bonding phase. I guess you can say it was a quarantine if you will. We were looking to reintroduce them and remove the divider on Friday but with the weight loss we were curious if that would be a good idea. I think maybe we’ll do it tomorrow anyways and just see how it goes again.

I’ll cut back on the pellets as he’s getting a little over a 1/4 cup, and will look into a more large scale supplier.
Do you think the vitamin c from the bell peppers isn’t enough?
 

ItsaZoo

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

Did he have any reaction to the antibiotic? That usually happens after a few days, but antibiotics can mess with digestion and appetite.

Although peppers and the pellets have vitamin C, it’s still a good idea to supplement. Mine loves the Oxbow Natural Science wafers.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

Hi! As far as we could tell, no negative reaction to the antibiotics and Metacam as his poops looked to be of the ideal type and his behavior was back to normal. He actually couldn’t wait until I pulled out the medicine as he was practically throwing his mouth on the syringe. I bought BeneBac probiotic gel just in case but haven’t used it yet as it looked like everything was going well during the treatment and his fecal results from the vet were negative of any issues. I’m thinking of maybe giving it a try but I’ve never done it before and not even sure how much to administer.

I’ve seen those Natural Science Vitamin C wafers at Petco and was thinking to get them, but never did. I’ll pick up a bag today and offer the wafers as treats. He usually jumps to the grid at any sort of bag crumbling so I’m sure he’ll have no trouble eating it.
 

bpatters

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

You don't have to split pairs of pigs because one is on an antibiotic. Anything one has the other has been thoroughly exposed to by the time you figure out he's sick.

Don't just remove the divider. You need to reintroduce them as though they've never seen each other before, and put them back in a thoroughly cleaned cage that has nothing in it that smells like either pig. See https://guinealynx.info/introductions.html.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

You don't have to split pairs of pigs because one is on an antibiotic. Anything one has the other has been thoroughly exposed to by the time you figure out he's sick.

Don't just remove the divider. You need to reintroduce them as though they've never seen each other before, and put them back in a thoroughly cleaned cage that has nothing in it that smells like either pig. See https://guinealynx.info/introductions.html.

So the thing is they have been together for a good 2-3 days before the antibiotics kicked in, then they were split up using a cage grid divider so they can still see and smell each other as well as squeak to each other. Since that is the case, you’re saying it would it be good to reintroduce them together on a clean set of fleece in their undivided home? Or someway else? Like another larger setup that would not be their home?
 

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Re: Senior Boar & Weight Loss (Eating Habit Changes)

The general accepted way to do it is in a neutral area that neither pig is familiar with. Once introductions have gone well, then you can transfer them to their new home ( in this case their current home) but it needs to have undergone cleaning so that there are no scents from either, or any other pig in it. This way it's "new" to both of them.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Old Man Nibbler (Sick Again) - Gas, Bloat, Inappetence, or Other?!

Hi all! We’re back at it again with our old man Nibbler.
Around 3:30PM this afternoon we noticed Nibbler puffed up and lying flat/fat in a pile of hay outside his hit and against the side of his cage. He had looked and acted his usual self all morning and so we were certainly caught by surprise by this odd behavior. Being able to work from home I’m practically checking on him every 2 hours and knew something was off.

The indoor temps were at 70.5 F (and is usually kept at 68-77 - we use a space heater to keep their temps in check during NYC winter). We thought that maybe something else could have been bothering him but weren’t able to see anything ourselves. He was uninterested in food and treats at this time, but had been given an Oxbow treat about 60-90mins prior so maybe he was generally uninterested. My wife said that there were 3 poops bunched up in his butt that she pulled out, and so I was thinking maybe he puffed up due to discomfort, but we we took no chances and brought him to his exotic vet.

While in the car ride, he didn’t look puffy and was moving around anxiously due to the bumpiness of the ride - but also let out about 10 good shaped poops. I was happy to see this!

While at the vet, Nibbler (nearly 6yo) weighed in at 1.1KG (2.42LB). He looked relatively good during his physical exam but she did say he felt a bit distended, and so we took some x-rays. Results showed he appears to have some gas buildup and such could be causing him some discomfort but the x-rays will be forwarded to a radiologist for more info (the results should come tomorrow). We discussed a few treatment options, one being that maybe he self-regulated himself as he successfully passed good looking stool, but this was a very hopeful approach. Ultimately, we went for some IV fluids and were given Metacam (anti-inflammatory) at .14ml 1x a day for 5 days, and Sulfatrim .65 ml 2x a day for 7 days, however, the plan is to only administer Sulfatrim if we aren’t seeing signs of improvement in the next day or two. My fear is that I don’t want to overly medicate him if Nibbler improves on his own or with the Metacam Basically, I requested to pick it up the Sulfatrim early as we may not be able to travel back out to the vet due to the holidays. We have critical care on hand and plan on doing a brief feeding with his first dose of Metacam tonight.

Once we got home, we cleaned out his cage and gave him (and his cage mate Owlie) fresh sleeping towels and hay. Nibbler picked at it a little but appeared tired from the IV and trip and was mostly resting. He has not looked puffy since we first saw him. He’s also reacting to our “treat sounds” running up to the cage and biting it. He looks to be laying down in more comfortable “stylish” positions like his old self, and not like when we first found him looking ill.

We’re in a tough predicament being that we feel we may have caught something early or maybe it was something minor/self-regulating. I’ve posted some photos of him looking puffy, his poop from the car ride, and when he got home; along with photos of him in the car and laying down after the vet like he’s posing for GQ.

Here’s his general feeding plan:
  • Oxbow Vit C tablet in the AM
  • Fresh generous handfuls of Oxbow Hay Blends 4-5x per day
    • Although, during the last 2 days we had to grab smaller (dustier) bags from the pet store as the 90oz bags are out of stock. I try to filter as much as I can.
  • During the last week, I have been adding in a handful of Oxbow Oat Hay for variety purposes.
  • Daily Veggies have consisted of 1-2 baby carrots, slices of green peppers
    • Arugula 3x a week & a cherry tomato 1-2x a week
      • Previous week kale and romaine lettuce was rotated in with the others
  • 1/6 cup of Oxbow Garden Select Pellets given at night through the next day

I’ll keep posting progress, and hope he can beat this whatever it is! If anyone has any advice, we’re all ears!
Thanks and Happy Holidays!
 

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bpatters

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Re: Old Man Nibbler (Sick Again) - Gas, Bloat, Inappetence, or Other?!

[MENTION=44961]PetFamilyBK[/MENTION], you get ONE medical thread per pig. Please keep all posts to that thread.

I'll merge this one with your other thread.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Hi Bpatters, sorry and thank you!
 

PetFamilyBK

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Re: Old Man Nibbler (Sick Again) - Gas, Bloat, Inappetence, or Other?!

We’ve received the X-rays and corresponding results:

HISTORY -
Consult Type: MVRFILM INTERP 1-8 IMAGES, SIG: DOB: 20151224, Age: 6 Y, Sex: M UNALTERED, Wt: 1.1kg, Breed: guinea pig, Species: SMALL MAMMAL, Images: 2, Case Details: O noticed P was puffed today, seemed better by exam. Discussed possible GI stasis, treated supportively for now (SQ fluids, metacam, sulfatrim)

FINDINGS -
Ventrodorsal and right lateral radiographs of the majority of the thoracic and abdominal and pelvic regions dated December 23, 2021 are provided for review.
The stomach is very gas-distended and also contains some fluid and soft-tissue opaque material, consistent with recently ingested food. The cecum is filled with ingesta and gas. The small bowel segments are mildly to moderately dilated with fluid and gas.
Mild to moderate bronchointerstitial pulmonary changes are present more notable in the caudal lung lobes. No other thoracic changes are notable.
Incidental findings include small osteophytes and intra-articular mineralization associated with the stifle joints bilaterally.

CONCLUSION -
Gas distention of the stomach could be secondary to a functional ileus or aerophagia from struggling or dyspnea. Full cecum consistent with a recent normal appetite.
Bronchointerstitial pulmonary changes could be due to atelectasis caused by poor lung inflation related to abdominal distention limiting full lung inflation, and/or respiratory tract inflammation or infection or less likely pulmonary fibrosis.
Incidental moderate chronic stifle degenerative joint disease.
 

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Guinea Pig Papa

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That's one very bloated piggie. How is he doing now? Hopefully improved?
 

PetFamilyBK

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That's one very bloated piggie. How is he doing now? Hopefully improved?

He’s looking much better (no puff), and weighing around the same. Eating pellets, hay and drinking on his own, but I’m supplementing with 2-4g of critical care after administering medication to wash out the taste (although he actually seems to not mind it).

I cut out all veggies from his diet temporarily in case he had something that upset him recently but he doesn’t have diarrhea and his stool looks normal - which I figured would cause the gas. I am also supplementing his diet with Oxbow Vit C (this had been given daily since the last time he got sick) and just yesterday began Oxbow Joint Support (as it has anti-inflammatory benefits that I believe would help. I’m tying to give him belly rubs, but he moves around too much and doesn’t like it all too much.

I’m going to increase his BeneBac Probiotic this morning to .5g x2 daily and hope that will alleviate his bloat.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I’ll spend much of time browsing there forums anyways. Thanks!
 

Guinea Pig Papa

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I have heard that bloat in a pig can be a symptom of bladder stones. I would ask if you have had recent xrays but you obviously have.

The only suggestion I might have, is to have more radiographs taken soon, after the bloat has subsided.

The reason I suggest this, is my boy Scooter had issues with bloat in the last month of or so his life. He had radiographs taken just like your boy. You can see it here:

https://www.guineapigcages.com/forum/threads/121866-Scooter-s-medical-thread/page7

You can see no stones present in that picture.

I lost him a month later, due to a bladder stone lodging in his urethra.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Hey Pig Papa, thanks for the tips, and reference to Scooter’s thread. It’s heartbreaking reading this stuff, but comforting to know you put your heart and soul into caring for them. I will certainly reach out to the vet and discuss taking further X-rays later on, it can be expensive here in NYC and have been to the vets multiple times this year for all my pets. The report doesn’t reference any stones but maybe it is blocked from the angles or bloat (I don’t know anything about X-rays and at their judgement).

He’s eating more on his own and drinking on his own, maybe showing signs of his old self. His stomach feels a little softer and looks a little less bloated but I honestly don’t know what I'm actually looking for. He had a nice thick perfectly shaped poop just as I gave him his antibiotics. It looks like he’s hydrated and doing everything we can ask of.
 

PetFamilyBK

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Nibbler appears to be doing really well. Weighed in at 1084g this morning (par for the course) and was spotted foraging hay a few times after midnight and into the dark morning hours. I feel he doesn’t do much of that and often stays in and around his hidey eating only nearby hay and pellets - perhaps it’s his age/eyesight, but his younger cagemate has no issue after hours.

I gave him a brief belly massage and could’ve sworn I heard and felt a piggy fart! It was faint and fast, and being that he was on my chest, i think I felt his butt open up. Lol! I think he’s also letting out some air from the mouth as I’m hearing something but it’s hard to describe. Maybe I’m imagining it. He feels less bloated, but that’s subjective. I’ll have my wife check him out and see what she says. I’m having second thoughts on his diet, and thinking that maybe he’s ingesting air when he eats his vegetables. We sometimes hand each of them a select pepper slice or carrot, but often times they eat out of the same bowl and he’s off to the races. I might divvy up the servings into even smaller portions.

Anyways, today is his last day on Metacam, but still 4 more days of Sulfatrim. I’m not sure if I should stop the Sulfatrim as he’s doing well. Maybe I’ll just stick with probiotics and belly rubs for now. I’ll reach out to the vet and see what she says. Perhaps she’ll advise me to stick with the antibiotics a little longer in case it is actually fighting something off and needs more time to rid it. (I’m not good with medication at all).
 

PetFamilyBK

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Ugh, I hate to have to reply to Nibbler’s thread out of the blue, things were looking great for him from his Christmas Eve recovery up until this afternoon today. He was his usual self this morning, but my wife again came home from work to see him puffed. He had left behind some abnormally shaped poops in his house - small/peanut shaped (thin in the middle), and a few small round pieces (I’ve attached photos). This is certainly odd considering his weight remained a constant 1050-1065g and has been eating his hay and pellets, as well as drinking without any issues. My guess is that he had eaten something bad vegetable-wise perhaps a day or 2 ago and it’s coming out now but that is all speculation. We got a good video of him laying down trying to be comfortable but lifting up his leg as if he was experiencing discomfort or pain..

My wife had picked him up to check him out and he did not look good at all laying down in her arms very sickly. A sight we have seen before and do not want to see again. I figured he was due for his dose of probiotics anyways (.5ml is what we give) so we gave it and based on the poop we also gave him 3ml of critical care just for precaution. We reached out to the vet and awaited a call back; we gave Nibbler a stomach massage to stimulate or release any sort of gas if possible. A few minutes after the massages another odd poop came out - it was pill shaped and near-regular sized but instead of it being glossy/wet like it usually is, it was sticky and looked like some strands of fiber can be seen around the outside. I forgot to take a picture of this one… stupid!

Anyways, our vet called back and said that since we have the Metacam, we can offer .14ml like we had before, she advises against the Sulfatrim for now. She did suggest that maybe we can purchase Simethicone for infants without any pain ingredients and offer .3ml to aid with the bloating. We haven’t administered it yet but we did purchase. Based on what he’s experiencing should we do it? His poops since returning him back to his enclosure are closer to normal. A weird observation - sometimes his poops are only rounded at one end, and slightly indented on the other.

Could he be dehydrated? A bad vegetable? The only different vegetable I’ve given was a small cherry tomato 2 days ago.

As always, words of advice, experiences, and thoughts are always appreciative. Thanks!
 

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PetFamilyBK

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He doesn’t seem to be interested in hay, and only wants to lay down. We’ve given him another 3ml of Critical Care now, but thinking we’re going to need to give more if he doesn’t start eating again soon. He’s also not interested in his syringe feeding like he was during his last illness. I hope he has more fight left in him.
 

PetFamilyBK

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The rollercoaster continues. Prior to me going to bed, Nibbler received 7.5ml of CC between 2-2:30AM. I was able to monitor his behavior overnight as I had the camera set up on him, and to my surprise he was eating some hay on his own (but only hay I placed in his house). Woke up at 6:30am and took out their houses to check on the poops and they looked better, fuller, but still with some slightly pointy tips (see pic of 3 poops lined up next to a quarter). Nibbler didn’t look puffy and was active immediately. He ran out to eat hay from the piles outside his house, drank some water, and even ran to bite the cage when he heard the Vit C bag crumble (he ate the whole thing). Once he started settling down, I supplemented with 4ml of CC once offered about .5-.75ml of water to wash it down at the end, although I make my slurries a little watery to be able to use the standard 1cc syringe.

Now here’s the strange thing, after the 2nd 3ml CC feeding and .6ml of probiotics at 1PM, he let out an unshapely poop with some blood on it. I broke it up on a tissue to see further but what do I know (see attached pic as well). He followed up that poop with 2 regularly shapes ones. About an hour later, he pooped again but this time no blood was present but mucous-y/bubbly (pic attached). He followed that up with 2 decently shaped and sized poops, but a little slimy.

We have not yet started the Simethicone as we were going to observe his behavior today but now we’re considering it due to the ups and downs. It was around this time yesterday that he started to go down hill so maybe this all expected, especially if he stopped eating? Anybody have experience with Simethicone and gripe water?

Could the one instance of blood be due to dehydration at the time of taking metacam or probiotics on an upset stomach?

Thanks!
 

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